lasers

[Goshin]

Yes, this is about gun control... its about controlling your gun. I got to play with one of these at the gunstore yesterday....







I rather liked it. It's 9mm, 7+1, but at 4.5" tall, 6" long and 18oz it could be a pocket gun, and the price is reasonable. I'm actually kind of unsure on the laser, though. With the under-mount, when you raise the gun to eye level you don't really see the dot because the gun is in the way. Now at close quarters I use the pectoral index or center-lock and don't really need a laser for that close... at any greater distance my training and habit is to raise to eye level, letting the sights line up by feel, and again the laser isn't useful in that position. If it is dark enough that I can't see the sights, I probably can't see the target either... in which case I need a LIGHT more than a laser. Thoughts?

 

[Surtr]

Iron sights all the way. If you want an LC9, get the one without the laser for a hundred bucks less. I've heard pretty good things about it; even thought about getting one for the house.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Yes, this is about gun control... its about controlling your gun. I got to play with one of these at the gunstore yesterday....



View attachment 67153635



I rather liked it. It's 9mm, 7+1, but at 4.5" tall, 6" long and 18oz it could be a pocket gun, and the price is reasonable. I'm actually kind of unsure on the laser, though. With the under-mount, when you raise the gun to eye level you don't really see the dot because the gun is in the way. Now at close quarters I use the pectoral index or center-lock and don't really need a laser for that close... at any greater distance my training and habit is to raise to eye level, letting the sights line up by feel, and again the laser isn't useful in that position. If it is dark enough that I can't see the sights, I probably can't see the target either... in which case I need a LIGHT more than a laser. Thoughts?

IMHO a laser is only good for CQB (close quarters battle) in lower light conditions, like going into a house. Outdoors or with good lighting you'll almost always want the iron sights. I figure it can't hurt and it's fun to play with.

 

[TurtleDude]

IMHO a laser is only good for CQB (close quarters battle) in lower light conditions, like going into a house. Outdoors or with good lighting you'll almost always want the iron sights. I figure it can't hurt and it's fun to play with.

Lots of us have flashlights on home defense weapons. I have yet to meet a professional having one on a pistol.

For a guard in a tower at a prison though, they make sense on sniper rifles

 

[Surtr]

Lots of us have flashlights on home defense weapons. I have yet to meet a professional having one on a pistol.

I wouldn't see it as being very practical on a pistol. Throws off the balance of the weapon, and would slow down withdrawing the pistol from a holster that would have to be specifically made for accommodating such an accessory.

 

[TurtleDude]

I wouldn't see it as being very practical on a pistol. Throws off the balance of the weapon, and would slow down withdrawing the pistol from a holster that would have to be specifically made for accommodating such an accessory.

not always true-the crimson trace lasers are in the grip

but I find its far faster to put the front sight on a target than look for a red dot on the target

I have trained for year to concentrate on the front sight rather than a spot on the target

its the way all top pistol shooters shoot

 

[Jerry]

Yes, this is about gun control... its about controlling your gun. I got to play with one of these at the gunstore yesterday....



View attachment 67153635


I rather liked it. It's 9mm, 7+1, but at 4.5" tall, 6" long and 18oz it could be a pocket gun, and the price is reasonable. I'm actually kind of unsure on the laser, though. With the under-mount, when you raise the gun to eye level you don't really see the dot because the gun is in the way. Now at close quarters I use the pectoral index or center-lock and don't really need a laser for that close... at any greater distance my training and habit is to raise to eye level, letting the sights line up by feel, and again the laser isn't useful in that position. If it is dark enough that I can't see the sights, I probably can't see the target either... in which case I need a LIGHT more than a laser. Thoughts?

I'm a big fan of the green laser on a S&W 642 for close shooting at night (my most likely scenario).

 

[Jerry]

Lots of us have flashlights on home defense weapons. I have yet to meet a professional having one on a pistol.

For a guard in a tower at a prison though, they make sense on sniper rifles

The first officer on scene of the Treyvon shooting had one on his gun. I caught that detail when that officer took the stand.

 

[TurtleDude]

The first officer on scene of the Treyvon shooting had one on his gun. I caught that detail when that officer took the stand.

flashlight or a laser?

 

[Surtr]

not always true-the crimson trace lasers are in the grip

but I find its far faster to put the front sight on a target than look for a red dot on the target

I have trained for year to concentrate on the front sight rather than a spot on the target

its the way all top pistol shooters shoot

I was talking about flashlights.

 

[TurtleDude]

I was talking about flashlights.

thanks, and that makes sense

the glock and the shotgun we keep in our bedroom both have flashlights on them

 

[Goshin]

I was talking about flashlights.

I think we're getting flashlights and lasers confused.


We need to be specific.

Flashlights on long guns, sure. Flashlights on handguns... well there are some, but the ones I've seen cost a mint and aren't really small enough for ease of concealed carry... so I usually just carry a small flashlight in my pocket, which is always handy for a variety of purposes.


I think lasers are probably good for middling-to-average shooters. I'm having trouble convincing myself I need one.

 

[Jerry]

flashlight or a laser?

While describing his actions in handcuffing Zimmerman, he was asked how he was able to see in the dark pathway. He said he had a light. The lawyer asked him which hand he was holding his flashlight in, the officer said the flashlight was mounted on his service pistol.

 

[Surtr]

thanks, and that makes sense

the glock and the shotgun we keep in our bedroom both have flashlights on them

You said flashlights in the first part, so that's what I thought you were talking about. My mistake. They're very useful on long guns (attach it to a rail and go), and pistols that aren't going to be carried (like a house gun). On a carry weapon, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They're still big and cumbersome for proper holster carry. I'd honestly like to see an effective flashlight the size of the laser on the LC9 featured in the OP. That would be an awesome little piece of technology that I would gladly attach to a pistol.

 

[Surtr]

I think we're getting flashlights and lasers confused.

Just a little communication error. No big deal.

Flashlights on long guns, sure. Flashlights on handguns... well there are some, but the ones I've seen cost a mint and aren't really small enough for ease of concealed carry... so I usually just carry a small flashlight in my pocket, which is always handy for a variety of purposes.

I'm cool with flashlights. I had an LED light attached to my 10/22 for a while, and it did what it was supposed to do. I don't see a big problem with having one on a full sized service-type pistol, either. With holstered/carry pistols, I just see a lot of problems. The main one being having to actually draw it from the holster. Too many ways to get snagged and screw you when you need to pull your gun quickly.

I think lasers are probably good for middling-to-average shooters. I'm having trouble convincing myself I need one.

I know I don't. Only thing I use a laser for is to **** with my roommates cat.

 

[Bob N]

Yes, this is about gun control... its about controlling your gun. I got to play with one of these at the gunstore yesterday....







I rather liked it. It's 9mm, 7+1, but at 4.5" tall, 6" long and 18oz it could be a pocket gun, and the price is reasonable. I'm actually kind of unsure on the laser, though. With the under-mount, when you raise the gun to eye level you don't really see the dot because the gun is in the way. Now at close quarters I use the pectoral index or center-lock and don't really need a laser for that close... at any greater distance my training and habit is to raise to eye level, letting the sights line up by feel, and again the laser isn't useful in that position. If it is dark enough that I can't see the sights, I probably can't see the target either... in which case I need a LIGHT more than a laser. Thoughts?

Goshin: I agree with you. From the size of that gun a person would need to protect themselves real quick and close. Lets face it: under self-defense circumstances you sure are not looking for a judge to hand you a trophy for beating on accurate shooting.

 

[TurtleDude]

Goshin: I agree with you. From the size of that gun a person would need to protect themselves real quick and close. Lets face it: under self-defense circumstances you sure are not looking for a judge to hand you a trophy for beating on accurate shooting.

speed is nice but
accuracy is fatal

attributed to Wyatt Earp

 

[Goshin]

Goshin: I agree with you. From the size of that gun a person would need to protect themselves real quick and close. Lets face it: under self-defense circumstances you sure are not looking for a judge to hand you a trophy for beating on accurate shooting.

Well, maxing accuracy isn't a bad thing if you can. I'm just not sure the laser would be that useful to me.

At arm's length or so I don't use the sights, but rather a biomechanical index point shooting method. It's good enough to put most rounds within a 6" span in practice, which means I should be able to put most rounds into the central torso in an actual close-combat incident. No real need for the laser; probably wouldn't have time to look and see the dot anyway.

At longer ranges I raise to eye level. Lots of training typically lines my sights up automatically as I hit full extension, and I don't really need to see them unless I'm trying to be very precise or shooting at a much longer range than would be typical for self-protection purposes. To see the laser dot I'd have to break my iso-lock and lower the gun below eye-level, and I don't see that as being efficient when I'm already used to the other method. If I can't see the sights I probably can't see the target, so I need a light to ID my target anyway... unless maybe I'm shooting at muzzle flashes.

Somebody who felt less sure of their marksmanship would probably find the laser useful. I just don't think I would, much.

 

[CRUE CAB]

I have one for my rifles. Good for practice getting on target. How they would work in a real life situation? I guess you would have to find someone thats been in a gunfight with one.

 

[Lutherf]

Yes, this is about gun control... its about controlling your gun. I got to play with one of these at the gunstore yesterday....




I rather liked it. It's 9mm, 7+1, but at 4.5" tall, 6" long and 18oz it could be a pocket gun, and the price is reasonable. I'm actually kind of unsure on the laser, though. With the under-mount, when you raise the gun to eye level you don't really see the dot because the gun is in the way. Now at close quarters I use the pectoral index or center-lock and don't really need a laser for that close... at any greater distance my training and habit is to raise to eye level, letting the sights line up by feel, and again the laser isn't useful in that position. If it is dark enough that I can't see the sights, I probably can't see the target either... in which case I need a LIGHT more than a laser. Thoughts?

My thoughts on lasers......if you're eyes are focused on the front sight like they're supposed to be then the laser isn't much use. I just see bad habits developing from using such gadgets at the range.

 

[Goshin]

My thoughts on lasers......if you're eyes are focused on the front sight like they're supposed to be then the laser isn't much use. I just see bad habits developing from using such gadgets at the range.

I've never fooled with them before. Grew up on iron sights, limited optics on rifles.

I just noted, in playing with the one in the gun store, that when I hit my stance with the gun aimed in iso-lock at eye level, the dot was a smidge below my line of sight where I'm looking over the front sight.

Now if it was hovering right OVER the front sight, confirming my point-of-aim, THAT would be useful. However if I have to break my iso-lock stance to see the laser dot, I'm throwing away the body mechanics I've painstakingly learned to use to align up the shot (just using the sights more for visual confirmation than anything else).

That seems ... well, messed up to me. The dot ought to be visible over the top of the front sight.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Most definitely get a flashlight that will temporary blind an assailant. Something with 250 lumens or more with a strobe function. Then you may not need a laser as night sights should suffice.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Yes, this is about gun control... its about controlling your gun. I got to play with one of these at the gunstore yesterday....

I rather liked it. It's 9mm, 7+1, but at 4.5" tall, 6" long and 18oz it could be a pocket gun, and the price is reasonable. I'm actually kind of unsure on the laser, though. With the under-mount, when you raise the gun to eye level you don't really see the dot because the gun is in the way. Now at close quarters I use the pectoral index or center-lock and don't really need a laser for that close... at any greater distance my training and habit is to raise to eye level, letting the sights line up by feel, and again the laser isn't useful in that position. If it is dark enough that I can't see the sights, I probably can't see the target either... in which case I need a LIGHT more than a laser. Thoughts?

Dang and here I thought that when you said "lasers" in the thread title this thread was going to actually be about laser guns.

:2wave:

 

[Jerry]

Most definitely get a flashlight that will temporary blind an assailant. Something with 250 lumens or more with a strobe function. Then you may not need a laser as night sights should suffice.

A nice green laser will blind them...maybe permanently.

 

[tech30528]

I have a laser for my Walther P22. I don't see it as a tactical item, keep in mind that the laser works the other way too. Ask a police officer who carries a flashlight that is not mounted to their firearm and they will tell you that they hold the light up high and away from their body because that is what a shooter will focus on. The laser is nice for practice (dry fire) Because it helps you to develop your natural point of aim. Once you get that you no longer need the laser. In a defense situation you do not need to be so accurate that you need a laser. You are going to be operating at 21 feet or less (or you are going to be charged for shooting the guy) and your kill zones are 8 inches across. But a laser is very useful as a practice tool. My pistol laser is currently mounted upside down on a tactical rail and attached to a blank rifle stock for a 10 22. I use it for demonstrating shooting positions and natural point of aim exercises. We are not allowed to use an actual rifle as a demonstrator and the laser is great for it.