Law Enforcement

[Moderate Right]

It may be a worse problem for minorities, but this is a poor people problem, not just a race problem. The cops serve the upper middle class and above, they tolerate everyone else, as long as they obey....

For the most part, it is the poor people committing the crimes.

 

[PNW Guy]

For the most part, it is the poor people committing the crimes.

Yeah so police should kick their asses a little while theyre arrestin' them' in case they get off the charges, I mean they're poor, they had to be guilty of something.... Right?

Learn 'em respect for athoratei', so'd they get a job and stop being poor criminals. Dumb libs...

Yeah I can see how that totally makes snese to Trump® folks....

 

[Irwin Corey]

Most of the "Cops" I know and have known are ... good guys. Some are a bit too authoritarian and serious for their own good but at least an equal amount were just good "good ol boy's". I live across the stree from a "cop" and from my observation he seems to be a great father and husband; probably tends to the "too serious" side but I don't know because we've just moved into the neighborhood and because of COVID no one's getting to really know each other here.

By and large, I like cops. On the other hand, my Son and I got stopped by one that was just scary, and to put a point on it a few weeks later he shot an guy and was suspended; that's all I remember about it.

 

[Moderate Right]

Yeah so police should kick their asses a little while theyre arrestin' them' in case they get off the charges, I mean they're poor, they had to be guilty of something.... Right?

Learn 'em respect for athoratei', so'd they get a job and stop being poor criminals. Dumb libs...

Yeah I can see how that totally makes snese to Trump® folks....

For the most part, it is the poor people committing the crimes.

 

[bricklayer]

It has become clear to me over the past few years that if you do not do exactly as the police tell you, they get to kill you. These are the (real) rules. And if you happen to be a POC, they get to kill you anyway.

And the right cheers it on.

That's the thing about thinking of people, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than individuals. You can claim to know everything that you need to know about people you know absolutely nothing about except that you can group them with others, then you attribute anything found in anyone in the group you made to everyone in that group. What if someone did that by race? What if someone attributed anything found in any member of a race to every member of a race? Or by neighborhood?, or by income, or by sex appeal?

It's exactly the little remarks like, "And the right cheers it on.", that will eventually get the right to cheer it on.

 

[bricklayer]

Police Unions have become inordinately powerful to the point where there is in some cases virtually no decision a community can make about its policing that the Union can't flip on its ear.

If you want to know the truth of if it:
a) the whole "defund the police" thing has been completely poisoned by bad language skills. Their actual cause was to "repurpose the police" Language skills have gone to crap in this country
b) there is an actual "dissolve the police" movement. It has mainly been driven by the inability for communities to deal with the Police Union and thus suffer complete loss of control of their ability to decide how the Police Department should function in their community. The only recourse left has been to dissolve their existing Police Dept and start over from scratch which has been happening in some cases

One of my best friends just did that with one of his companies. It was better for him to take the loss now before the Teamster's pension insolvency becomes more widely known.
He's a Trump voter even though he knows that Trump will not bail out that pension fund.

 

[bricklayer]

It may be a worse problem for minorities, but this is a poor people problem, not just a race problem. The cops serve the upper middle class and above, they tolerate everyone else, as long as they obey....

Many "poor" people never connect their poor character with their poverty.

 

[bricklayer]

Through my work and life experience I have met a few LEO's as you describe. They were the few. The majority of LEO's that I have known and worked with got into that line of work because they wanted to help people.

"Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end because they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C. S. Lewis

 

[Eddiehaskell]

I believe law and it’s enforcement is a pillar of any civilized society. It ranks higher than any one issue we can think of.

 

[bricklayer]

Yes, police work attracts some people with sadistic tendencies. That is understandable.

Yes, police work attracts some people who cannot find any other job.

Yes, the police meet the most defiant and violent people you can ever imagine (think of that young gentleman in Ferguson who -- his supporters say -- would have gone on to a brilliant college career. Yeah, right!).

Yes, no one in his right mind would want to be a cop -- especially in today's America.

The cops are a necessary evil, for there are so many really, really, really bad individuals in this country (just look at Wisconsin and Portland ).

So we need them.

I don't need them, but there are those who do.

 

[bricklayer]

Yes, let's staff the police with a bunch ******s.

"I'd rather be uncomfortable in good company than be comfortable in the company of delicate men." USAR

 

[bricklayer]

For the most part, it is the poor people committing the crimes.

Many "poor" people never do connect their poor characters with their poverty.

 

[armycowboy]

People get into different jobs for different reasons. Some people get into police work for the wrong reasons. The psychological test is supposed to weed those people out, but obviously it doesn't always work.

 

[bricklayer]

I believe law and it’s enforcement is a pillar of any civilized society. It ranks higher than any one issue we can think of.

The problem isn't with law enforcement. The problem is with the law. There's too damn much of it. I do not place myself above the law; it's the law that keeps sinking. Pile up enough of anything, even laws, and they will eventually sink under their own weight.

We are OVERGOVERNED !!!!! We need to get our leviathan back into its constitutional box.

Let's take it back down to three laws: 1. Don't harm anyone. 2. Don't take their stuff. 3. Keep your word., and then we can start building it back up. I know that we need more than three laws, but those three laws are a whole lot closer to what it should be than the monstrosity of laws that we have now.

 

[Eddiehaskell]

The problem isn't with law enforcement. The problem is with the law. There's too damn much of it. I do not place myself above the law; it's the law that keeps sinking. Pile up enough of anything, even laws, and they will eventually sink under their own weight.

We are OVERGOVERNED !!!!! We need to get our leviathan back into its constitutional box.

Let's take it back down to three laws: 1. Don't harm anyone. 2. Don't take their stuff. 3. Keep your word., and then we can start building it back up. I know that we need more than three laws, but those three laws are a whole lot closer to what it should be than the monstrosity of laws that we have now.

Couldn’t we simply leave enforcing the law up to the states and local governments?

 

[bricklayer]

Couldn’t we simply leave enforcing the law up to the states and local governments?

As long as those states and localities do not violate our constitutional rights.

 

[Eddiehaskell]

As long as those states and localities do not violate our constitutional rights.

I imagine those places wouldn’t be attractive places to live.

 

[bricklayer]

I imagine those places wouldn’t be attractive places to live.

The physical place is not as important, to me, as are the immaterial conditions there. Liberty is the individual's authority over and responsibility for them self. I value liberty more than life itself.
Give me liberty, or give me death.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I imagine those places wouldn’t be attractive places to live.

So you can imagine what life was like under Jim Crow laws. Many did leave while others were unable. To this day, there are whites in the South who believe the courts were wrong to do away with Jim Crow laws. They believe that Blacks ought to be "kept in their right place."

 

[Stealers Wheel]

That's the thing about thinking of people, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than individuals. You can claim to know everything that you need to know about people you know absolutely nothing about except that you can group them with others, then you attribute anything found in anyone in the group you made to everyone in that group. What if someone did that by race? What if someone attributed anything found in any member of a race to every member of a race? Or by neighborhood?, or by income, or by sex appeal?

It's exactly the little remarks like, "And the right cheers it on.", that will eventually get the right to cheer it on.

I made no such claim. I see people on the right, lots of people on the right, defending the most horrendous behavior of the police. I have seen this for decades. Stating my personal observations does not cause the behavior I witness.

If you object to what the police are seen doing, speak up! Otherwise, people might get the impression that YOU condone their behavior. And, being on the right as you are, this will lead people to conclude that you are among those on the right who cheer it on.

 

[bricklayer]

I made no such claim. I see people on the right, lots of people on the right, defending the most horrendous behavior of the police. I have seen this for decades. Stating my personal observations does not cause the behavior I witness.

If you object to what the police are seen doing, speak up! Otherwise, people might get the impression that YOU condone their behavior. And, being on the right as you are, this will lead people to conclude that you are among those on the right who cheer it on.

I just don't think like you. I do not think of people, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than individuals. I do not attribute to every member of a group anything that can be found in any member of that group. I don't do that to blacks, whites, cops or preachers. I just don't think like you. I don't think of you, first and foremost, as being on the left. I do not concern myself with whatever others claim to infer from me, nor do I take responsibility for it. I am responsible for what I imply; I am not responsible for whatever others claim to infer. Your "Impressions" are on you, not me.

Thousands of American voters wake up every day to find themselves, for the first time ever in their lives, on the right. They did not move or change in any way. Those to the left of them simply pronounced them as being now on the right. Many have cornered themselves into the polar left where any difference in any direction is to the right. Indeed, from the polar left, the farthest one can see, no matter their stature, is to the equator. From that point of view, at the polar left, those in the middle are as far to the right can be seen.

The left's campaign of riots is not intimidating; it is infuriating. They will not frighten people into voting for your preferred candidates or causes. They have sealed the deal with riots, looting and 'Bagdad Bob' media. You have ensured a second term for President Trump.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I just don't think like you. I do not think of people, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than individuals. I do not attribute to every member of a group anything that can be found in any member of that group. I don't do that to blacks, whites, cops or preachers. I just don't think like you. I don't think of you, first and foremost, as being on the left. I do not concern myself with whatever others claim to infer from me, nor do I take responsibility for it. I am responsible for what I imply; I am not responsible for whatever others claim to infer. Your "Impressions" are on you, not me.

Thousands of American voters wake up every day to find themselves, for the first time ever in their lives, on the right. They did not move or change in any way. Those to the left of them simply pronounced them as being now on the right. Many have cornered themselves into the polar left where any difference in any direction is to the right. Indeed, from the polar left, the farthest one can see, no matter their stature, is to the equator. From that point of view, at the polar left, those in the middle are as far to the right can be seen.

The left's campaign of riots is not intimidating; it is infuriating. They will not frighten people into voting for your preferred candidates or causes. They have sealed the deal with riots, looting and 'Bagdad Bob' media. You have ensured a second term for President Trump.

So, when a single solitary officer commits an atrocity, you would not speak out against that individual's behavior because to do so would lump in all police officers and that would be terrible wrong. I conclude this because there are current situations in which police officers (single individuals) have indeed committed terrible murderous acts and yet you have remained silent.

And you attribute this silence to your refusing to think of people in terms of the groups or causes to which they are affiliated.

I'll bet you agree with Trump when he said there were "some very fine people" marching in the White Nationalists protest in Charlottesville.

 

[bricklayer]

So, when a single solitary officer commits an atrocity, you would not speak out against that individual's behavior because to do so would lump in all police officers and that would be terrible wrong. I conclude this because there are current situations in which police officers (single individuals) have indeed committed terrible murderous acts and yet you have remained silent.

And you attribute this silence to your refusing to think of people in terms of the groups or causes to which they are affiliated.

I'll bet you agree with Trump when he said there were "some very fine people" marching in the White Nationalists protest in Charlottesville.

You came close there in the beginning. Please, allow me to paraphrase you. I won't change much. I don't need to.
Steelers Wheel, Q. - "So, when a single solitary officer commits an atrocity, you would speak out against that individual's behavior?" Bricklayer, A. - Yes, that's exactly what I'd do.

I'm for justice, individual justice. I'm not for group (social) justice.

We can all group ourselves, or be grouped by others, in myriad ways. However, I do not think of myself or others, first and foremost, as members of groups rather than individuals.

As to my attitudes and opinions towards the police, I will direct you to my OP.