Knowing What You Know Now Would You... (1 Viewer)

[26 X World Champs]

A fair amount of Democrats and several Republicans have over the last year or so come out to say that knowing what they know now they would not have voted to authorize President Bush to start a war in Iraq.

Simple question:

Knowing what you know now is the war justified? ​

Note I'm using the present tense "is". Do you know what the meaning of "is" is? :smile:

 

[talloulou]

A fair amount of Democrats and several Republicans have over the last year or so come out to say that knowing what they know now they would not have voted to authorize President Bush to start a war in Iraq.

Simple question:

Knowing what you know now is the war justified? ​

Note I'm using the present tense "is". Do you know what the meaning of "is" is? :smile:

I'd rather answer the question a few decades from now when history has had time to tell whether anything positive was acomplished in the Middle East after the Iraq war.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I'd rather answer the question a few decades from now when history has had time to tell whether anything positive was acomplished in the Middle East after the Iraq war.

Understood....but nevertheless in today's world, for me, it is painfully obvious that had it been widely known what we know today we would never have started the war and the shape of the world would be so very different.

Bush's bungling and his inexcusably poor understanding of the Middle East and Iraq has made a bad decision even worse due to outrageous incompetence.

I'm curious to read if people will defend Bush based on the thesis of this thread.

 

[BodiSatva]

I did not think that the Invasion of Iraq was EVER an appropriate plan...
But I feel that a well planned War on Terror, so to speak, IS totally needed. The issue is real and it needs to be addressed. But after the mess ups in Afghanistan, were they let OSB get away even though they knew EXACTLY were he was, I feel that the whole ordeal is being handled very badly.

 

[RightinNYC]

I'm with talloulou on this one...it's impossible to say what I would do "knowing what I know now," considering the fact that a HUGE portion of the relevant information relating to the war is classified, making any claim from a member of the general public based on incomplete information.

What I WOULD like to see is this question answered by every member of Congress. I would bet my left arm that the majority of Congress, including a significant chunk of the Democrats, would say yes.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I'm with talloulou on this one...it's impossible to say what I would do "knowing what I know now," considering the fact that a HUGE portion of the relevant information relating to the war is classified, making any claim from a member of the general public based on incomplete information.

That's not a reasonable answer IMHO because you were able to make a previous decision whether the war was right or wrong or justified at the time Bush invaded. If there was enough information then for you to make a decision than the same goes for now.

What I WOULD like to see is this question answered by every member of Congress. I would bet my left arm that the majority of Congress, including a significant chunk of the Democrats, would say yes.

It would be very interesting, I agree. I have no idea how it would turn out other than knowing that the vote would be very different than it was in October 2002.

 

[RightinNYC]

That's not a reasonable answer IMHO because you were able to make a previous decision whether the war was right or wrong or justified at the time Bush invaded. If there was enough information then for you to make a decision than the same goes for now.

Fair enough. The wording of the poll is very ambiguous, but regardless, I'll try to offer an answer to any possible interpretation:


If it was Oct 2002 again, and I had ONLY the information Congress had then, would I have voted for the war?

Yes.

If it was Oct 2002 now, and I had only the incomplete information that is publicly available now, AND I knew that the war would be conducted the exact same way that it has been, would I have voted for the war?

No, because I don't think that the war as conducted has been successful enough (as of yet) to justify the costs.

If it was Oct 2002 now, and I had only the incomplete information that is publicly available now, AND I knew that the war would have been conducted in a much better fashion, would I have voted for the war?

Yes, because this was originally and still may eventually be a "winnable" war.

Regardless, I don't really put much (any) stock in the general public's flash opinion as to how "successful" or "winnable" a war is. It's impossible to evaluate the long-term effect of something that's currently ongoing.

It would be very interesting, I agree. I have no idea how it would turn out other than knowing that the vote would be very different than it was in October 2002.

Very different in that instead of near-unanimous, I bet it'd probably be closer to 2/3 in favor (note that this is assuming we could get anonymous responses, a bunch of politicians might publicly claim that they wouldn't have voted for it simply because they desire to be populists, but in reality would likely have voted for it anyways).

 

[Navy Pride]

When it comes to the war in Iraq it is very easy for the left to be Monday Morning Quarterbacks........

 

[Skip]

When it comes to the war in Iraq it is very easy for the left to be Monday Morning Quarterbacks........

Somebody has to think about what to do because the White House sure isn't.

 

[26 X World Champs]

If it was Oct 2002 now, and I had only the incomplete information that is publicly available now, AND I knew that the war would be conducted the exact same way that it has been, would I have voted for the war?

No, because I don't think that the war as conducted has been successful enough (as of yet) to justify the costs.

Have you read "State of Denial"? I just finished it and for me it was incredibly revealing IMHO. It clearly detailed the incredible bungling which is now pretty obvious but it also, and more importantly details the depth of the wrong information and how it was purposely manipulated to sway people to buy into Bush's war.

It also revealed how many people, inside and outside of the White House knew and know how poorly Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice have prosecuted the entire debacle. All of them are guilty of errors so egregious and also diabolical that they have cemented their place in history, today, next month, next year, in 20 or 50 years.

 

[26 X World Champs]

When it comes to the war in Iraq it is very easy for the left to be Monday Morning Quarterbacks........

:rofl Typically you miss the point of this thread. Monday morning quarterbacking is not accurate when we were LIED to by the Quarterback! The information that was broadcast to the world was purposely misleading so that we would all be duped into supporting a war that was started illegitimately.

Also, the point of this thread is to THINK Navy Pride, THINK! I swear your post in this thread is just like the sheep you seem to always be when it comes to trying to analyze anything that has to do with this war.

We now know that there weren't any WMDs, that Al Qaeda did not have a connection with Saddam and that they were not working together in any way at all, that we didn't send enough troops, we didn't equip the troops properly, that we abused prisoners, that there is now a Civil War where we do not even know who the enemy is anymore is lost on you NP...again!

 

[Navy Pride]

Somebody has to think about what to do because the White House sure isn't.

Yeah and your only solution is cut and run.........

 

[Navy Pride]

:rofl Typically you miss the point of this thread. Monday morning quarterbacking is not accurate when we were LIED to by the Quarterback! The information that was broadcast to the world was purposely misleading so that we would all be duped into supporting a war that was started illegitimately.

Also, the point of this thread is to THINK Navy Pride, THINK! I swear your post in this thread is just like the sheep you seem to always be when it comes to trying to analyze anything that has to do with this war.

We now know that there weren't any WMDs, that Al Qaeda did not have a connection with Saddam and that they were not working together in any way at all, that we didn't send enough troops, we didn't equip the troops properly, that we abused prisoners, that there is now a Civil War where we do not even know who the enemy is anymore is lost on you NP...again!

Yeah then 23 democratic senators including your heroes The Ice Princess, Hillary and Lurch Kerry becasue like everyone else they believed the british intelligence and so did 80% of the American Public when the war started.........

Get some new talking points.the old ones are stale as hell........

 

[26 X World Champs]

Yeah then 23 democratic senators including your heroes The Ice Princess, Hillary and Lurch Kerry becasue like everyone else they believed the british intelligence and so did 80% of the American Public when the war started.........

Get some new talking points.the old ones are stale as hell........

Apparently you're unable to grasp the meaning of this thread...we're not talking about what people voted for in 2002. This thread is about what we now know is the truth and knowing the truth how would you vote TODAY...get it Navy Pride?

 

[brewmenn]

I never supported the war because I didn't see how it would turn out any differently than the way it has.

 

[SpooK]

I never supported the war because I didn't see how it would turn out any differently than the way it has.

belay my last.

 

[tryreading]

I was against starting the war and have been against it every day since then, and no matter the outcome, I'll still think it was wrong.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I was against starting the war and have been against it every day since then, and no matter the outcome, I'll still think it was wrong.

Even President Bush finally admitted today that we're not "winning" the war in Iraq! He also admits, finally, that our military is, as Colin Powell said, "broken."

I think there are very, very few people left in America who are so ignorant or biased towards Bush that they still think the Iraqi War was the right decision.

I can fully understand people who thought it was the right thing to do in 2003 but for anyone to now look at all the realities since then and still belive Bush takes a certain type of ignorance that only a special few possess, you know?

Bush is so fool of foolish pride that to this day he cannot admit his mistakes, admit that he was wrong and do to this foolish pride he will not do what needs to be done to fix his egregious mistakes.

He's a perfect example of what PRIDE does to people! Bush has put PRIDE ahead of the welfare of our soldiers and his PRIDE is killing Americans everyday.

Pride is a deadly sin and Bush is the epitome of how it corrupts. There are people in this community who think like Bush and are equally evil in their selection of priorities...