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Leftist Ivy League university Princeton says that life begins at fertilization.

abortion doesnt stop out of wedlock births
You must be admitting you were wrong since you changed the subject. If abortions are made illegal and stopped, adoption cannot handle all the given up children. It isn;t now, would then.

As far as your comment about wedlock births. Not all unmarried women who are pregnant will seek an abortion.
 
You must be admitting you were wrong since you changed the subject. If abortions are made illegal and stopped, adoption cannot handle all the given up children. It isn;t now, would then.

As far as your comment about wedlock births. Not all unmarried women who are pregnant will seek an abortion.
then where was the epidemic before it was legal?
 
If only it were "life" or "heartbeat" but we're talking Mercedes or Prada instead - and all the other lifestyle trappings that women think are vastly more important than children.
Enjoying sex responsibly is a 'lifestyle trapping?' :rolleyes: It's a wonderful thing to share that should not be...and is not...denied to American adults.

Is making sure you are alive and healthy to care for your family, your dependents, keeping your job, maintaining the ability to live in a safe place, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Is not risking your ability to uphold your commitments and obligations to family, church, employer, community, society, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Please let me know...yes or no? For most people, these are the essential activities, responsibilities, and obligations of their lives and are very meaningful. It may be different for you of course. Let me know.
 
It is sad that children are seen a disposable nuisances. Disposable nuisances are the result of making abortion so difficult to get that it is essentially banned. If there were more abortions there would be fewer unwanted children. It's hypocritical to limit abortions then complain about too many badly treated children.

Um, a flower is also a life....it starts the moment the seed is planted in the ground...but the life is not an independent one until it is actually viable...
Enjoying sex responsibly is a 'lifestyle trapping?' :rolleyes: It's a wonderful thing to share that should not be...and is not...denied to American adults.

Is making sure you are alive and healthy to care for your family, your dependents, keeping your job, maintaining the ability to live in a safe place, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Is not risking your ability to uphold your commitments and obligations to family, church, employer, community, society, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Please let me know...yes or no? For most people, these are the essential activities, responsibilities, and obligations of their lives and are very meaningful. It may be different for you of course. Let me know.
Wn
Enjoying sex responsibly is a 'lifestyle trapping?' :rolleyes: It's a wonderful thing to share that should not be...and is not...denied to American adults.

Is making sure you are alive and healthy to care for your family, your dependents, keeping your job, maintaining the ability to live in a safe place, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Is not risking your ability to uphold your commitments and obligations to family, church, employer, community, society, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Please let me know...yes or no? For most people, these are the essential activities, responsibilities, and obligations of their lives and are very meaningful. It may be different for you of course. Let me know.
Enjoying sex responsibly is a 'lifestyle trapping?' :rolleyes: It's a wonderful thing to share that should not be...and is not...denied to American adults.

Is making sure you are alive and healthy to care for your family, your dependents, keeping your job, maintaining the ability to live in a safe place, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Is not risking your ability to uphold your commitments and obligations to family, church, employer, community, society, a 'lifestyle trapping?'

Please let me know...yes or no? For most people, these are the essential activities, responsibilities, and obligations of their lives and are very meaningful. It may be different for you of course. Let me know.

Enjoying sex "responsibly"? That's a laugh. If women were capable of doing that there'd be little need for abortions.
 
Enjoying sex "responsibly"? That's a laugh. If women were capable of doing that there'd be little need for abortions.
My my somebody hates women. Or knows nothing about them.

And esp. knows nothing about birth control...none works 100% of the time...and Americans like to have lots and lots of sex.

Do you believe that's wrong? Oh well, your loss then.

Here's some reality:

1601366859488.png

The new format takes my OneNote content and turns it into an image but I can produce the sources for the bc usage.

Do you still claim that couples (um yeah, there are 2 people involved and responsible for bc) are mostly irresponsible when they have sex? If so, why? And I'm not esp. interested in your moralizing about adults enjoying and sharing sex. It's a great thing, why should people miss out?

And I noticed you couldnt answer my question about the responsibilities, obligations, commitments in a person's life being 'lifestyle trappings.' Are they? Or not?
 
My my somebody hates women. Or knows nothing about them.

And esp. knows nothing about birth control...none works 100% of the time...and Americans like to have lots and lots of sex.

Do you believe that's wrong? Oh well, your loss then.

Here's some reality:

View attachment 67296954

The new format takes my OneNote content and turns it into an image but I can produce the sources for the bc usage.

Do you still claim that couples (um yeah, there are 2 people involved and responsible for bc) are mostly irresponsible when they have sex? If so, why? And I'm not esp. interested in your moralizing about adults enjoying and sharing sex. It's a great thing, why should people miss out?

And I noticed you couldnt answer my question about the responsibilities, obligations, commitments in a person's life being 'lifestyle trappings.' Are they? Or not?

The abortion rate and the reasons given for wanting an abortion fly in the face of the claim that people are being "responsible".
 
The abortion rate and the reasons given for wanting an abortion fly in the face of the claim that people are being "responsible".
Responsibility does not end at a single act. It also is not the same for everyone, for their circumstances. You judge responsibility purely off your beliefs, your bias. They are not in your circumstances or hold your beliefs. For them, abortion may very well be the responsible thing to do.

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The abortion rate and the reasons given for wanting an abortion fly in the face of the claim that people are being "responsible".
That's a silly statement after the data and reasoning I just posted.

If you think people will stop having sex, period, it's a ludicrous, even irrational idea. And so people having sex and using bc are doing so responsibly. If you disagree, see prior sentence.

1601409590681.png

^^ Previously posted obviously, but brings the point home. To be so obtuse as to believe people behaving responsibly *are not* just because you dont care for the results of those actions is not rational. I guess you believe that all car accidents are irresponsible too? (Perhaps it's the word 'accidental' that keeps tripping you up? Regarding driving and abortion?) Or maybe you really do believe all people should stop driving too?
 
Responsibility does not end at a single act. It also is not the same for everyone, for their circumstances. You judge responsibility purely off your beliefs, your bias. They are not in your circumstances or hold your beliefs. For them, abortion may very well be the responsible thing to do.

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Like fleeing the scene of a hit and run "accident" because you'd go to prison for DUI and who would be there to support the family?
 
That's a silly statement after the data and reasoning I just posted.

If you think people will stop having sex, period, it's a ludicrous, even irrational idea. And so people having sex and using bc are doing so responsibly. If you disagree, see prior sentence.

View attachment 67297047

^^ Previously posted obviously, but brings the point home. To be so obtuse as to believe people behaving responsibly *are not* just because you dont care for the results of those actions is not rational. I guess you believe that all car accidents are irresponsible too? (Perhaps it's the word 'accidental' that keeps tripping you up? Regarding driving and abortion?) Or maybe you really do believe all people should stop driving too?

There was no "reasoning" to your posting and the numbers are meaningless. One look at the CDC website on abortions will prove that. Most abortions don't result from "accidents" they result from irresponsible behavior. Based on your reasoning of how meaningful sex is by the very nature of it - then prostitutes are the most "bonded" group of people on the face of the planet (along with people like Madonna and Miley Cyrus). IF it's so "bonding" then why is "got pregnant with the wrong man" ever given as a reason for an abortion? That reason is way up there on the list of reasons for abortions and what does it even mean? Abortions really make women look careless and stupid and even weak. We know how to prevent pregnancy these days. If a woman doesn't want a baby she can prevent it. If birth control failure rates was even remotely close to the abortion rate - all those companies providing birth control would be out of business. When was the last lawsuit you recall of someone suing such a company for producing a defective product? America is the land of lawsuits - you'd think if that level of failure was accurate there wouldn't be daily headline lawsuits?
 
There was no "reasoning" to your posting and the numbers are meaningless. One look at the CDC website on abortions will prove that. Most abortions don't result from "accidents" they result from irresponsible behavior.
Let's see your source please.

(And your declaration that my numbers are meaningless is meaningless unless you can demonstrate why/how :rolleyes:. It's just another dodge from you. )
 
Like fleeing the scene of a hit and run "accident" because you'd go to prison for DUI and who would be there to support the family?
Not even close to comparable, since that actually has consequences for others with families. And, since illegal, when caught, it would be worse for you than simply being there.

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...... We know how to prevent pregnancy these days. If a woman doesn't want a baby she can prevent it.

You are right we do know how to prevent pregnancy and women's contraceptives have a low rate of failure. The IUD failure rate is less than 1%, implanted hormones failure about 2%, sterilization failure (tied tubes) about 2% and the pill about 8%. The problem is 75% of women who get abortions are at or below the poverty line. Some may have Medicaid or state programs to help pay for contraception. In many states the IUD and implants are not funded because of the expense or because they have been declared abortifacients Most states will not pay for sterilization. That leaves the pill which must be taken correctly to be effective. For low wage working women who have no insurance, Medicaid or state aid the situation is grim. PP can often help find funding but one has to have access to a clinic and many states are making PP shut down.

For the above reasons most poor women rely on male controlled birth control (condoms, withdrawal and rhythm) which have a failure rate of 18% to 25%. This means there are going to be unwanted pregnancies even if everybody is taking precautions. Are some couples irresponsible. Sure they are. But who gets punished if irresponsible couples become irresponsible parents.
 
You are right we do know how to prevent pregnancy and women's contraceptives have a low rate of failure. The IUD failure rate is less than 1%, implanted hormones failure about 2%, sterilization failure (tied tubes) about 2% and the pill about 8%. The problem is 75% of women who get abortions are at or below the poverty line. Some may have Medicaid or state programs to help pay for contraception. In many states the IUD and implants are not funded because of the expense or because they have been declared abortifacients Most states will not pay for sterilization. That leaves the pill which must be taken correctly to be effective. For low wage working women who have no insurance, Medicaid or state aid the situation is grim. PP can often help find funding but one has to have access to a clinic and many states are making PP shut down.

For the above reasons most poor women rely on male controlled birth control (condoms, withdrawal and rhythm) which have a failure rate of 18% to 25%. This means there are going to be unwanted pregnancies even if everybody is taking precautions. Are some couples irresponsible. Sure they are. But who gets punished if irresponsible couples become irresponsible parents.

So your answer is poor people are stupid and will always be stupid? Mmmmmmmmmmkay. That's one way to assure they stay on the government teat.
 
Not even close to comparable, since that actually has consequences for others with families. And, since illegal, when caught, it would be worse for you than simply being there.

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No consideration is given to the family of the father of the baby who is terminated. So, yeah, other families are involved.
 
So your answer is poor people are stupid and will always be stupid? Mmmmmmmmmmkay. That's one way to assure they stay on the government teat.


Having a(nother) child is a surefire way for those people to stay on the govt. teat.
 
Having a(nother) child is a surefire way for those people to stay on the govt. teat.

Yeah, too bad their right to spread leg far supersedes the need to educate them.
 
Too bad anti choicers don't like women who enjoy sex.

There's no better way to have toe-curling, leg shaking, earth quaking sex that to have responsible sex - with a responsible sex partner. You should try it sometime.
 
So your answer is poor people are stupid and will always be stupid? Mmmmmmmmmmkay. That's one way to assure they stay on the government teat.
That comment is ugly, stupid and untrue. It may be how you think about the poor, but it is not what I said, implied or had any intention of being interpreted.

I didn't say anything about staying on welfare. The fact is that women's contraceptives and abortion help keep women and families from going into deeper poverty.

Did you have a reason for this post or do you just enjoy being gratuitously foul.
 
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