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Kids are the savages but the teachers get the blame!

Republic_Of_Public

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Disgusting. Thanks once again for watering-down standards of discipline you 'liberal' pigs' rectums:

'Lack of discipline is absolutely appalling': Teacher who won unfair dismissal claim speaks out on out of control students | Mail Online


This is by no means the only example and teachers I've known have been wary of tackling scumbags too often in case they're punished.

And I've had experience of young vermin being protected further by being a victim of bullying not allowed to hit back. Again other examples have been in abundance.






Observations on school bullies: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68960-quick-question-anti-bullying-week.html






Liberals and lefties dribble that these undesirables only act they way they do due to poverty, social deprivation, not enough nurturing... anything other than the fact that they're malevolent creatures who live to cause harm.

Perhaps we can kill two birds with one stone by giving every liberal in Britain their own personal teenage neanderthal to take care of, in their own homes and with their own money. Louts'll not be the education system's problem then.

And when these happy-clappy idiots get their heads kicked in and their wallets stolen instead of others (before being reprimanded for trying to discipline them), perhaps they'll have a few home truths knocked into their dense skulls and will stop spoiling Britain for the rest of us.
 
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VanceMack

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Disgusting. Thanks once again for watering-down standards of discipline you 'liberal' pigs' rectums:
This is by no means the only example and teachers I've known have been wary of tackling scumbags too often in case they're punished.
And I've had experience of young vermin being protected further by being a victim of bullying not allowed to hit back. Again other examples have been in abundance.
Observations on school bullies: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68960-quick-question-anti-bullying-week.html
Liberals and lefties dribble that these undesirables only act they way they do due to poverty, social deprivation, not enough nurturing... anything other than the fact that they're malevolent creatures who live to cause harm.
Perhaps we can kill two birds with one stone by giving every liberal in Britain their own personal teenage neanderthal to take care of, in their own homes and with their own money. Louts'll not be the education system's problem then.
And when these happy-clappy idiots get their heads kicked in and their wallets stolen instead of others (before being reprimanded for trying to discipline them), perhaps they'll have a few home truths knocked into their dense skulls and will stop spoiling Britain for the rest of us.
Its definitely a conundrum. We tell young people all the time they are 'empowered in schools and frequently they prove they arent mature enough to handle that empowerment. We teach sex education in schools because of the excuse "their parents arent or wont teach them". SO, since their parents wont or havent taught them discipline or at the very least, choice and consequence, should that not ALSO be part of the schools job?

School attendance should be a privelege and no other students scholastic experience should suffer because some unruly little turd who's parents abandoned their responsibility. Im not sure the answer...but I'd start with simply expelling them. Let mumsie and daddy deal with them since they are more invested in being friends than parents.
 

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A long time before they encounter the inefficient and poorly run Educational system, they are under the care of their parents.
So with this in mind it should be seen that parental control and education have primacy during any child's most formative years.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Indeed. But where have grounding subjects like domestic science gone in schools?

Ditched by liberal know-alls who would rather vote to have shorter hours for more pay or teach kids how to have sex than bother keeping academic standards up!


Ally that with social taboos being removed left and right (as well as good manners and thoughtfulness), plus more lenient sentences and sanctions for peoples' bad behaviour and you get an exponentially-worsening social problem.
 

William Rea

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Indeed. But where have grounding subjects like domestic science gone in schools?

Ditched by liberal know-alls who would rather vote to have shorter hours for more pay or teach kids how to have sex than bother keeping academic standards up!


Ally that with social taboos being removed left and right (as well as good manners and thoughtfulness), plus more lenient sentences and sanctions for peoples' bad behaviour and you get an exponentially-worsening social problem.
So the next time your Boss asks you to work more hours for no additional pay you'll be stepping forward for that deal?
 

William Rea

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A long time before they encounter the inefficient and poorly run Educational system, they are under the care of their parents.
So with this in mind it should be seen that parental control and education have primacy during any child's most formative years.
I disagree that the education system (in the UK at least) is inefficient and poorly run but I do agree that in effect Teachers can only work with the materials that we deliver to them; shoving children that have severe social problems into one end of the mill ain't going to produce a string of Einsteins at the other end of the production line.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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So the next time your Boss asks you to work more hours for no additional pay you'll be stepping forward for that deal?


In England there are plenty of schools shut on a Friday, as well as early closing on Thursday and skipfuls of extra holiday days through the year, courtesy of block-voting by teacher NUTs. (They're motivated when they want to be.) Liberals say it gives them extra time to mark the kids' homework.

Given that standards are now so rubbish at their hands now anyway, I doubt there's anything of consequence left to mark!


Though I think we're getting off-track here. I'm sympathising with good teachers trying to cope under trying circumstances, much of it caused by their own colleagues.



Besides, workers across the land have done unpaid overtime on occasion, including me. It's only whiny hemp-sandalled lefty teachers who act like martyrs about it.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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What else if not expulsion?


In terms of yobbo kids, the cane wouldn't go amiss against their backsides. Amongst other things (because it can't be just the stick), it worked in the past to turn bad kids out right.

Just so long as you don't allow sadistic teachers to whack the dyslexic any more and suchlike, you can't go too wrong. Indeed, when the Isle of Man banned the birch, youth crime sharply rose.



There's a hell of a lot of rehab, good parenting sessions, boot camp building and jail terms to dish out if you want the nation's hoodlums and their scummy parents to change quick-sharp.


But then you'd also need to move on to raising education standards once Tom Thug's Schooldays are a thing of the past.....
 
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alexa

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If they are violent little ****s that mumsie and daddy wont take the time to teach respect, then frankly they SHOULD be expelled.
:doh violent 5 year olds. If teachers cannot cope with 5 year olds then it is the teachers who are needing extra help. A society that wants to put children on the scrap heap at 5 years old is where the problem is.
 
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Infinite Chaos

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-- Given that standards are now so rubbish at their hands now anyway, I doubt there's anything of consequence left to mark!--
Ah, so if we sent you a Modern A-Level paper in Mathematics, you'd breeze through and into Oxford eh?

The real picture is that the higher grade percentiles are getting better and the lower grade percentiles worse - a bigger gap. Marks at the top end are earned through hard work and effort. There's too many like you fall for the media hype when the grades come out every year.
 

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:doh violent 5 year olds. If teachers cannot cope with 5 year olds then it is the teachers who are needing extra help. A society that wants to put children on the scrap heap at 5 years old is where the problem is.

Even at a young age, I was well aware of how to behave especially in Primary School.

If parents will not teach their children respect and have the sense to pay attention to their children's progress in schools to ensure they behave. Kick the brats out so they do not ruin it for everyone.
I had stupid children in my classes from primary all the way to college and they were horrible little ****s who needed a kick and a good beating from someone. Spitting on teachers, throwing stuff, destroying classrooms, swearing/talking loudly. Causing the teacher to divert attention to that minority 70% of the time and forcing the teachers to spend more time trying to keep the class quiet rather than do what they were paid to do which is teach.

My Mum would have beat my ass to the next century if ever a teacher phoned and said I spat or swore at them, hell I used to be worried when I had hour detentions and god help me if I got suspended for misbehaving.
The only acceptable reason in my household to be suspended was for self defence in a fight. :roll:
 
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alexa

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Even at a young age, I was well aware of how to behave especially in Primary School.

If parents will not teach their children respect and have the sense to pay attention to their children's progress in schools to ensure they pay attention. Kick the brats out so they do not ruin it for everyone.
I had stupid children in my classes from primary all the way to college and they were horrible little ****s who needed a kick and a good beating from someone. Spitting on teachers, throwing stuff, destroying classrooms, swearing/talking loudly. Causing the teacher to divert attention to that minority 70% of the time and forcing the teachers to spend more time trying to keep the class quiet rather than do what they were paid to do which is teach.

My Mum would have beat my ass to the next century if ever a teacher phoned and said I spat or swore at them, hell I used to be worried when I had hour detentions and god help me if I got suspended for misbehaving.
The only acceptable reason in my household to be suspended was for self defence in a fight. :roll:
Chances are these difficult kids have had plenty of beatings already - that would be how they learned to act in this way.

I know from experiencing my daughter's education that it really is the responsibility of the teachers. Teacher's can get kids to behave, even difficult 5 year olds. What does it say about a society if people are frightened of 5 year olds.

We moved when my daughter was 7. I noticed a big change. Her first school in the centre of London did not appear to expect the children to know how to behave. Her second school did. This had a big difference on overall behaviour -admittedly the catchment was different too but this really did make a difference. It created a completely different atmosphere and even kids who might have been difficult in other circumstances were not.

A good teacher can control a class of 5 year olds and if teachers are unable to control their class adequately to allow for each child to learn, then as far as I am concerned they should find another job.
 
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Laila

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Chances are these difficult kids have had plenty of beatings already - that would be how they learned to act in this way.
Yeah right.
I would bet alot need a spanking rather than it being the cause of their uncontrollable behaviour.

A good teacher can control a class of 5 year olds and if teachers are unable to control their class adequately to allow for each child to learn, then as far as I am concerned they should find another job.
Teachers are there to teach. Not parent.
They are not there to instil discipline and morals into students either. If they do not get this at home by mid years of Primary then chances are they going to be the same annoying pupils who disrupt classes at later

Headteachers should kick out those pupils, give the brats to the parents to handle instead of dumping them onto teachers which will negatively affect everyone else in the class.
 
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VanceMack

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:doh violent 5 year olds. If teachers cannot cope with 5 year olds then it is the teachers who are needing extra help. A society that wants to put children on the scrap heap at 5 years old is where the problem is.
Violent 5 year olds are disruptive. Teachers are commisioned to educate...and usually a significant number of children. If they have to spend time dealing with someone elses little angel (with the fear of dismissal or lawsuit if heaven forbid they speak harshly to little Johnnny) then they arent teaching the other 29 children. And those violent disruptive 5 year olds become 7, then 9, then they just beat the hell out some kid because he didnt give up his lunch money fast enough or *gasp* dared to look at them wrong in the hallway.
 

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Yeah right.
I would bet alot need a spanking rather than it being the cause of their uncontrollable behaviour.
Well obviously unless you have a particular child you can only make generalities. I don't believe in spanking. My 2 year old grand daughter has never even had a tap on the hand and is completely non aggressive. Already she can think of others and although she will of course try and push her Mum as much as she can, I have never found the need to be in any way 'heavy' with her.

So you get kids to be reasonable by being reasonable to them. By being treated with respect and care they learn to respect and care for others.

You presumably are thinking about people who desperately want to be good parents and who therefore spoil their children. My guess, and it can only be a guess, is that kids who are aggressive are aggressive because they have been treated aggressively. Now it may just be neglect. I have been hearing about children who have virtually no communication skills because they spend their toddler days in front of tv's.

Psychologically however, children tend to imitate. Hence generally children who have been hit, will hit but I do accept it may also be a sign of neglect.

Whatever way it is, a five year old who is not acting well, has problems and those problems are not that child's fault. They are too young.

A teacher who sets firm boundaries can begin to give that child the security she needs. On the other hand the teacher who like the parent does not know how to set boundaries, will find them being beaten by five year olds and expelling them from school. I think this is of shame to our society.

Teachers are there to teach. Not parent.
They are not there to instil discipline and morals into students either. If they do not get this at home by mid years of Primary then chances are they going to be the same annoying pupils who disrupt classes at later
Laila, I have only been speaking in this thread about 5 year olds and education in primary school is about a lot more than just the 3 r's. When a child is at school the teacher is 'loco parentis'.

So what does this legal definition actually mean in practical terms? There are two statutory provisions that relate to the role of teachers acting in loco parentis: firstly, the Children Act 1989 provides that teachers have a duty of care towards the children under their supervision, as well as promoting the safety and welfare of the children in their care. The level of this duty of care is measured as being that of a ‘reasonable parent.
What 'In Loco Parentis' Means to You - Law And Parents (UK)

A good teacher will be able to build up a relationship with each child and that will greatly help the child's development.

At it's most basic, teachers must provide boundaries which the children know they cannot cross.
 

Aunt Spiker

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So some areas are too strict and other areas aren't strict enough.

isn't there an 'in the middle' somewhere?
 

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So some areas are too strict and other areas aren't strict enough.

isn't there an 'in the middle' somewhere?
who are you talking to? What are you talking about?
 

Aunt Spiker

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who are you talking to? What are you talking about?

Sorry, I should explain.

Some school districts are too strict with students with 'no tolerance' regulations that leave students expelled for bringing a plastic butter knife in their lunch box.
To this school district's regulations which are under fire which are too lax and too 'no longer focused on fixing the problem'

Two extremes . . . is there any school that it's the middle?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Ah, so if we sent you a Modern A-Level paper in Mathematics, you'd breeze through and into Oxford eh?
No. I was one of the crap ones.

I also know there are many kids who studied, hell even looked further than the stunted curriculum and tier-less classes to go as far as they could. They received knockout grades whilst I was still thumbing through the dictionary to find out what 'examination' meant. So it's definitely not the fault of the kids if some fail under the system.


Seems to me that there's a privileged few receiving the ace grades because they used their initiatives whilst other, equally brainy kids still couldn't read or write properly because they relied solely on the public education 'works'. I thought their education is supposed to be comprehensive, hence the name of the one-size-fits-none institution replacing the grammars and secondary-moderns. (Yet another Marxist failure.)


Just ask a few employers and they'll tell you, candidly, that another reason they tend to pick the coolie labour is because even the backwater foreigners can be better educated than our failed youth nowadays. Indeed, just watch the video at the top of page 1.
 
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alexa

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Sorry, I should explain.

Some school districts are too strict with students with 'no tolerance' regulations that leave students expelled for bringing a plastic butter knife in their lunch box.
To this school district's regulations which are under fire which are too lax and too 'no longer focused on fixing the problem'

Two extremes . . . is there any school that it's the middle?
Well I cannot imagine any schools in the UK expelling children for bringing a plastic butter knife! Perhaps I am wrong but I think this would be headlines on the news.

However looking at the Scottish statistics children who are in the care of the local authority, that is not living with their parents are 30 times more likely to be excluded and boys are 10 times more likely to be excluded than girls.

They are not expelled at first offence, first of all they are excluded for a few days and only after several warnings will they be expelled. Interestingly one of the reasons for being expelled is truancy.

Now while they are excluded they miss out on schooling and social interaction and if they are expelled, although they are supposed to be assigned to another school, frequently there is nothing available so they miss out on more and more school, setting them on the trail for being a total misfit in society. One of the reasons I feel so strongly against doing this to five year olds.

The Scottish statistics confirm that the worst pupils are those who are damaged, that is those who have been removed from their homes and put into local authority homes.

BBC/OU Open2.net - Education & Language - Exclusion

We do though like yourself have differences in the number of expulsions from different schools. It seems to be to a great degree dependent on how good the school is which in my experience has a great deal to do with how good the Head Teacher is.

I think it is ridiculous to expel a child at 5 and that this is rather an indication that Teachers need better training. Primary years are the ones where children need to learn the rules and also to discover that their is some benefit to being at school. They need to learn that they are worthy and that they can achieve.

In the instances where a child must be expelled because the school just cannot cope or where the child excludes herself through continuous truancy, alternative schools which meet their needs can help. I have heard of at least one of these in London. In this way children will not miss out on education and will be able to get sufficient self worth to go on to contribute effectively to society.

There is a book, 'How Children Fail' which was written after study in the fifties and sixties I think. They discovered that if children received too much negative feedback, they lost their self worth. The main way they coped with that was to be as 'bad' as they could. "If I cannot be acceptable, then I will be the best at being unacceptable."

but back to your point, I do not think we in the uk would expel a child for bringing in a plastic butter knife.
 
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William Rea

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In England there are plenty of schools shut on a Friday, as well as early closing on Thursday and skipfuls of extra holiday days through the year, courtesy of block-voting by teacher NUTs. (They're motivated when they want to be.) Liberals say it gives them extra time to mark the kids' homework.

Given that standards are now so rubbish at their hands now anyway, I doubt there's anything of consequence left to mark!


Though I think we're getting off-track here. I'm sympathising with good teachers trying to cope under trying circumstances, much of it caused by their own colleagues.



Besides, workers across the land have done unpaid overtime on occasion, including me. It's only whiny hemp-sandalled lefty teachers who act like martyrs about it.
You need to stop reading the Daily Mail. Teachers are employees, not slave's to the nation's brats.

I have NEVER seen any of my local schools closed on a Friday or closed early on Thursdays during normal term times EVER. In fact what I have seen is Teachers staying on after their paid hours running after school clubs and activities which is where my kids have been able to develope real interests in sports and arts beyond the normal lesson time. I am eternally grateful to the Teachers that gave their free time to my kids so that they are able to enter choir competitions and local sports tournaments.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Well I cannot imagine any schools in the UK expelling children for bringing a plastic butter knife! Perhaps I am wrong but I think this would be headlines on the news.

However looking at the Scottish statistics children who are in the care of the local authority, that is not living with their parents are 30 times more likely to be excluded and boys are 10 times more likely to be excluded than girls.

They are not expelled at first offence, first of all they are excluded for a few days and only after several warnings will they be expelled. Interestingly one of the reasons for being expelled is truancy.

Now while they are excluded they miss out on schooling and social interaction and if they are expelled, although they are supposed to be assigned to another school, frequently there is nothing available so they miss out on more and more school, setting them on the trail for being a total misfit in society. One of the reasons I feel so strongly against doing this to five year olds.

The Scottish statistics confirm that the worst pupils are those who are damaged, that is those who have been removed from their homes and put into local authority homes.

BBC/OU Open2.net - Education & Language - Exclusion

We do though like yourself have differences in the number of expulsions from different schools. It seems to be to a great degree dependent on how good the school is which in my experience has a great deal to do with how good the Head Teacher is.

I think it is ridiculous to expel a child at 5 and that this is rather an indication that Teachers need better training. Primary years are the ones where children need to learn the rules and also to discover that their is some benefit to being at school. They need to learn that they are worthy and that they can achieve.

In the instances where a child must be expelled because the school just cannot cope or where the child excludes herself through continuous truancy, alternative schools which meet their needs can help. I have heard of at least one of these in London. In this way children will not miss out on education and will be able to get sufficient self worth to go on to contribute effectively to society.

There is a book, 'How Children Fail' which was written after study in the fifties and sixties I think. They discovered that if children received too much negative feedback, they lost their self worth. The main way they coped with that was to be as 'bad' as they could. "If I cannot be acceptable, then I will be the best at being unacceptable."

but back to your point, I do not think we in the uk would expel a child for bringing in a plastic butter knife.
Well - only the monetary sum denoted where this took place.

On first read it could have happened anywhere - naturally, being in the US I defered to US.
 

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-- Seems to me that there's a privileged few receiving the ace grades because they used their initiatives whilst other, equally brainy kids still couldn't read or write properly because they relied solely on the public education 'works'. I thought their education is supposed to be comprehensive, hence the name of the one-size-fits-none institution replacing the grammars and secondary-moderns. (Yet another Marxist failure.)
The biggest difference in whether a child gets high grades isn't their teacher but how aspirational and supportive their parents are. Bright but poor kids are outstripped by 10-11 years old by less intelligent kids who have wealthier more aspirational parents who put the time and support into their kids. One of the factors that helps is what's called "enrichment" - (otherwise known as extra curricular activities as mentioned by William Rea above, taking kids to museums / performances / trips that "enrich" without actually always being part of a particular curriculum.

-- Just ask a few employers and they'll tell you, candidly, that another reason they tend to pick the coolie labour is because even the backwater foreigners can be better educated than our failed youth nowadays. Indeed, just watch the video at the top of page 1.
Those "coolies" that make it here are usually the brighter ones, those that didn't do so well don't make it out so of course there'll be Polish / South African etc degree educated people competing with less qualified home candidates here.

Years ago, I knew a Spanish qualified Doctor who worked as a nurse here in the UK because she was paid more as a nurse here than as a Doctor in Spain.
 
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