Lane Splitting Motorcycles: Legal Or Illegal?

[Ikari]

IMO, the idea that "loud pipes save lives" is a fallacy. I agree with Mycroft on that issue. Depending upon wind direction and speed of the motorcycle and wind, because of the Doppler effect, most loud pipes are not heard as the bike approaches any given point.

As practiced today so often, I think loud pipes are rude behavior. I love the sound of the Harley engine, I really do, but the noise is pollution in many cases.

I think most people who think it is a fallacy are merely annoyed with the really loud bikes and refuse to consider that it could indeed alert someone, not that it should be solely relied upon.

But here's the thing. Wind direction? Speed of the motorcycle? Do you think that somehow prevents the forward propagation of sound waves? There are many things that can affect the speed of sound, pressure, humidity, etc. Because pipes are pointed backwards, the loudest area is indeed behind the bike. But do you think there is no sound in front? How fast does a bike have to go for there to be no sound in front (pssst....greater than the speed of sound). And the Doppler effect is a frequency change, not a cancellation. Red shift or blue shift the perceived frequency depending on direction, the degree of the shift is dependent upon velocity.

There is always going to be sound waves traveling in front of and to the sides of a motorcycle. While the loudest noises will indeed be backwards out of the pipes, the sound isn't exclusively propagated backwards. While there are certainly effects that can affect the intensity of the noise, it would be really hard under normal circumstances to completely cancel all sound radiating from the bike in all directions other than backwards. If we want to say there are a lot of factors that can effect the perception of sound by a motorcycle, including things like the radio in a cab, or other forms of noise pollution/sources, then yes, clearly. But it won't stop the actual propagation of sound.

Loud pipes can be obnoxious, they can be rude. But a lot less rude than come guy in a car who can't be bothered to check his blind spots before changing lanes.

 

[Mycroft]

I think most people who think it is a fallacy are merely annoyed with the really loud bikes and refuse to consider that it could indeed alert someone, not that it should be solely relied upon.

But here's the thing. Wind direction? Speed of the motorcycle? Do you think that somehow prevents the forward propagation of sound waves? There are many things that can affect the speed of sound, pressure, humidity, etc. Because pipes are pointed backwards, the loudest area is indeed behind the bike. But do you think there is no sound in front? How fast does a bike have to go for there to be no sound in front (pssst....greater than the speed of sound). And the Doppler effect? Let me ask you this? Just what do you think the Doppler Effect will do? Will it cancel sound traveling in front of the bike? It's a frequency change, not a cancellation. Red shift or blue shift the perceived frequency depending on direction, the degree of the shift is dependent upon velocity.

There is always going to be sound waves traveling in front of and to the sides of a motorcycle. While the loudest noises will indeed be backwards out of the pipes, the sound isn't exclusively propagated backwards. While there are certainly effects that can affect the intensity of the noise, it would be really hard under normal circumstances to completely cancel all sound radiating from the bike in all directions other than backwards.

Loud pipes can be obnoxious, they can be rude. But a lot less rude than come guy in a car who can't be bothered to check his blind spots before changing lanes.

Instead of relying on obnoxiously loud pipes, I suggest fellow riders do like I do when I'm on my Goldwing: rely on safe riding habits. They work better.

 

[Ikari]

Instead of relying on obnoxiously loud pipes, I suggest fellow riders do like I do when I'm on my Goldwing: rely on safe riding habits. They work better.

Oh hey, did I say it should be relied upon? Oh...look....right there in the first sentence. No I didn't. I explicitly said it shouldn't be solely relied upon.

Safe riding habits are always a must, proper defensive driving and being aware of one's surroundings are the best defense against inattentive and aggressive drivers. Never said anything to the contrary. So thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

 

[Mycroft]

Oh hey, did I say it should be relied upon? Oh...look....right there in the first sentence. No I didn't. I explicitly said it shouldn't be solely relied upon.

Safe riding habits are always a must, proper defensive driving and being aware of one's surroundings are the best defense against inattentive and aggressive drivers. Never said anything to the contrary. So thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

If one is going to do all that, then why would one even want to have loud pipes? Perhaps for the same reason people blast their bass all over the environment...to bother people?

 

[Ikari]

If one is going to do all that, then why would one even want to have loud pipes? Perhaps for the same reason people blast their bass all over the environment...to bother people?

Just another precaution. Add it to the list of armaments against inattentive drivers. If I'm going all the way to do my best to protect myself from horrible drivers, why wouldn't I go just a little bit more? I mean, if you're so attentive, why wear a helmet, yes? Why have leather/armor, yes? Because we need as much as we can get, and loud pipes can add a little bit more on top of what we have.

If there's ever a day when no one drives like an ass and riding is as safe as any other form of automobile transportation, then we can probably be at the point where we can say that loud pipes are overkill. But we're not. And if there's a choice between someone being annoyed by a loud noise and someone possibly remaining alive or the elimination of minor inconveniences of others...I'm going with the possibility that someone remains alive.

 

[Mycroft]

Just another precaution. Add it to the list of armaments against inattentive drivers. If I'm going all the way to do my best to protect myself from horrible drivers, why wouldn't I go just a little bit more? I mean, if you're so attentive, why wear a helmet, yes? Why have leather/armor, yes? Because we need as much as we can get, and loud pipes can add a little bit more on top of what we have.

If there's ever a day when no one drives like an ass and riding is as safe as any other form of automobile transportation, then we can probably be at the point where we can say that loud pipes are overkill. But we're not. And if there's a choice between someone being annoyed by a loud noise and someone possibly remaining alive or the elimination of minor inconveniences of others...I'm going with the possibility that someone remains alive.

LOL!!

Why not go whole hog...build a cage around your bike...mount a constant-sounding siren...or why not pass laws to build motorcycle-only roads?

Because some things just go too far...that's why. Loud, obnoxious exhaust pipes go too far.

 

[Thoreau72]

I think most people who think it is a fallacy are merely annoyed with the really loud bikes and refuse to consider that it could indeed alert someone, not that it should be solely relied upon.

But here's the thing. Wind direction? Speed of the motorcycle? Do you think that somehow prevents the forward propagation of sound waves? There are many things that can affect the speed of sound, pressure, humidity, etc. Because pipes are pointed backwards, the loudest area is indeed behind the bike. But do you think there is no sound in front? How fast does a bike have to go for there to be no sound in front (pssst....greater than the speed of sound). And the Doppler effect is a frequency change, not a cancellation. Red shift or blue shift the perceived frequency depending on direction, the degree of the shift is dependent upon velocity.

There is always going to be sound waves traveling in front of and to the sides of a motorcycle. While the loudest noises will indeed be backwards out of the pipes, the sound isn't exclusively propagated backwards. While there are certainly effects that can affect the intensity of the noise, it would be really hard under normal circumstances to completely cancel all sound radiating from the bike in all directions other than backwards. If we want to say there are a lot of factors that can effect the perception of sound by a motorcycle, including things like the radio in a cab, or other forms of noise pollution/sources, then yes, clearly. But it won't stop the actual propagation of sound.

Loud pipes can be obnoxious, they can be rude. But a lot less rude than come guy in a car who can't be bothered to check his blind spots before changing lanes.

We are in agreement.

As to noise propagation and the Doppler effect, it is much more easily demonstrated with faster moving vehicles and especially aircraft. I have seen it demonstrated many times.

Yes, until the speed is probably over 60 or 70, the effect is minimal. Yes, to the observer on the ground, the wind direction and velocity enters into the equation. Again, the stronger the wind, the more obvious the effect. Calm wind has no effect.

It is really dramatic to an observer on the ground when an aircraft at supersonic speeds flies overhead, as happened to me twice during my brief time in the military. It is really wild to see a Phantom go by in silence, with the sound following shortly behind. Again depending upon the wind direction and speed, a fast moving train can demonstrate the same effect.

 

[Joe51]

Is the claim really that a harley with a good set of pipes can't be heard as it approaches to pass? I'm all for adding a little science to the conversation, but if it can't be heard, it wouldn't be considered annoying by some?

I don't think anyone will argue that you cant ride a quiet bike safely, but you can also ride safely along the white line. I ride in the middle of the lane to increase my chance of being seen in the rear view. I put a good set of pipes to increase my chance of being heard. I flash my break lights before I start reducing speed. All of these things save lives. Sorry if you're annoyed. I must live.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

 

[Ikari]

LOL!!

Why not go whole hog...build a cage around your bike...mount a constant-sounding siren...or why not pass laws to build motorcycle-only roads?

Because some things just go too far...that's why. Loud, obnoxious exhaust pipes go too far.

If that is practical, do it. If you want it, do it. I'm not going to stop someone from "building a cage" around their bike if they want.

Loud, obnoxious pipes are loud and obnoxious. But no one has ever died from hearing them. So while it offers the possibility of alerting people, and it does, I'm not going to be that upset by them while there are people behaving in ways that DO kill people.

Sort of getting my priorities straight. Hmmm...what should I be more upset about? Poor driving skills and inattentive driving that leads to injury and death, or a momentary inconvenience....Hmmmmm.....I wonder how to list these things.....let's see.........I don't know, momentary inconveniences can be rather upsetting. But then on the other hand there's death, that's more of a permanent inconvienence.......let's see.........let's think about this..............momentary noise pollution vs. dead people.........man this is tough. I just can't think about how I should rank these on the priority list....you know.......it's so tough. 10 seconds of listening to some loud pipes or dead people? Which to be more upset about......I'm going to have to get back with you because I just don't know how to rank my outrage.

:roll: