Latest Evidence:The Olympics Need to DIE

[Hawkeye10]

well there is overwhelming evidence that the RUSSIAN sports machine is riddled with corruption and there is testimony that the Russian AD body was ignoring positive tests and destroying evidence

Well there is no excuse then for not univiting them at a reasonable time before the event, out of consideration for fellow humans.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well there is not excuse for not univiting them at a reasonable time before the event, out of consideration for fellow humans.

so what you are saying is if a corrupt system can hide its corruption for a sufficient period of time, those who are part of the corrupt system should escape the consequences?

 

[Hawkeye10]

so what you are saying is if a corrupt system can hide its corruption for a sufficient period of time, those who are part of the corrupt system should escape the consequences?

Yes. Works like statutes of limitations but in reverse, and I am like one of only 5 people who still believe in statutes of limitations, jsyk.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yes. Works like statutes of limitations but in reverse, and I am like one of only 5 people who still believe in statutes of limitations, jsyk.

I don't for some things. Shirley babashoff and Frank Shorter should be given the gold medals they were cheated out of in 1976 after the "winning" athletes had admitted in courts of law that they were given banned pharmaceuticals and HGH by east german sports doctors

 

[Top Cat]

If you are so not interesting in conversation then what is the point?

That you couldn't make one.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Well there is no excuse then for not univiting them at a reasonable time before the event, out of consideration for fellow humans.

If a boxer weighs OVER the weight limit for his division for a championship fight the DAY BEFORE HIS FIGHT, either he fights a non-title fight or he doesn't fight. Doping gives an athlete an unfair advantage and breaks the rules. If an athlete admits to doping 5 seconds before an event, he should be banned. If an organization admits to allowing doping 5 seconds before an event, it should get banned. It's cheating and should not be allowed to compete as the playing field is no longer level.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Yes. Works like statutes of limitations but in reverse, and I am like one of only 5 people who still believe in statutes of limitations, jsyk.

Your statute of limitations argument is complete nonsense. Read my previous post for why.

 

[Hawkeye10]

If a boxer weighs OVER the weight limit for his division for a championship fight the DAY BEFORE HIS FIGHT, either he fights a non-title fight or he doesn't fight. Doping gives an athlete an unfair advantage and breaks the rules. If an athlete admits to doping 5 seconds before an event, he should be banned. If an organization admits to allowing doping 5 seconds before an event, it should get banned. It's cheating and should not be allowed to compete as the playing field is no longer level.

I think if there was some big new piece of information about Russian Cheating that the OIC did not have access to months ago that I would have heard about it. Without such a dynamic what we are left with re univiting all of the Russians is the IOC contemplating going all Captain Renault, and that certainly does not work for me.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I think if there was some big new piece of information about Russian Cheating that the OIC did not have access to months ago that I would have heard about it. Without such a dynamic what we are left with re univiting all of the Russians is the IOC contemplating going all Captain Renault, and that certainly does not work for me.

The IOC is like any other bureaucracy: it moves slow. It doesn't matter when they have or have processed the evidence. If there is evidence that Russia is cheating, their attendance should be revoked. Cheating should not be tolerated. That certainly works for me.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Your statute of limitations argument is complete nonsense. Read my previous post for why.

Said as if "nonsense" means "does not match my conclusions".....

Maybe you need to familiarize yourself with a good dictionary.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The IOC is like any other bureaucracy: it moves slow. It doesn't matter when they have or have processed the evidence. If there is evidence that Russia is cheating, their attendance should be revoked. Cheating should not be tolerated. That certainly works for me.

Lawyers and prosecutors certainly have tried to pretend like they discovered new information at the very last second in order to gain an advantage in court. Good judges shut them down, and the reason is that this tactic drives unjustice. If the IOC is claiming that they are just now figuring out that crimes were committed then they need to prove that they did not have the opportunity to know this during a reasonable timeframe, otherwise they should be SOL.

Justice is not optional, and chain yanking is not civilized, it does not conform to our values. THe IOC does not get to let nations think that they are invited and then yank them back at the last moment just as they get near the goal in order to cause extra psychological pain.

Any cancelling of the invite at this late date needs to happen far above board.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Said as if "nonsense" means "does not match my conclusions".....

Maybe you need to familiarize yourself with a good dictionary.

Actually, it completely matches my conclusions. Your "statute of limitations" argument has no logic. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with a good book on that topic.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Lawyers and prosecutors certainly have tried to pretend like they discovered new information at the very last second in order to gain an advantage in court. Good judges shut them down, and the reason is that this tactic drive unjustice. If the IOC is claiming that they are just now figuring out that crimes were committed then they need to prove that they did not have the opportunity to know this during a reasonable timeframe, otherwise they should be SOL.

Justice is not optional.

Incorrect. If they have evidence that crimes were committed, time frame for FUTURE events is irrelevant. Those who committed the crime made their bed. They don't get a bypass because it took time to discover what they did. Justice is not optional.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Incorrect. If they have evidence that crimes were committed, time frame for FUTURE events is irrelevant. Those who committed the crime made their bed. They don't get a bypass because it took time to discover what they did. Justice is not optional.

I changed that post, I often extensively modify during edit.

HOWEVER, we let people who appear to be guilty of a crime go all the time because the justice system did not run correctly. If the IOC does not run correctly (and they sure does not) the same principles of justice apply, depending upon how poorly the IOC performed.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Actually, it completely matches my conclusions. Your "statute of limitations" argument has no logic. Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with a good book on that topic.

Oh you are playing with me now, right?

The logic of statutes of limitations is "Justice requires reasonable time frames"........ and what do you know, that is my argument here.

 

[Quag]

Well there is no excuse then for not univiting them at a reasonable time before the event, out of consideration for fellow humans.

Nope CC is right you find out your prom date is cheating you dump her ass. Dont care if it is 5 mins before the prom.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Nope CC is right you find out your prom date is cheating you dump her ass. Dont care if it is 5 mins before the prom.

In this case the girl has had a reputation for cheating for a long time, a lot of girls are known or suspected of cheating on their guys in the past and there were fresh allegations of cheating from this one with the last guy she was with (SOCHI) that came along some time ago. All that changed of late is that someone new is claiming to know for a fact that she is a cheater.

I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

In the months before Sochi, according to the November WADA report, international doping officials had threatened to revoke the accreditation of Dr. Rodchenkov’s lab because of suspicious discrepancies in sample results and complaints of “external interferences” in the lab’s operations. In November 2013, a disciplinary committee convened in Johannesburg to review the case.

“Despite the substandard performance of the laboratory, there was a distinct desire not to revoke the accreditation of the laboratory prior to the Sochi Olympics,” last year’s WADA report said.
.
.
.
After the Olympics, the praise directed at Dr. Rodchenkov was effusive. He received commendations from not only Mr. Putin, but also the International Olympic Committee and the World Anti-Doping Agency.

A subsequent report published by WADA called Sochi “a milestone in the evolution of the Olympic Games antidoping program.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/sports/russia-doping-sochi-olympics-2014.html?_r=0

 

[Hawkeye10]

SCOTT BLACKMUN, UNITED STATES OLYMPIC COMMITTEE CEO

"The McLaren Report confirms what we have stated previously: the current anti-doping system is broken and urgently requires the attention of everyone interested in protecting clean athletes.

Factbox: Reaction to McLaren report into Russian doping | Reuters

Ya, the thing to focus on here is not that there was yet another bad actor apparently, you focus on the fact that the system is broken. And that broken system should be working on reforming itself above handing out penalties for past wrongs, for cheating which either would have never happened or at least would have been documented long ago if the system was up to snuff.

 

[Quag]

In this case the girl has had a reputation for cheating for a long time, a lot of girls are known or suspected of cheating on their guys in the past and there were fresh allegations of cheating from this one with the last guy she was with (SOCHI) that came along some time ago. All that changed of late is that someone new is claiming to know for a fact that she is a cheater.





http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/sports/russia-doping-sochi-olympics-2014.html?_r=0

So if you stay with a girl after she cheats once you think you need to go to the prom weith her anyway after you find out she still cheats?
Sorry but NOOOO!

 

[Hawkeye10]

So if you stay with a girl after she cheats once you think you need to go to the prom weith her anyway after you find out she still cheats?
Sorry but NOOOO!

I am saying that if you did not give her proper notice, and you had the ability to do so, honor demands that you follow through.

When you find yourself in bed with an ugly woman, best close your eyes, get it over with....

LittleFinger
Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish (Character) - Quotes

 

[justabubba]

July 16 at 8:50 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-stories-2_russiaolympics939pm:homepage/story

THis is complete bull****. You dont uninvite some country anywhere near this late of a date, especially for something as trivial as doping, which has long been a part of the games. Starting a nuclear war, maybe that would be justification.

What say you?

let me know if i got your post wrong

you believe that the athletes that violate the olympics' rules should be allowed to participate against the athletes who complied with the rules

and because it has been proposed that those cheaters should not be allowed to compete because they refused to comply with the rules, that the olympics should be ended

 

[Hawkeye10]

let me know if i got your post wrong

you believe that the athletes that violate the olympics' rules should be allowed to participate against the athletes who complied with the rules

and because it has been proposed that those cheaters should not be allowed to compete because they refused to comply with the rules, that the olympics should be ended

I am saying that you boot people individually now as the evidence warrants, but if the entire country was to be univited from RIO it had to be done months ago, out of fidelity to justice. I might be open to gigging them the next time, if there is a next time, which I hope does not come to pass, because the Olympics need to die again.

I also will say here that I am not that interested in taking this out on the individual people, it is very likely that they did not have much in the way of choice. When the East Germans were doping there was no option, if they wanted to go the the games they had to follow the rules that the East German Government gave them for doing so.

 

[Rogue Valley]

THis is complete bull****. What say you?

Not only was the Russian state exchanging tainted urine samples for clean ones, but last month Russian Security Service (FSB) personnel threatened WADA (Word Anti-Doping Agency) investigators who traveled to Moscow to see if Russia was complying with anti-doping rules and to take new samples from Russian athlete's. WADA investigators were threatened and most Russian athlete's went into hiding to avoid any new WADA urine tests.


Russian doping at Sochi Winter Olympics exposed


Russian insider says state-run doping fueled country's Olympic gold


Russian doctors and athletes ‘switched urine samples’ at Sochi Olympics


Russian Sports Minister Apologizes Over Doping, Pleads For Rio Entry


Russians expected to be among failed doping tests from 2008 Olympics


How Russia Is Trying to Charm Its Way Out of an Olympic Doping Ban


Russia is not a victim of doping, it is a protagonist and should be barred from the Rio Olympics


German TV Report Says Russian Sports Minister Involved In Doping Scandal


Russia doping: New Wada report reveals obstructions to testing


Russia’s track and field team banned from Olympics by IAAF for doping

 

[Hawkeye10]

Not only was the Russian state exchanging tainted urine samples for clean ones, but last month Russian Security Service (FSB) personnel threatened WADA (Word Anti-Doping Agency) investigators who traveled to Moscow to see if Russia was complying with anti-doping rules and to take new samples from Russian athlete's. WADA investigators were threatened and most Russian athlete's went into hiding to avoid any new WADA urine tests.

It reminds me of FIFA, and admitting Greece into the EU.....it has been if not known then it has certainly been highly suspected that irregularities have been taking place for and over a very long time, but now....since we dont like the Russians and want to hit them.... we pretend like this is all new information to us.

State sponsored doping rules violations(Yet Again!)/incompetence and lying.

It is a toss-up which side has behaved the worst.

****em all.

:rantoff:




Note: I am bored with this topic, I am likely done with it.

 

[Quag]

I am saying that if you did not give her proper notice, and you had the ability to do so, honor demands that you follow through.


LittleFinger
Petyr 'Littlefinger' Baelish (Character) - Quotes

BS honor demands that you dump her ass!