Kids are the savages but the teachers get the blame!

[alexa]

The biggest difference in whether a child gets high grades isn't their teacher but how aspirational and supportive their parents are. Bright but poor kids are outstripped by 10-11 years old by less intelligent kids who have wealthier more aspirational parents who put the time and support into their kids.

I was surprised at that. What I had remembered was studies had shown that a child's academic success had a strong co-relation to the Mother's academic achievement - hence yes, parental input but not determined by finance. It does not sit well to think it is based on wealth.

I know I had found an article which said that this was beginning to change, that strategies put in place were beginning to allow children to achieve academically better than their parents for the first time in decades....however when you get to thinking that it is parents wealth that determines whether a child achieves, that is definitely begging some questions.

I would say Infinite that those bright poor kids did not become bright without parental input and aspiration. The Guardian suggests it may indeed be a problem with our schools

The report says one in six parents cannot get their children into a decent school, leading it to conclude: "The problem is not a shortage of parental aspiration. It is a shortage of good schools."

Britain's closed shop: damning report on social mobility failings | Society | The Guardian

 

[alexa]

Well - only the monetary sum denoted where this took place.

On first read it could have happened anywhere - naturally, being in the US I defered to US.

You are of course free to join in.

 

[VanceMack]

Sorry, I should explain.

Some school districts are too strict with students with 'no tolerance' regulations that leave students expelled for bringing a plastic butter knife in their lunch box.
To this school district's regulations which are under fire which are too lax and too 'no longer focused on fixing the problem'

Two extremes . . . is there any school that it's the middle?

Im all for middle ground. But middle ground is something you find once your base is secure. Im not advocating we never help at youth kids. What I am suggesting is that we have embraced this idea that every child must be saved and we do so at the expense of others. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link...so when you accomodate to the lowest common denominator the other chidren and their education experience suffers.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- I would say Infinite that those bright poor kids did not become bright without parental input and aspiration. The Guardian suggests it may indeed be a problem with our schools --

Good article but there's lots of studeis and reports too on poor but bright kids being overtaken by less able but richer peers.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7141169.stm

End Child Poverty - The Effects

ww.cpag.org.uk/publications/1_policy.htm

Low social mobility in UK has not improved in 30 years - finds LSE research - 2007 - News archive - News - News and media - Home

Brightest poor children do worse than wealthy but dim classmates - Times Online

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Teachers are employees, not slave's to the nation's brats.

Indeed. I never said that they should be.

 

[alexa]

Good article but there's lots of studeis and reports too on poor but bright kids being overtaken by less able but richer peers.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7141169.stm

End Child Poverty - The Effects

ww.cpag.org.uk/publications/1_policy.htm

Low social mobility in UK has not improved in 30 years - finds LSE research - 2007 - News archive - News - News and media - Home

Brightest poor children do worse than wealthy but dim classmates - Times Online

I don't doubt it. I have also watched the programs where the rich families move house to be near the best school and hire private tutors. Obviously something which poorer families cannot do. My point was simply that a child does not become bright without input from the family...or maybe it has something to do with this. Social mobility on the rise at last, says report | Society | The Guardian.

Certainly within our State system we do have an obligation to provide equality of education to all and that ought to result in bright poor kids doing better than thick rich ones. I don't think we are too far apart on this one.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- rich families move house to be near the best school and hire private tutors --

To be quite honest, I would too if I had the means.

-- My point was simply that a child does not become bright without input from the family...

It was probably late but I couldn't break down what one of your sentences meant however that is a point I also agree and tried to make. Aspirational parents make a huge difference to any child. Their help, encouragement and engagement makes a huge impact. I find this with my students - those whose parents bother with parent evenings or who engage in emails and support when I ask for it see their kids do so much better than those parents who can't be bothered whether their kids are in or not, working hard or not.

-- Certainly within our State system we do have an obligation to provide equality of education to all and that ought to result in bright poor kids doing better than thick rich ones. I don't think we are too far apart on this one.

Essentially no, we're not too far apart, the State system must provide as equal access and opportunity as it can - but like the old saying goes - "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

The sector I'm in has what Ofsted grades as "Beacon Colleges" or "Beacon Providers" - meaning that the teachers, the student work, the curriculum, the acheivement is outstanding. This is where future Ofsted Inspectors come from. Then there are "Good" "Satisfactory" or even "Unsatisfactory" colleges. We are graded good - but I can tell you that it's the parental input and financial background of the areas these providers are in that makes all the difference.

Up here in the north, Manchester has quite a few "Outstanding" colleges - all in the middle class and above areas of Manchester. The teachers aren't any better, their curricula aren't any better - I also work on degree courses and can compare their students work and experience with mine - those grades tend to reflect how involved and expectant their parents are in comparison with others. There are few Ofsted Inspectors or "Beacon" institutes in Northern areas like West Cumbria, Middlesborough, Hull Central, Blythe - Northumberland etc.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Certainly within our State system we do have an obligation to provide equality of education to all and that ought to result in bright poor kids doing better than thick rich ones.

A desire substantially reversed when leftards like Tony Crosland vowed to 'destroy every f*****g grammar school'! Many of the cretins in Labour still feel that way today.

Comps turned out to be the compromise, lowest-common denominator choice to fix what the socialists claimed to be an ill. And they've voted against improvement ever since, for example when Labour MPs representing areas with some of the worst academic records voted against any reforms Tony Blair proposed.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Chances are these difficult kids have had plenty of beatings already.

What a lame excuse! When I was a victim of bullying, obviously the first thing that entered my mind was to say to my bully 'There there, now we both are in the same boat! Here's some understanding!'

And some kids only understand the language of the slipper. And I'd rather some piece of excrement gets a wallop than a teacher, policeman or innocent child or bystander any day of the week.

 

[Moot]

Twenty or so years ago Finland school children ranked at the near bottom of the academic scale world wide. Being a mostly agriculture country with few natural resources Finland needed to turn things around and quickly if they wanted their country to compete on a global scale with other countries. So the nation decided to focus on the one resource they did have, their people and make education a national priority.

Twenty years later, Finnish schools are the best in the world and their students consistently score the highest in math and science worldwide. The kids know four languages by the time they are 10 years old. They also have the lowest dropout rate. The government spends half the cost per student than in the US. Because of their highly educated working class, Finland now has some of the most prestigous corporations in the world. So how did they do it and so quickly?

1. Education became a national effort that involved the parents, the teachers and the government. When each child is born the government sends the parents a packet of picture books and each year after that they get packets of age appropiate reading books so the parents can start helping their children learn to read early on. Finland places a high priority on reading.

2 Finland doesn't have transitional schools where children are separated by age, such as grade school, middle school, high school. Instead the kids all go to the same school with the idea in mind, that in the real world people interact with people of all ages and not just their age group.

3. The children have the same teacher for at least five or six years or more. This allows the teacher to know the students, their problem areas and it helps the children bond with their teacher and visa versa. It also helps the teacher know the parents better and visa versa.

4. The classrooms have a relaxed open seating atmosphere where the kids feel comfortable and can even take off their shoes if they want. There are no uniforms. They also have shorter class time than schools in other countries.

5. The schools dont have sports teams, proms, band, or those kind of activities. It is strictly academic.

6. The most important aspect of Finnish schools, is the teachers come from the top 10% of their college graduating class instead of the bottom 10%. They are the brightest of the brightest and are treated with the same respect as a doctor, lawyer or other professionals.

7. For students that are slow learners, they aren't separated out of the classroom, instead they have an extra teacher on hand to help those students one on one while the main teacher can focus on the rest of the class.

8. The government spends on the best equipment and technology for the classrooms.

9. Thats just off the top of my head, but no doubt they do other things.

Because of Finlands high academic student achievements, countries all over the world are flocking to Finland to see how they do it and to take some of their ideas back to their countries. So I hope we see a major change in how children are taught and schools are run in the not so distant future, because lord knows we need it in the US and by the sound of it, so does Britain.

 

[Republic_Of_Public]

Just goes to show what's possible. Finland is a proud country, patriotic and even nationalistic and in no doubt they are a people of worth and pride.

No wonder they have the right moral attitude when it's time to put nose to the grindstone.