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Left Loses Big in Citizenship Verification Supreme Court Case

LowDown

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An interesting take on this Arizona case, which had right wingers gnashing their teeth. If this is correct there will be citizenship checks after all:

Those complaining about the opinion don’t understand what the Left’s goals were in this case: total federal preemption, and on that score, Justice Scalia foiled them. On that score, the decision today was a huge war won, even if the small Arizona battle was lost.

...The Left wanted state power stripped and they lost.

First, Arizona can simply push the state forms in all state offices and online, and keep those federal forms in the back room gathering dust. When you submit a state form, you have to prove citizenship. Thanks to Justice Scalia, that option is perfectly acceptable. Loss for the Left. Victory for election integrity.

You might say, “That’s a small victory.” Nonsense. This was the whole ballgame to the groups pushing the Arizona lawsuit. They lost, period.

Next, when voters use a state, as opposed to a federal, form, they can still be required to prove citizenship. The federal form is irrelevant in that circumstance.

After the decision today, states have a green light to do double- and triple-checking even if a registrant uses the federal form. The Left wanted the submission of a federal form to mean automatic no-questions-asked registration. This is a big loss for the Left because now states can put suspect forms in limbo while they run checks against non-citizen databases and jury-response forms. Another significant victory in today’s decision. The Left wanted to strip them of that double-checking power.
Rule of Law » Left Loses Big in Citizenship-Verification Supreme Court Case
 

Paschendale

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That's what matters, right? That the left loses. Who cares about what's good for the country, or what kinds of laws best uphold our values. Nope. Just gotta beat those lefties.

Also apparently you're doing a victory dance because you stopped the left wing from doing something it was never trying to do. Good for you? This kind of nonsense where the right wing of this country is fighting against an invisible enemy and hurting everyone in the process is why we can't have nice things.
 

mak2

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Someone on this fourm told me partisanship kills brain cells (or words to that effect), I do beleive that.
 

Kanstantine

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If Conservatives could they would bring back the Poll Tax.
 

American

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Eighty Deuce

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That's what matters, right? That the left loses. Who cares about what's good for the country, or what kinds of laws best uphold our values. Nope. Just gotta beat those lefties.

Also apparently you're doing a victory dance because you stopped the left wing from doing something it was never trying to do. Good for you? This kind of nonsense where the right wing of this country is fighting against an invisible enemy and hurting everyone in the process is why we can't have nice things.
It is unfortunate that the Left in America has gotten to the point on so many of its issues that for them to succeed results in a short-term gain on their behalf, but a longer term loss for us all.

Behold such as California. Illinois. Detroit.
 

Fisher

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That's what matters, right? That the left loses. Who cares about what's good for the country, or what kinds of laws best uphold our values. Nope. Just gotta beat those lefties.

Also apparently you're doing a victory dance because you stopped the left wing from doing something it was never trying to do. Good for you? This kind of nonsense where the right wing of this country is fighting against an invisible enemy and hurting everyone in the process is why we can't have nice things.
More or less when the lefties think only Washington democrats can be the solution and Washington doesn't interfere with others' ability to do good things.
 

soot

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Who cares about what's good for the country, or what kinds of laws best uphold our values.
That's not really fair.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that most people who would cheer something (a "defeat, or whatever) like this probably also think that what the left proposed was bad for the country and ran contrary to "our values".

That said, I fail to see what "values" are under attack here.

We're talking about people establishing their identity before being allowed to vote.

What "value" is under attack?

This kind of nonsense where the right wing of this country is fighting against an invisible enemy and hurting everyone in the process is why we can't have nice things.
That's just plain well done.

Though I occasionally throw out an "LOL" there are very few times when doing so has been predicated on my actually laughing out loud.

This is one of them.

LOL
 

iliveonramen

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It is unfortunate that the Left in America has gotten to the point on so many of its issues that for them to succeed results in a short-term gain on their behalf, but a longer term loss for us all.

Behold such as California. Illinois. Detroit.
I guess listing California/Illinois/Detroit means stuff to individuals on the right.

All I see is two of some of the richest states in the country and a city that has fallen apart due to globalization and the loss of manufacturing jobs.

But let's go ahead and list the poorest states in the country...Mississippi/West Virginia/Arkansas/Kentucky/Idaho/New Mexico/Alabama/Oklahoma/Lousiana/Utah/South Carolina/ Tennessee/Montana/Indiana/South Dakota/Missouri/North Carolian/Texas....I'm starting to see a trend....
 

soot

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If Conservatives could they would bring back the Poll Tax.
I'm not a "Conservative" (capital "C") per se, but when it comes to voting (ie. the mechanisim whereby we choose representatives who craft and impliment national policy) I'm probably further right than most capital "C" Conservatives.

I wouldn't bring back a poll tax because I see no benefit in penalizing those who should be permitted to vote.

I'd rather making voting means tested on the basis of income tax paid, education, and national or community service.
 

Dickieboy

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...But let's go ahead and list the poorest states in the country...Mississippi/West Virginia/Arkansas/Kentucky/Idaho/New Mexico/Alabama/Oklahoma/Lousiana/Utah/South Carolina/ Tennessee/Montana/Indiana/South Dakota/Missouri/North Carolian/Texas....I'm starting to see a trend....
This pretty much sums the assertion you are making:

The Democratic case is illusory and circumstantial; the Republican case is solid and substantial. However, in a country where so many people are economically and historically illiterate, combined with the human proclivity whereby “a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest” (Paul Simon, “The Boxer”), the Democrats may be able to score some points with a hollow argument. The Republicans, though, have the facts on their side.
Further substantiation of this rebuttal can be found here:
Are the 10 Poorest U.S. States Really Republican? - Forbes

Try again (which would be quite off topic)...;)
 

Fenton

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That's what matters, right? That the left loses. Who cares about what's good
for the country, or what kinds of laws best uphold our values. Nope. Just gotta beat those lefties.

Also apparently you're doing a victory dance because you stopped the left wing from doing something it was never trying to do. Good for you? This kind of nonsense where the right wing of this country is fighting against an invisible enemy and hurting everyone in the process is why we can't have nice things.
It's good for America that only citizens vote and to attempt to cut down on Election fraud.

Hopefully Texas moves to State Forms.

Let the election fraud run rampant in Liberal States and lets see where that takes them.
 

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Lutherf

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An interesting take on this Arizona case, which had right wingers gnashing their teeth. If this is correct there will be citizenship checks after all:



Rule of Law » Left Loses Big in Citizenship-Verification Supreme Court Case
The idea that this is any kind of victory is naive in the extreme. One can simply download the federal form and send it in. The state will have to accept it. How long do you think it will take someone to print off a few hundred thousand copies?
 

specklebang

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Not that your dream is likely to come true but if it did, I wonder how many voters would be left to actually, well, vote and I wonder what impact you would see in political trends. It sure would be interesting. And why not a poll tax? Shows sincerity if you have to sacrifice to vote. Helps pay election costs as well.

This is pure philosophical speculation so please don't anybody tell me I'm evil. I'm curious, that's all. They don't let me make the big decisions anymore....



I'm not a "Conservative" (capital "C") per se, but when it comes to voting (ie. the mechanisim whereby we choose representatives who craft and impliment national policy) I'm probably further right than most capital "C" Conservatives.

I wouldn't bring back a poll tax because I see no benefit in penalizing those who should be permitted to vote.

I'd rather making voting means tested on the basis of income tax paid, education, and national or community service.
 

iliveonramen

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This pretty much sums the assertion you are making:



Further substantiation of this rebuttal can be found here:
Are the 10 Poorest U.S. States Really Republican? - Forbes

Try again (which would be quite off topic)...;)
Ahhh....I see....so the argument is that Detroit is Liberal therefore liberal policies have caused it's decline...not things like the changing economic environment during the late 1900's....but Red States being the poorest in the country is unfair because they were slave states in the 1800's.
 

Dickieboy

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Ahhh....I see....so the argument is that Detroit is Liberal therefore liberal policies have caused it's decline...not things like the changing economic environment during the late 1900's....but Red States being the poorest in the country is unfair because they were slave states in the 1800's.
Nice goalpost shift. The portion of your post that I responded to was specific to the states you listed. If you now want to discuss Detroit (again not the thread theme) that's fine. No Detroit's issues are not the same as the listed states issues but rather the exodus of 'city dwellers' to the suburbs thus reducing the tax base below that which supports the city's services costs. IMO, this exodus was caused the fear created from 60's riots AND the societal morphing to a more 'urban' persuasion. that There is also history of corruption and graft but this is not 'partisan' in nature but merely coincidental to Liberal local government.
 

Fenton

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Nice goalpost shift. The portion of your
post that I responded to was specific to the states you listed. If you now want to discuss Detroit (again not the thread theme) that's fine. No Detroit's issues are not the same as the listed states issues but rather the exodus of 'city dwellers' to the suburbs thus reducing the tax base below that which supports the city's services costs. IMO, this exodus was caused the fear created from 60's riots AND the societal morphing to a more 'urban' persuasion. that There is also history of corruption and graft but this is not 'partisan' in nature but merely coincidental to Liberal local government.
They left the city for a reason.
 

ocean515

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That's what matters, right? That the left loses. Who cares about what's good for the country, or what kinds of laws best uphold our values. Nope. Just gotta beat those lefties.

Also apparently you're doing a victory dance because you stopped the left wing from doing something it was never trying to do. Good for you? This kind of nonsense where the right wing of this country is fighting against an invisible enemy and hurting everyone in the process is why we can't have nice things.

I'm curious. Do you believe those on the right have some extra special ability to be organized? Do you think across the board, they have all their papers in order?

Why do you believe so many on the left wouldn't?

Voter ID laws effect everyone, yet so many believe it only effects those who would identify themselves as liberal.

Why?
 

soot

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Not that your dream is likely to come true...
I have absolutely no expectation that it ever will, and I do not lift a finger trying to make it so.

I wonder how many voters would be left to actually, well, vote...
I can't imagine it would be all that many.

...and I wonder what impact you would see in political trends.
What I'd like to see if folks who should have the aptitude to do so taking a felfless interest in their fellow man and the best interests of the nation.

However, if we can label the presently predominating trend as "Selfish Idiots Voting for Shamelessly Pandering Populist Scumbag Snakeoil Salesmen" I expect we'd be back to it pretty quickly, if not immediately.

:(

It sure would be interesting.
I think it would be worth a shot.

What we're doing now is just digging the hole deeper, faster.

It might not work but, nothing ventured and all that...

And why not a poll tax? Shows sincerity if you have to sacrifice to vote. Helps pay election costs as well.
Ostensibly, the folks who would be voting would already be shouldering the lion's share of the tax burden so Uncle Sam would be getting his pound of fles on the front end rather than at the poll.

In other words, the folks who would be voting would already be paying for the election's cost, and everything else this country spends money on, so what difference would it make when they were handed the bill?

They don't let me make the big decisions anymore....
More's the pity.

Folks who actually take the time to entertain my inane, bitter ramblings should have more authority.

And perhaps even a vote!
 

CanadaJohn

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An interesting take on this Arizona case, which had right wingers gnashing their teeth. If this is correct there will be citizenship checks after all:



Rule of Law » Left Loses Big in Citizenship-Verification Supreme Court Case
This is what I enquired about yesterday on the first thread that came out - it seemed to me that the ruling only related to federal jurisdiction and did not prohibit the state from requiring proof of citizenship when filling out state election/voting forms and applications.

I also noted, at least from my perspective, that the Supreme Court did not say anything about the validity or desirability of the Arizona law's requirement of proof of citizenship, only that the state could not impose a greater burden on its citizens than the federal government requires in matters of federal jurisdiction. By this I mean that if the federal government, under a more law abiding administration, decided that proof of citizenship was a requirement for federal registration going forward, this ruling does not preclude them from doing so in that it didn't rule on the constitutionality of the requirement, just on the state versus federal jurisdictional issues.
 

iliveonramen

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Nice goalpost shift. The portion of your post that I responded to was specific to the states you listed. If you now want to discuss Detroit (again not the thread theme) that's fine. No Detroit's issues are not the same as the listed states issues but rather the exodus of 'city dwellers' to the suburbs thus reducing the tax base below that which supports the city's services costs. IMO, this exodus was caused the fear created from 60's riots AND the societal morphing to a more 'urban' persuasion. that There is also history of corruption and graft but this is not 'partisan' in nature but merely coincidental to Liberal local government.
The response you quoted was a response to someone else. Maybe you should link him that article. I'm aware that the cause of poverty for cities or states goes beyond whatever party is in power.
 

fmw

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I just don't understand the furor over identifying oneself at the polls. You can't use a bank check without ID. What is the problem with providing an ID to vote. Why do we want people to vote who aren't entitled to vote? It should be an non issue.
 
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