• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Kremlin TV Descends Into Screaming Match Over Putin’s War Failures

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,151
Reaction score
8,234
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
“Political analyst Vitaly Tretyakov concluded: “The situation is serious... We have to admit that there was no psychological breakthrough in our operation, where the opposing side would lose their will to resist... The resistance from the Ukrainian side is neither stopping nor weakening.” Tretyakov pointed out that despite the Russian media’s attempted depictions of Zelensky as a drug addict, he is being perceived by the West as a leader of a country that has been attacked. He also questioned the wisdom of “liberating” Ukrainians who don’t seem to want to be “liberated” and vehemently hate seeing the Russian troops on their territory. Tretyakov noted the unwavering determination of Western leaders to “squeeze” the Russian economy by imposing punishing sanctions.

Host, Olga Skabeeva, was visibly rattled by the depressing realities brought to the forefront by Tretyakov’s comments. She sniped: “So you sprinkled the ashes all over your head, but what do we do now? What’s our plan? Everything is bad, nothing is working out?” Skabeeva angrily questioned whether Tretyakov had anything to offer aside from criticism. After he pointed out that societies tend to get tired of any military campaigns rather quickly, Skabeeva argued: “If you’re tired, that doesn't mean that everyone else is tired.” Visibly angered, she repeatedly shouted at Tretyakov, questioning his support for the Russian military and telling the pundit that his commentary “has a smell of something untoward.”


And that is what happens when truth gets exposed on Russian state TV—it gets shouted down.
Sounds sorta like FOX, doesn’t it?
 

NolanVoyd

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
16,868
Reaction score
9,505
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
“Political analyst Vitaly Tretyakov concluded: “The situation is serious... We have to admit that there was no psychological breakthrough in our operation, where the opposing side would lose their will to resist... The resistance from the Ukrainian side is neither stopping nor weakening.” Tretyakov pointed out that despite the Russian media’s attempted depictions of Zelensky as a drug addict, he is being perceived by the West as a leader of a country that has been attacked. He also questioned the wisdom of “liberating” Ukrainians who don’t seem to want to be “liberated” and vehemently hate seeing the Russian troops on their territory. Tretyakov noted the unwavering determination of Western leaders to “squeeze” the Russian economy by imposing punishing sanctions.

Host, Olga Skabeeva, was visibly rattled by the depressing realities brought to the forefront by Tretyakov’s comments. She sniped: “So you sprinkled the ashes all over your head, but what do we do now? What’s our plan? Everything is bad, nothing is working out?” Skabeeva angrily questioned whether Tretyakov had anything to offer aside from criticism. After he pointed out that societies tend to get tired of any military campaigns rather quickly, Skabeeva argued: “If you’re tired, that doesn't mean that everyone else is tired.” Visibly angered, she repeatedly shouted at Tretyakov, questioning his support for the Russian military and telling the pundit that his commentary “has a smell of something untoward.”


And that is what happens when truth gets exposed on Russian state TV—it gets shouted down.
Sounds sorta like FOX, doesn’t it?
I am surprised he was even allowed to say it.
 

btthegreat

DP Veteran
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
5,596
Reaction score
3,216
Location
Lebanon Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
“Political analyst Vitaly Tretyakov concluded: “The situation is serious... We have to admit that there was no psychological breakthrough in our operation, where the opposing side would lose their will to resist... The resistance from the Ukrainian side is neither stopping nor weakening.” Tretyakov pointed out that despite the Russian media’s attempted depictions of Zelensky as a drug addict, he is being perceived by the West as a leader of a country that has been attacked. He also questioned the wisdom of “liberating” Ukrainians who don’t seem to want to be “liberated” and vehemently hate seeing the Russian troops on their territory. Tretyakov noted the unwavering determination of Western leaders to “squeeze” the Russian economy by imposing punishing sanctions.

Host, Olga Skabeeva, was visibly rattled by the depressing realities brought to the forefront by Tretyakov’s comments. She sniped: “So you sprinkled the ashes all over your head, but what do we do now? What’s our plan? Everything is bad, nothing is working out?” Skabeeva angrily questioned whether Tretyakov had anything to offer aside from criticism. After he pointed out that societies tend to get tired of any military campaigns rather quickly, Skabeeva argued: “If you’re tired, that doesn't mean that everyone else is tired.” Visibly angered, she repeatedly shouted at Tretyakov, questioning his support for the Russian military and telling the pundit that his commentary “has a smell of something untoward.”


And that is what happens when truth gets exposed on Russian state TV—it gets shouted down.
Sounds sorta like FOX, doesn’t it?
This Skabeeva lost this exchange. What is fascinating is that someone on that network allowed this segment to be aired in the first place. That 'someone' is not as terrified of the 'Russian state' part of television network , as Putin would hope. These stories ( and this is not the first) represents cracks in his media propaganda wall, that Putin cannot afford very damn often right now.
 

maxparrish

Conservatarian
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
11,977
Reaction score
7,385
Location
SF Bay Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
“Political analyst Vitaly Tretyakov concluded: “The situation is serious... We have to admit that there was no psychological breakthrough in our operation, where the opposing side would lose their will to resist... The resistance from the Ukrainian side is neither stopping nor weakening.” Tretyakov pointed out that despite the Russian media’s attempted depictions of Zelensky as a drug addict, he is being perceived by the West as a leader of a country that has been attacked. He also questioned the wisdom of “liberating” Ukrainians who don’t seem to want to be “liberated” and vehemently hate seeing the Russian troops on their territory. Tretyakov noted the unwavering determination of Western leaders to “squeeze” the Russian economy by imposing punishing sanctions.

Host, Olga Skabeeva, was visibly rattled by the depressing realities brought to the forefront by Tretyakov’s comments. She sniped: “So you sprinkled the ashes all over your head, but what do we do now? What’s our plan? Everything is bad, nothing is working out?” Skabeeva angrily questioned whether Tretyakov had anything to offer aside from criticism. After he pointed out that societies tend to get tired of any military campaigns rather quickly, Skabeeva argued: “If you’re tired, that doesn't mean that everyone else is tired.” Visibly angered, she repeatedly shouted at Tretyakov, questioning his support for the Russian military and telling the pundit that his commentary “has a smell of something untoward.”


And that is what happens when truth gets exposed on Russian state TV—it gets shouted down.
Sounds sorta like FOX, doesn’t it?

Ya, it does. But in Russia it takes a hell of a lot more courage to tell the truth when the FSB is waiting in the studio lobby.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
58,769
Reaction score
18,473
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
DISH took away RTV but left China CGTN, which refuses to use the term ‘war’, and peddles Tass propaganda. CGTN has considerable coverage of Africa.

I can’t listen to the treasonous shit on newsmax and the fox channels, but sometimes put them on mute on one of the 4 smart channels to see their headlines.
 

CaughtInThe

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
80,075
Reaction score
62,832
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Can't they just up the airtime of Tucker Carlson?

Why can't they take the words of the Russian propagandists on this board and spread them on their social media?
 

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,151
Reaction score
8,234
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Can't they just up the airtime of Tucker Carlson?

Why can't they take the words of the Russian propagandists on this board and spread them on their social media?

I note that we are not hearing much today from two of the main Putin social media hack room chatters oneworld2 and Bave. Perhaps their usefulness has expired in this room and they have been given another assignment.
 

btthegreat

DP Veteran
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
5,596
Reaction score
3,216
Location
Lebanon Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Ya, it does. But in Russia it takes a hell of a lot more courage to tell the truth when the FSB is waiting in the studio lobby.
the real point here, is that someone in the control booth, the director, producer ow whoever probably knew where Tretyakov was likely to head, and nobody in that booth was inclined to cut this exchange off. The FSB is going to need several sets of handcuffs as they ride away from the STATE RUN television network. It shows that there is at least a little depth to the dissatisfaction with this Putin 'anti-nazi operation', and sufficient passion behind it that some people are willing to take some pretty big risks for 2 minute of unpurified airtime.
 

Linc

NIMBY
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
58,769
Reaction score
18,473
Location
IL—16
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I note that we are not hearing much today from two of the main Putin social media hack room chatters oneworld2 and Bave. Perhaps their usefulness has expired in this room and they have been given another assignment.
Kind of hard to defend the 300 dead children, women and elderly in the theatre.
 

maxparrish

Conservatarian
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
11,977
Reaction score
7,385
Location
SF Bay Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
the real point here, is that someone in the control booth, the director, producer ow whoever probably knew where Tretyakov was likely to head, and nobody in that booth was inclined to cut this exchange off. The FSB is going to need several sets of handcuffs as they ride away from the STATE RUN television network. It shows that there is at least a little depth to the dissatisfaction with this Putin 'anti-nazi operation', and sufficient passion behind it that some people are willing to take some pretty big risks for 2 minute of unpurified airtime.

Well, I was ready to write a pessimistic assessment of the story when you had to come along and cheer me up.

So in retrospect, the appearance of cracks on Russian TV is the first bit of heartening news out of Russia I have read. The protests were welcome, but perceived as the complaints of the usual suspects.

Finally, it appears that the Russian public is starting to be exposed to some of the reality hidden from them. Still, it is also clear there are plenty of reactionary diehards who support doubling down on their Russian fascism.

The good news is that some of the Putin supporters are emotionally affected by the scenes of death and destruction, meaning there is a human being behind the Russia Uber Alles mentality. Just as it's disturbing is the desperate denialism and rationalization to avoid its full implications. One person note that the victims will be paid 100 dollars (US) for their destroyed houses and homes.. And someone else will point out that in Sakhalin island, where Ukrainians have been kidnapped and shipped to, pays "the highest wages".

And then there are those that blame the victims, that those who are behind the info war need to be tried just like those Nazi criminals. While yet another Duma member and general blames Zelensky as a "war criminal" because he will not surrender.

But Tretyako's observations and conclusions were spot on. The truth of it so rattled the Host Olga Skabeeva she reverts to sniping, angry at criticism, shouting at the truth teller and asserting he is all but a traitor.

One military "expert" who "knows the solution", just use military force on protestors and imprison all critics. And then commit to a military occupation of 15 or 20 years, if not more.

General Shamanov, however, was even more pessimistic. He grimly anticipated that it would take the “re-education” of at least two generations of Ukrainians before they would welcome or tolerate Russia’s dominance. He also noted that Russia’s one-million-man armed forces aren’t enough to meet such a challenge, calling for massive increases to the country’s military might. Shamilov concluded: “Today, it can be clearly predicted that we will have to remain in Ukraine for 30-40 years.”

Finally, as btthegreat noted the fact that the producers let it run its full course is a very positive sign...some people in the establishment want to hear truth.

Hopefully that truth will set them free, not serve as an excuse to turn totally Stalinist.
 
Last edited:

TheParser

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 12, 2018
Messages
12,889
Reaction score
6,170
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I am surprised he was even allowed to say it.
Dang!

Maybe there is more freedom of speech in Russia than we have assumed.

Or is it a clever ruse on the part of the Russians?

I remember reading that before World War II, the Nazis in Germany allowed a certain newspaper to print mildly critical articles because the Nazi knew that the newspaper in question was highly respected by some influential people in other countries. The Nazis wanted those influencers to testify to the freedom of speech that existed in Nazi Germany.
 

Rogue Valley

Putin = War Criminal
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
81,419
Reaction score
66,403
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Olga Skabeeva and her husband, Yevgeny Popov, have long hosted a political program on Russian state television Channel One (Pervyy Kanal) called 60 Minut (60 Minutes)

Basically, it is 60 minutes of Kremlin propaganda with the talking head guests agreeing with it all and making dire predictions.

The program airs snippets from both Tucker Carlson and Rand Paul (and Trump when he was president).

iu

Olga Skabeeva and Yevgeny Popov hosting 60 Minut
 

btthegreat

DP Veteran
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
5,596
Reaction score
3,216
Location
Lebanon Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Well, I was ready to write a pessimistic assessment of the story when you had to come along and cheer me up.

So in retrospect, the appearance of cracks on Russian TV is the first bit of heartening news out of Russia I have read. The protests were welcome, but perceived as the complaints of the usual suspects.

Finally, it appears that the Russian public is starting to be exposed to some of the reality hidden from them. Still, it is also clear there are plenty of reactionary diehards who support doubling down on their Russian fascism.

The good news is that some of the Putin supporters are emotionally affected by the scenes of death and destruction, meaning there is a human being behind the Russia Uber Alles mentality. Just as it's disturbing is the desperate denialism and rationalization to avoid its full implications. One person note that the victims will be paid 100 dollars (US) for their destroyed houses and homes.. And someone else will point out that in Sakhalin island, where Ukrainians have been kidnapped and shipped to, pays "the highest wages".

And then there are those that blame the victims, that those who are behind the info war need to be tried just like those Nazi criminals. While yet another Duma member and general blames Zelensky as a "war criminal" because he will not surrender.

But Tretyako's observations and conclusions were spot on. The truth of it so rattled the Host Olga Skabeeva she reverts to sniping, angry at criticism, shouting at the truth teller and asserting he is all but a traitor.

One military "expert" who "knows the solution", just use military force on protestors and imprison all critics. And then commit to a military occupation of 15 or 20 years, if not more.

General Shamanov, however, was even more pessimistic. He grimly anticipated that it would take the “re-education” of at least two generations of Ukrainians before they would welcome or tolerate Russia’s dominance. He also noted that Russia’s one-million-man armed forces aren’t enough to meet such a challenge, calling for massive increases to the country’s military might. Shamilov concluded: “Today, it can be clearly predicted that we will have to remain in Ukraine for 30-40 years.”

Finally, as btthegreat noted the fact that the producers let it run its full course is a very positive sign...some people in the establishment want to hear truth.

Hopefully that truth will set them free, not serve as an excuse to turn totally Stalinist.
I hasten to add, these are just small little cracks in that wall of Putin's holding out war dissent, but a little crack, here, a little crack there and about ten more on the same wall, and its time to worry about some serious problems like pest infestation, dry rot, moisture and mold.
 

NolanVoyd

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
16,868
Reaction score
9,505
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Dang!

Maybe there is more freedom of speech in Russia than we have assumed.

Or is it a clever ruse on the part of the Russians?

I remember reading that before World War II, the Nazis in Germany allowed a certain newspaper to print mildly critical articles because the Nazi knew that the newspaper in question was highly respected by some influential people in other countries. The Nazis wanted those influencers to testify to the freedom of speech that existed in Nazi Germany.
Could be.
 

watsup

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2020
Messages
25,151
Reaction score
8,234
Location
Springfield MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I hasten to add, these are just small little cracks in that wall of Putin's holding out war dissent, but a little crack, here, a little crack there and about ten more on the same wall, and its time to worry about some serious problems like pest infestation, dry rot, moisture and mold.

In this world chock full of information, he can't hold back the dike forever.
 
Top Bottom