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Kyle and Krystal vs. Cenk on MAGA

Dans La Lune

Do you read Sutter Cane?
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What an embarrassing downfall for Cenk. Krystal kind of bends him over on his failed strategy of trying to appeal to the handful of gettable MAGA voters at the cost of the alienating the Left, while the Left have produced the actual results and actual resistance against Trump 2.0.

You don't lure MAGA voters in by changing your values and meeting them in the middle (which is an illusion, there is no middle). You defeat them and build a better world.
 
If you think CHAZ is a better world then you don’t belong here.
 

How do you 'defeat' them? They're winning at the polls; the left is not.
 
Hmmm...

Talking potato heads get into a "heated debate" and people care. Who would have thought?
 
We DO need to try to get MANGA voters supporting Democrats. We need to do it by their changing THEIR views, not by compromising. For one example, see Bernie's "FIGHT OLIGARCHY" campaign in red areas - it's not compromise, it's helping the people understand issues better. The problem is the indoctrination from big money corrupt interests and the right-wing media that serves them.
 

No clue who these clowns are and no desire to learn.
 

All you have to do is ask Cenk about the Armenian genocide to know he’s a reactionary, not a progressive.
 
One thing I would hope Democrats would learn from the last election is that if you try to win over Republican voters all you wind up doing is getting Republicans voters.
 

You get people to change their views by disproving (defeating) those views, with strength and conviction, not acquiescence. The problem with Dems is that they constantly concede the Republican framing. Once you've conceded the framing, it's a question of how do you achieve the objectives on the argument that Republicans manufacture.

Dems have nowhere to go on immigration, for example, because they've conceded the argument. They can't resist Trump on foreign policy, similarly, because they've conceded the argument. They can BARELY fight on the economy, because again, they've conceded the neoliberal (conservative) framing. College protests, Dems have utterly given the Republicans all the tools and arguments to crack down. Trump basically needs to act like Godzilla on a rampage before Dems gain any ground.

Progressives have solutions and arguments that Dems do not and cannot employ, because Dems are intent on being Republican-lite; the Wish version of the GOP. The arguments are all conceded in order to appeal to the "middle", which (in reality) is a fabrication, because the middle is an arbitrary point between to two arbitrary positions. Nobody exists between between Obama/Biden/Clinton and Trump, and hasn't already made up their mind, that is worth appealing to. Thus, the Kamala campaign employed the single worst strategy of all available strategies. They lost the base and were still considered too liberal for the pickle-brains who couldn't decide between the positions of Liz Cheney and Donald Trump.

In conclusion, Republicans are pile of shit. Dems are half a pile of shit. People who enjoy eating shit are going to gravitate to the bigger pile.
 
multivita-man said:
The left can't even win Democratic primaries.
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Rock, Paper, Scissors. Progressives could beat Republicans, but they cannot beat Democrats, Republicans and the Corporate Media combined. Dems control the party and are committed to the status quo. We now have James Clyburn endorsing Andrew Cuomo, a cartoonishly corrupt sex pest who is responsible for untold deaths during COVID.

That's the party apparatus progressives have to fight to reach Republicans.
 
multivita-man said:
In heavily Democratic districts.

What about swing districts?
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Look at the popularity of progressive policy, even in red states. If you can't win on popular policy, it's because the party (*coughdonors*) doesn't want the policy. FDR won so many times on a progressive agenda that they had to enact term limits.

The roadmap is there, Dems just don't want to take it. They'd rather be a Wish version of Republicans, because their donors are the same.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Look at the popularity of progressive policy, even in red states. If you can't win on popular policy, it's because the party (*coughdonors*) doesn't want the policy. FDR won so many times on a progressive agenda that they had to enact term limits.
Click to expand...

He won on a progressive agenda because the people of his generation had just lived through a real economic crisis of scarcity. The Great Recession of 2008 doesn't count because the country was bailed out. I'm not saying it wasn't bad - it was, and some never recovered. But we solved that crisis by borrowing against the future, just like we did in 2020.
 

Um, people are resorting to fascism. That's how bad things are, economically, materially. Fascism doesn't fall out of a coconut tree. It cannot exist in a healthy society.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Um, people are resorting to fascism. That's how bad things are, economically, materially. Fascism doesn't fall out of a coconut tree. It cannot exist in a healthy society.
Click to expand...

My point is that the Overton window isn't going to open until there's a financial collapse.
 
I think Cenk overestimated how useful Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, and MTG are on pushing back on Trump. But on the war issue, Kyle and Krystal are dead wrong. In the end, Trump might fold and give up because his voters hate it because of the push back. The chances the left stops the war are zilch.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Um, people are resorting to fascism. That's how bad things are, economically, materially. Fascism doesn't fall out of a coconut tree. It cannot exist in a healthy society.
Click to expand...

You're completely wrong, as usual. We are not even in the ball park of having a fascist government.

Economically, fascism and socialism are extremely similar, so you shouldn't even be complaining. They are also very similar politically - one party state, political repression, totalitarian, etc.
 
Oddly, the US switched radically from Republicans to FDR because of the Great Republican Depression; and Germans switched from their democratic system to Hitler's fascism primarily for the same reason. The same effect at a big change, but it seems it was sort of luck what they got instead. It's like I think any Democrat has a good chance in 2028 as backlash - but it could be a good or bad candidate.
 
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