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Leah Remini - Has made her 2 hr special on Jehovah's Witnesses - On AE website

maxparrish

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Great video, especially at the mid-way mark (the destruction of families being the focus). I am sure it has been broadcast but I saw it on their website.
 

beefheart

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Great video, especially at the mid-way mark (the destruction of families being the focus). I am sure it has been broadcast but I saw it on their website.

The Witnesses are as bad a cult as the $cientologists.
 

maxparrish

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The Witnesses are as bad a cult as the $cientologists.

I had a high school best friend (one of two), and he was a JW. It was hard on him, constantly promising his parents that he was trying to witness me - with that excuse, he was permitted to see me. At first he dreamed of a job in the Watchtower, we argued religion and evolution a lot, and by the time he was a senior he was ready to leave.

I went to college, his family would not let him. So after nearly getting disfellowshipped for involvement with a girl, he figured out how to leave without severing with his family connection. He moved to Texas, and never got involved with JWs again...lieing to his parents about his disgust but slowly drifting away. They knew he was lying, but it was an untruth that permitted them to stay in touch.

His brother and sister did the same thing; he hated the cult, despised it deeply for denying him a normal childhood and forced to attend endless meetings.
 

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This is the old Coliseum Ballroom building on the corner of 27th Avenue and East Lake Street in Minneapolis as it looked in the 1970's when I first arrived.

(Yes, I realize the photo is from the 1920's)
11real0413.jpg

Most of 2nd floor on the 27th Avenue side was occupied by a Scientology Org.
Our band rehearsal/recording space and offices occupied about two thirds of the basement.

The Scientologists would stop and harangue literally EVERY SINGLE musician or anybody else trying to visit or do business with us downstairs. They had people perched on the corner, stopping people and asking if they'd like to take a free personality test. But they especially targeted us.

Over the years, you'd think they'd get the hint but they didn't, and then they started to send people downstairs posing AS musicians or tech people, or using just about any excuse possible to get in.
When that didn't work, they started a campaign to get us kicked out. None of their tactics worked but they tried.

The bass player in our band finally decided to climb up through the inner walls of the building and he broke into their offices late at night. We didn't know much about it till a week later when they suddenly moved out.

A couple of weeks later, our bass player showed up with an armful of paperwork pilfered from their offices.
It was exactly as Leah Remini described, reams of notes detailing the private and even sexual lives and activities of people they "audited" along with voluminous notes from the auditors.
 

Elvira

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I had a high school best friend (one of two), and he was a JW. It was hard on him, constantly promising his parents that he was trying to witness me - with that excuse, he was permitted to see me. At first he dreamed of a job in the Watchtower, we argued religion and evolution a lot, and by the time he was a senior he was ready to leave.

I went to college, his family would not let him. So after nearly getting disfellowshipped for involvement with a girl, he figured out how to leave without severing with his family connection. He moved to Texas, and never got involved with JWs again...lieing to his parents about his disgust but slowly drifting away. They knew he was lying, but it was an untruth that permitted them to stay in touch.

His brother and sister did the same thing; he hated the cult, despised it deeply for denying him a normal childhood and forced to attend endless meetings.

Sadly, as with most things in life, some people commit to something in mind only, but it never reaches the heart...committing to being a Witness is no different...my kids were raised JW's, they went through a rebellious phase as teenagers but I did not force the issue...they left for awhile and returned later as adults and thanked me for raising them to know the truth about God and the Bible and that they realized the world had nothing to offer them...I like to say, some are raised in the truth, some are raised with the truth in them...there is a distinct difference...
 

maxparrish

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Sadly, as with most things in life, some people commit to something in mind only, but it never reaches the heart...committing to being a Witness is no different...my kids were raised JW's, they went through a rebellious phase as teenagers but I did not force the issue...they left for awhile and returned later as adults and thanked me for raising them to know the truth about God and the Bible and that they realized the world had nothing to offer them...I like to say, some are raised in the truth, some are raised with the truth in them...there is a distinct difference...

Which is to say, some shake their programming and stay out, and others are too damaged to survive alone and return their "womb" of comforting associations and programmed nostrums. It's not "seeing" the truth in any logical sense, it is the phycological dependency of subsuming one's identity into a soothing but highly controlling collective.

Living a full life on the outside is hard, especially for those raised in a cult. New safe associations must be found and forged, child induced fears must be shaken (against holidays, blood transfusions, college, etc.) and a new sense of independence, often lonely, confirmed. Those that do are usually scarred, especially when the local JW local goes to trial and declares one disfellowshipped for things like smoking (although pedophilia is more likely to be tolerated and almost never reported to the police).

The video done by Remini is illuminating; it's not her speaking (she says from the outset she has no knowledge of JWs) but of a dozen disfellowshipped members. The results, of course, are inhumane. Parents are not permitted to contact children and expected to turn their back when these children try to establish normal parent-child loving relationships. Friends in the church must shun the apostate. Children of those disfellowshipped never see their grandparents, or uncles, or cousins. And under such brutality, a few are driven to suicide.

The torture of the disfellowshipped is intentional - as JW speakers admit. Families come second to feeding praise to a supposedly all powerful god (who apparently needs praise to please him).

I now more fully understand what my friend went through, and unfortunately, never fully recovered from. It took him till his 50s to enroll in college, he still refuses a blood transfusion (in part to please his parents), and is still deeply angry at his upbringing the church.

See it...
 

Elvira

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Which is to say, some shake their programming and stay out, and others are too damaged to survive alone and return their "womb" of comforting associations and programmed nostrums. It's not "seeing" the truth in any logical sense, it is the phycological dependency of subsuming one's identity into a soothing but highly controlling collective.

Edited for space...

And that is only your mis-informed opinion...there is nowhere I would rather be than in Jehovah's org...I was a Baptist...bought into all the lies on hellfire, immortality of the soul, and the trinity...will not go back...ever...

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Break Up Families or Build Them Up?

As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we work to build up families, both our own and those of our neighbors. We respect God as the Creator of the family arrangement. (Genesis 2:​21-​24; Ephesians 3:​14, 15) In the Bible, he teaches principles that have helped people around the world to have marriages that are strong and happy.

How Jehovah’s Witnesses Promote Strong Families
We do our best to follow the Bible’s counsel, since this helps us become better husbands, wives, and parents. (Proverbs 31:10-​31; Ephesians 5:⁠22–​6:4; 1 Timothy 5:8) The wisdom found in the Bible helps even mixed-belief families to succeed. (1 Peter 3:​1, 2) Consider these expressions from non-Witnesses whose mates became Jehovah’s Witnesses:

“Our first six years together were filled with quarrels and frustration. After Ivete became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, though, she was more loving and patient. The changes that she made saved our marriage.”​—Clauir, from Brazil.

“I objected when my husband, Chansa, began to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses, because I thought that they break up families. Since then, I have come to see that the Bible actually helped our marriage.”​—Agness, from Zambia.

In our ministry, we show our neighbors how applying wisdom found in the Bible can help them to


Select a marriage mate wisely

Survive the first year of marriage

Deal with in-laws

Manage money

Stop arguing

Learn how to forgive

Train children

Does conversion bring conflict in a marriage?
Admittedly, sometimes it does. For example, a 1998 report by the research company Sofres found that 1 out of 20 marriages in which only one mate was a Witness had serious problems when that one converted.

Jesus foretold that those who follow his teachings would at times suffer family strife. (Matthew 10:32-​36) Historian Will Durant notes that under the Roman Empire, “Christianity was charged with breaking up the home,” * and some of Jehovah’s Witnesses face the same charge today. Does this mean, though, that the Witness causes the discord?

When ruling on the accusation that Jehovah’s Witnesses break up families, the European Court of Human Rights said that non-Witness family members often cause conflict by refusing “to accept and to respect their religious relative’s freedom to manifest and practise his or her religion.” The Court added: “This situation is common to all mixed-belief marriages and Jehovah’s Witnesses are no exception.” * Even when faced with religious intolerance, though, Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to follow the Bible’s counsel: “Return evil for evil to no one. . . . If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men.”​—Romans 12:17, 18.

Why Jehovah’s Witnesses believe they should marry only within their religion
The Witnesses heed the Bible’s instruction to marry “only in the Lord,” that is, to marry a person who shares their faith. (1 Corinthians 7:​39) This command is both Biblical and practical. For example, a 2010 article in the Journal of Marriage and Family said that “couples in which partners share common religious affiliations, practices, and beliefs” tend to have higher quality relationships. *

However, the Witnesses do not encourage their members to separate from a marriage mate who is not a Witness. The Bible says: “If any brother has an unbelieving wife and she is agreeable to staying with him, let him not leave her; and if a woman has an unbelieving husband and he is agreeable to staying with her, let her not leave her husband.” (1 Corinthians 7:​12, 13) Jehovah’s Witnesses abide by this command.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/families/
 

maxparrish

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And that is only your mis-informed opinion...there is nowhere I would rather be than in Jehovah's org...I was a Baptist...bought into all the lies on hellfire, immortality of the soul, and the trinity...will not go back...ever...

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/families/

First, you missed the point. We are speaking of the children raised as JW's, not of mature converts. The need for children to return to the fold is a pathology, a programmed need created in child-hood by denying them the normal associations with the outside world.

Second, you exchanged one oppressive collective consciousness with another; so much so your still deluded enough to use a false choice of going back to Baptist nonsense or staying put. Frankly, your antipathy over a doctrinal dispute of zero consequence to how you live your life ought to clue you in; the emotional reaction over sectarian beliefs over somebody's interpretation of hellfire or the trinity is meaningless dispute of a concept, an abstract idea or guess that has nothing to do with real life.

Religion's all over the world have killed each other over thinking the wrong idea, all of which amounts to a difference of opinion. And that is your fear?

Third, you have dodged the central fact: when a person is an apostate, has a different idea, or does something as innocuous as participating in a holiday, smoking they are often disfellowshipped and totally shunned. The purpose of this is acknowledged by leadership, to cause sufficient pain to compel them to come back. This is brutally effective on many, especially those raised in the church who have known no other life. Children are told they can't be friends with non-JWs, they have to sit out in hallways when classrooms celebrate holidays, they often can't go to school social activities or sports. They are thus looked upon as weirdos and suffer accordingly.

It's nothing more than emotional blackmail of highly vulnerable people.

Inexplicably, should a child report sexual abuse or incest, the organization does nothing (under the two witness rule). Nor will they report it to authorities. At most, they will put the pervert in another congregation...more than likely to repeat his crime.

You can quote all the scripture you like about Jesus coming to separate parent from child, etc., it does not change the fact that like all extremist ideologies the loyalty is not to a person, or your family, or community - it is to either the dictates of "the state", "a dictator", or "the collective".

Evil with a human face is still evil.
 
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Elvira

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First, you missed the point. We are speaking of the children raised as JW's, not of mature converts. The need for children to return to the fold is a pathology, a programmed need created in child-hood by denying them the normal associations with the outside world.

Second, you exchanged one oppressive collective consciousness with another; so much so your still deluded enough to use a false choice of going back to Baptist nonsense or staying put. Frankly, your antipathy over a doctrinal dispute of zero consequence to how you live your life ought to clue you in; the emotional reaction over sectarian beliefs over somebody's interpretation of hellfire or the trinity is meaningless dispute of a concept, an abstract idea or guess that has nothing to do with real life.

Religion's all over the world have killed each other over thinking the wrong idea, all of which amounts to a difference of opinion. And that is your fear?

Third, you have dodged the central fact: when a person is an apostate, has a different idea, or does something as innocuous as participating in a holiday, smoking they are often disfellowshipped and totally shunned. The purpose of this is acknowledged by leadership, to cause sufficient pain to compel them to come back. This is brutally effective on many, especially those raised in the church who have known no other life. Children are told they can't be friends with non-JWs, they have to sit out in hallways when classrooms celebrate holidays, they often can't go to school social activities or sports. They are thus looked upon as weirdos and suffer accordingly.

Inexplicably, should a child report sexual abuse or incest, the organization does nothing (under the two witness rule). Nor will they report it to authorities. At most, they will put the pervert in another congregation...more than likely to repeat his crime.

You can quote all the scripture you like about Jesus coming to separate parent from child, etc., it does not change the fact that like all extremist ideologies the loyalty is not to a person, or your family, or community - it is to either the dictates of "the state", "a dictator", or "the collective".

Evil with a human face is still evil.

I raised children in the truth...you haven't so you haven't a clue what you're talking about...end of discussion...
 
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