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Law & Order President

It's the swing voter that decides the election.

All the spin is geared toward the mind of the swing voter, what is the overall theme of the election?

Again, I don't believe there as many swing voters as in elections past. I'm sure if a poll were taken here on DP of people who profess to be a swing voter we'd find their mind has long been made up. The country seems evenly split so it'll come down to who shows up.
 
I didn't say Trump doesn't talk a lot of crappola. But he would send guardsmen to restore civil order if the Mayors and Governors get desperate enough. It will take national public sentiment and damning media coverage to sway hearts and minds to pressure local gov to react. If these protests/riots keep spreading, the general population will start to demand action to quell it.

We need action to quell it, but it needs to be strategic action. We cannot just send in a federal or military police force and expect that to solve the issue. Over-policing is much of what is causing the rioting, so reacting the same way will only increase issues. The President needs to work with Mayors and Governors to find out where backup is needed, what has worked and has not worked, and how extra force can be used to provide a tactical advantage in that scenario. I do think cities need to use more force, but there are ways it can be done without the appearance that it is being done. And more than anything, officials need to stop using that force as a preemptive strike. I see a lot of instances where the police start the violence instead of reacting to it.
 
Good counter-argument, I can't find fault with it. Except that blaming Trump too much for all the country's current ills is political overreach. My single biggest problem with him is that he supports plutocracy with most of his policies.

Trump is blaming the Democrats, Biden and Harris, which is overreach. Trump isn’t responsible for the violence personally, but he is responsible for his rhetoric and lack of leadership. He should have never said there were good people on both sides. He isn’t going to change. He isn’t going to lead or calm the country. He takes sides, which he shouldn’t do. I don’t want riots, but I don’t want militias slinging guns around and shooting civilians either. Plenty of right wingers have already taken that teenagers side and called him a hero. That is ****ed up. No doubt it’s bad, but we need leaders above it all.
 
But the odd fact is is that most people in the cities are not voting for the GOP. Trump paints our cities as war zones in order to attack the entire Democratic Party and promote fear. We do have more violence than we should in my city. We have also instances of unarmed black men being shot by cops. Our local BLMs chapter gets along and prefers our state police to our city.

Despite these facts, despite we are living in the city, we aren’t voting for the GOP. Rural voters look at the cities, watch the rhetoric on Fox and from Trump, and vote Trump because they are so scared of BLM. They think BLM are communists.

The issue is BLM like the players in the NBA, are not going to quit until something changes.

I think the GOP should listen to them and try to find a solution instead of fearmongering and dividing the country.

It comes down to urban and multi racial city dwellers being pitted against rural white voters who are scared. It doesn’t have to be that way. We all deserve better than this BS narrative about America, about racial justice movements, and unneeded prejudices against each other.

True, we're all actually supporting fairness, justice, and equality but have different opinions about how to institute change. It's most of the elitists that favor the current system because they financially profit from it. I believe both parties are guilty of fomenting division for there to be a clear difference in who to support.

I agree that there will be more civil unrest until the gov and other authorities start to recognize and address the systemic prejudice and injustice for minorities and the income disparities within the economy.
 
Trump may have one big issue that helps him with undecided voters, representing and supporting law and order during these riots. Average voters are getting scared of the civil unrest that's leading to violence, death, burning, looting, and police defunding. It looks like pure anarchy and mayhem in the streets, and if it threatens the suburbs, then all hell will break loose.

The Dems and Biden seemed to support the BLM protests that have lead to these events. They need to denounce the violence and trashing of businesses more or face a backlash in the elections.

All of this has happened during Trump's presidency, and he hasn't done anything but bluster.

He is a useless failure.
 
We need action to quell it, but it needs to be strategic action. We cannot just send in a federal or military police force and expect that to solve the issue. Over-policing is much of what is causing the rioting, so reacting the same way will only increase issues. The President needs to work with Mayors and Governors to find out where backup is needed, what has worked and has not worked, and how extra force can be used to provide a tactical advantage in that scenario. I do think cities need to use more force, but there are ways it can be done without the appearance that it is being done. And more than anything, officials need to stop using that force as a preemptive strike. I see a lot of instances where the police start the violence instead of reacting to it.

This is part of the problem in a nutshell that too much force expands the violence and looks like gov authoritarianism. But at some point, a calculated risk assessment will determine that too little a force to tap down rioting is ineffective. If Trump claims it's becoming insurrection and govt overthrow, then the real result will be catastrophic.


Trump is blaming the Democrats, Biden and Harris, which is overreach. Trump isn’t responsible for the violence personally, but he is responsible for his rhetoric and lack of leadership. He should have never said there were good people on both sides. He isn’t going to change. He isn’t going to lead or calm the country. He takes sides, which he shouldn’t do. I don’t want riots, but I don’t want militias slinging guns around and shooting civilians either. Plenty of right wingers have already taken that teenagers side and called him a hero. That is ****ed up. No doubt it’s bad, but we need leaders above it all.

IMO, both sides are guilty of bombastic rhetoric against each other. When the parties practice the same tactics after calling each other out, it looks like hypocrisy. I concur though that Trump, as the nation's leader, shouldn't take such adamant sides.
 
Both parties are always claiming that the opposition president is breaking the law. It's lost its teeth.

All the more reason it should not be in the hands of the parties and the president should be able to face criminal charges. Ye?
 
All the more reason it should not be in the hands of the parties and the president should be able to face criminal charges. Ye?

Well, supposedly if the POTUS were obviously caught breaking laws, then congress would impeach. But impeachment is more of a political event than a legal one. They don't make a standing president open to criminal charges because of all the lawsuits that would be brought interfering with his executive duties.
 
Well, supposedly if the POTUS were obviously caught breaking laws, then congress would impeach. But impeachment is more of a political event than a legal one. They don't make a standing president open to criminal charges because of all the lawsuits that would be brought interfering with his executive duties.

Bingo. Yes we agree impeachment is a political process, we disagree with the president not being able to handle his duties because both nixon and clinton were able to carry out theirs just fine. Legal protection just makes the president above the law.
 
Bingo. Yes we agree impeachment is a political process, we disagree with the president not being able to handle his duties because both nixon and clinton were able to carry out theirs just fine. Legal protection just makes the president above the law.

He's not supposed to be above the law and congress didn't believe, in a majority, that he broke any laws. Now, if there were more damning evidence, like bank fraud, money laundering, giving illegal orders, etc, then the media coverage and public pressure would've supported impeachment. It's not a perfect process but the best we've got for now.
 
He's not supposed to be above the law and congress didn't believe, in a majority, that he broke any laws. Now, if there were more damning evidence, like bank fraud, money laundering, giving illegal orders, etc, then the media coverage and public pressure would've supported impeachment. It's not a perfect process but the best we've got for now.

The parties are not unbiased enough to be charged with carrying out a fair process. Trump even broke the law on live television by falsifying NOAA reports yet nothing happened. No no immunity period. Not supposed to be just doesnt cut it.
 
The parties are not unbiased enough to be charged with carrying out a fair process. Trump even broke the law on live television by falsifying NOAA reports yet nothing happened. No no immunity period. Not supposed to be just doesnt cut it.

That's what elections are for to remove dishonest politicians. And historically, they've always been ridiculous fabricators, making promises and denying dishonesty. It takes some pretty unusual and solid evidence to prosecute a POTUS, because of the political bias within parties.
 
Trump may have one big issue that helps him with undecided voters, representing and supporting law and order during these riots. Average voters are getting scared of the civil unrest that's leading to violence, death, burning, looting, and police defunding. It looks like pure anarchy and mayhem in the streets, and if it threatens the suburbs, then all hell will break loose.

The Dems and Biden seemed to support the BLM protests that have lead to these events. They need to denounce the violence and trashing of businesses more or face a backlash in the elections.

BLM exists because "law enforcement" is breaking laws by targeting and harming African-Americans, sometimes even killing them. Civil injustice is 100 percent the police department's fault everywhere it happens, which is all over America. So obviously Trump is responsible for the riots starting and does not want to stop the problems leading to them. What Democrats want to do is tackle the cause so they will stop happening.
 
Trump may have one big issue that helps him with undecided voters, representing and supporting law and order during these riots. Average voters are getting scared of the civil unrest that's leading to violence, death, burning, looting, and police defunding. It looks like pure anarchy and mayhem in the streets, and if it threatens the suburbs, then all hell will break loose.

The Dems and Biden seemed to support the BLM protests that have lead to these events. They need to denounce the violence and trashing of businesses more or face a backlash in the elections.

Biden has denounced any violence and wants the police to have more funding, not less. Trump was the original police defunder as one of his first actions:

Donald Trump'''s Budget Cuts Leave NY Open to Terror: NYPD | Time

Now he is still trying to defund the police:

“PROTESTS DRAW ATTENTION TO TRUMP-REQUESTED CUTS to community policing and mediation programs at the Justice Department. The administration’s 2021 budget, like all its previous budgets, recommended eliminating the Community Relations Services and Community Oriented Policing Services and placing their functions under other parts of the department to “improve efficiency.” Both comprise relatively small parts of the DOJ budget, costing $15.5 million and $275.5 million, respectively, and would retain limited funding if moved. Rep. Robert Aderholt, the top Republican on the House appropriations subcommittee for the Justice Department, has questioned why the community programs would be less effective if they were merged with other divisions.

Civil rights groups and Democrats have decried the proposed cuts and successfully blocked them in previous years and are likely to do so again this year, given Democratic control of the House. The CRS is “meant to address the very same racism that the president is stoking,” said Vanita Gupta, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights and a former Obama Justice Department official. “We need to prevent these cuts,” said Rep. Jose Serrano, the appropriations subcommittee chair in the House.”

Democrats Push to Block Trump-Requested Cuts to Community Policing Programs - WSJ


Trump has contributed to racial tensions by his constant race baiting throughout his presidency. He wants violence in the streets because he thinks it will help him get re-elected. That’s why he keeps throwing gasoline on the fire.

There is no doubt that race relations and thus violence are worse under Trump and will continue to get worse unless Biden is elected.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
BLM exists because "law enforcement" is breaking laws by targeting and harming African-Americans, sometimes even killing them. Civil injustice is 100 percent the police department's fault everywhere it happens, which is all over America. So obviously Trump is responsible for the riots starting and does not want to stop the problems leading to them. What Democrats want to do is tackle the cause so they will stop happening.

Law enforcement is made up of imperfect humans and subject to errors, and though that's not an overall excuse, it is a reality. The police departments need more funding and better training, not to be dissolved. Blaming it all directly on Trump is a little ridiculous.

If the riots keep hurting innocent people and destroying private property, the majority will stop caring about what the cause is.
 
I agree with what you are saying about police funding. Look at all the things we call the police for: active crimes, domestic disputes, drug addicts, homeless people, and all sort of stuff. In most areas in the U.S., it is only a matter of months of training to become an officer. They're not equipped to properly handle what they're called to do. You can't end homelessness with a baton.

However, there are police departments that are more than just imperfect. According to a recent Brennan Center report, police departments in over a dozen states have public problems with officers that have white nationalist or militia-movement ties. It notes that "Police reforms, often imposed after incidents of racist misconduct or brutality, have focused on addressing these unconscious manifestations of bias.... These reforms, while well-intentioned, leave unaddressed an especially harmful form of bias, which remains entrenched within law enforcement: explicit racism." Clearly improvements need to be made in that area. The problem with police and race relations is bad enough that we shouldn't tolerate having a single overtly racist officer on the job. The common sentiment of digging our heels and saying that the protestors are going too far and systemic racism doesn't exist should not be used as a cover for no reforms to be made at all.

So far, support for BLM looks a lot less steady than support for Biden. The wider public might start associating the riots with Biden, but they aren't right now. It may change, I don't know. It's probably because Biden has been distancing himself from violence by protestors and opposes defunding the police.
 
True, we're all actually supporting fairness, justice, and equality but have different opinions about how to institute change. It's most of the elitists that favor the current system because they financially profit from it. I believe both parties are guilty of fomenting division for there to be a clear difference in who to support.

I agree that there will be more civil unrest until the gov and other authorities start to recognize and address the systemic prejudice and injustice for minorities and the income disparities within the economy.

That’s why I am voting for Biden. Trump is playing into the division, which will lead to more violence. He is not anti corruption. He is an outsider, but he is still an elitist, a fake populist, and his children are all trying to profit and benefit. I am not sure if Biden is going to challenge the status quo much, but he also isn’t going to destroy our government, it’s departments, or corrupt the balance of powers, and I believe he is more likely to get government working and listening which will restore basic order. Some of the problems we are facing are not going to be solved by a single president either. We have to expect a lot of changes, and a lot of new leaders, McConnell needs to go, and so does Trump.
 
Both parties are always claiming that the opposition president is breaking the law. It's lost its teeth.

I do not recall any party or president ther than Trump arguinfg before the Supreme Court that a president has absolute immunity....
 
Trump may have one big issue that helps him with undecided voters, representing and supporting law and order during these riots. Average voters are getting scared of the civil unrest that's leading to violence, death, burning, looting, and police defunding. It looks like pure anarchy and mayhem in the streets, and if it threatens the suburbs, then all hell will break loose.

The Dems and Biden seemed to support the BLM protests that have lead to these events. They need to denounce the violence and trashing of businesses more or face a backlash in the elections.

The tactic remind me of the below, ahead of the 2018 mid-term election, instill fear.

10/29/18
Trump on Monday called a caravan of Central American migrants heading toward the U.S.-Mexico border an "invasion" and pledged to use the military to stop people from entering the U.S.

"This is an invasion of our Country and our Military is waiting for you!" the president tweeted.


Whatever happened with the caravan? Oh, it never was real.

Likewise, the "riots" aren't nearly as large as Trump TV Fox says they are and there is lots of evidence the violence and rioting were/are white supremacists posing as BLM protesters.
 
Law enforcement is made up of imperfect humans and subject to errors, and though that's not an overall excuse, it is a reality. The police departments need more funding and better training, not to be dissolved. Blaming it all directly on Trump is a little ridiculous.

If the riots keep hurting innocent people and destroying private property, the majority will stop caring about what the cause is.

Partially agreee and partially disagree...

The funding is not the issue. I do not think that the US cops are paid less than their counterparts in Europe or that they have less advanced equipment. The big issue is the reluctance to isolate the bad apples and the laws and police union contracts which permit cops to act like they operate in an authoritarian state with little accountability, even when they are caught. One would expect that as crime rates have generally go down in the long term, that there would not be a need to keep pouring the same amount of money to law enforcement institutions. So, a debate about not defunding but a redistribution of some money that today go to police enforcement is appropriate. I see often cops called to resolve a situation with mentally ill people who end up killed because the cops expect them to obey their instructions even though some of those people have the mental capacity of a small child. Why not having instead health professionals called to resolve and deescalate such situations?
 
Again, I don't believe there as many swing voters as in elections past. I'm sure if a poll were taken here on DP of people who profess to be a swing voter we'd find their mind has long been made up. The country seems evenly split so it'll come down to who shows up.

The demigods are bound to keep balance.

Either Party with too much power is not a good thing.

So they distribute thought accordingly.

With the election held close they radiate the themes that make the election.

Above the Demigods though is Astrology and the magnetic attraction of the office for that which was before, and this they use to distribute the themes and purposes.
 
Trump may have one big issue that helps him with undecided voters, representing and supporting law and order during these riots. Average voters are getting scared of the civil unrest that's leading to violence, death, burning, looting, and police defunding. It looks like pure anarchy and mayhem in the streets, and if it threatens the suburbs, then all hell will break loose.

The Dems and Biden seemed to support the BLM protests that have lead to these events. They need to denounce the violence and trashing of businesses more or face a backlash in the elections.

I think they need to too. As the violence in the streets continues in some cities, law and order is becoming a major issue for voters, I believe, and the Dems need to reject what's happening.
 
I didn't say Trump doesn't talk a lot of crappola. But he would send guardsmen to restore civil order if the Mayors and Governors get desperate enough. It will take national public sentiment and damning media coverage to sway hearts and minds to pressure local gov to react. If these protests/riots keep spreading, the general population will start to demand action to quell it.

And. as we saw in Portland, that ham handed approach escalated the situation drastically. The folks that started protesting WAS the general population. You think the 'wall of moms' and 'wall of vets' and 'Wall of Dads' were just BLM protestors?
 
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