• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Kennedy hypocracy vs Alito

Stinger

DP Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
15,097
Reaction score
537
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Reporting on a story in the Washington Times this morning Drudge has the following

" The eight-term senator belonged to an all-male social club -- the Owl -- at Harvard University. The Owl refused to admit women until it was forced to do so during the 1980s, according to records kept by the HARVARD CRIMSON, the student newspaper."

Of course Kennedy's office, and I'm sure the leftest here will do the same, tried that old baseless excuse "well it was different".


" "No one can question Senator Kennedy's commitment to equality, justice and civil rights," said Laura Capps.

Oh yeah, how about the justice he showed on a certain bridge one night?

And let's not forget how Kennedy tried to smear Rhenquist because he once owned a home on land that had an old racial convenent on it, and the press quickly showed that the Kennedy family owned land with a racial convenent, as did Biden who had joined in on the smear.

When will someone say to the Democrats "have you no shame"?
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Stinger said:
Reporting on a story in the Washington Times this morning Drudge has the following

" The eight-term senator belonged to an all-male social club -- the Owl -- at Harvard University. The Owl refused to admit women until it was forced to do so during the 1980s, according to records kept by the HARVARD CRIMSON, the student newspaper."

Of course Kennedy's office, and I'm sure the leftest here will do the same, tried that old baseless excuse "well it was different".


" "No one can question Senator Kennedy's commitment to equality, justice and civil rights," said Laura Capps.

Oh yeah, how about the justice he showed on a certain bridge one night?

And let's not forget how Kennedy tried to smear Rhenquist because he once owned a home on land that had an old racial convenent on it, and the press quickly showed that the Kennedy family owned land with a racial convenent, as did Biden who had joined in on the smear.

When will someone say to the Democrats "have you no shame"?
I have not watched the hearings very much mainly because I have been so busy (and I can't watch them when I'm at work). It does sound like Kennedy is taking things a bit far, and I don't like it.

I don't know whether he was part of a group that refused to allow women, but I see that as a little different than not wanting women and minorities. The woman thing is no big deal, but minorities is offensive. Additionally, Kennedy isn't seeking to get a lifetime appointment as an impartial judge. There is a difference, Stinger. Plus, he may have set aside any past prejudices he has, and he wants to be sure that Alito has as well.

Now, the smearing of Rehnquist regarding the racial covenant, there was other evidence demonstrating a possible bias.

Rehnquist went to Washington, D.C. to work as a law clerk for Justice Robert H. Jackson during the court's 1951–1952 terms. There, he wrote a memorandum arguing against school desegregation while the court was considering the landmark Brown v. Board of Education case. Rehnquist later claimed that the memo was meant to reflect Jackson's views and not his own. Rehnquist’s memo, entitled “A Random Thought on the Segregation Cases,” defended the separate-but-equal doctrine embodied in the 1896 Supreme Court case of Plessy v. Ferguson. Rehnquist concluded that Plessy “was right and should be reaffirmed.” When questioned about the memos by the Senate Judiciary Committee in both 1971 and 1986, Rehnquist blamed his defense of segregation on the late Justice Jackson, testifying that his memo was meant to reflect the views of Justice Jackson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Rehnquist
Again, a judge is supposed to be UNBIASED, and it is the Senate Judiciary Committee's responsibility for determining whether there is bias, particularly when there is evidence of such (even just the appearance of it) in the nominee's past.
 

oldreliable67

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Messages
4,641
Reaction score
1,102
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
he may have set aside any past prejudices he has, and he wants to be sure that Alito has as well.
Omigod! Are we talking about the same guy? That is by far the funniest thing I've heard in years! :rofl :rofl :rofl
 

libertarian_knight

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
997
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It was my understanding, that unlike Kennedy's Owl Club, that Alito's wanted not to prohibit women and minoriteis into the Club, but rather into the SCHOOL.
 

americanwoman

dangerously addictive
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
26,309
Reaction score
19,493
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
Kennendy is a fat disgusting pig and I can't stand him! He bought himself a place in the senate and now we have to watch him make an ass of himself talking like an idiot who doesn't even know what he says.
*news flash kennedy* before you talk sh!t about others-- remember what you have done too.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
americanwoman said:
Kennendy is a fat disgusting pig and I can't stand him! He bought himself a place in the senate and now we have to watch him make an ass of himself talking like an idiot who doesn't even know what he says.
*news flash kennedy* before you talk sh!t about others-- remember what you have done too.
You all are so ridiculous. I doubt any one of you should be throwing stones, but if it makes you feel better to condemn someone for the rest of their life because of an accident, then go right ahead. The anger you all display about Kennedy indicates that he has a lot of control over your emotions.
 

Calm2Chaos

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
3,967
Reaction score
7
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
aps said:
You all are so ridiculous. I doubt any one of you should be throwing stones, but if it makes you feel better to condemn someone for the rest of their life because of an accident, then go right ahead. The anger you all display about Kennedy indicates that he has a lot of control over your emotions.
Ya know what.. Its not just Ted. I dislike the whole clan to tell you the truth. From the rum runners to the whore mongers and the killers and the rapist. With the **** that this family has done. It's amazing how holier then thou they try to come off
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
aps said:
You all are so ridiculous. I doubt any one of you should be throwing stones, but if it makes you feel better to condemn someone for the rest of their life because of an accident, then go right ahead. The anger you all display about Kennedy indicates that he has a lot of control over your emotions.
An accident? Why are you refusing to look at his actions AFTER the accident? His political and selfish actions mmediately following the drowning were despicable. And yet, you try desperately to say Laura Bush commited th same kind of selfish act. Your politics are getting in the way of your good sense.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
KCConservative said:
An accident? Why are you refusing to look at his actions AFTER the accident? His political and selfish actions mmediately following the drowning were despicable. And yet, you try desperately to say Laura Bush commited th same kind of selfish act. Your politics are getting in the way of your good sense.
KC, please provide me where I said that Laura Bush committed the same kind of selfish act. I have never said that. My point in bringing her up was to point out that bad things can happen to people and many people learn from those bad experiences. If he was continuing to show behavior similar to that which he displayed way back when, I would think he was despicable.

In the years that I have paid attention to his politics (and I grew up in Massachusetts, so I haven't just recently been observant), I have always liked him and found him to be a very articulate politician. He does a great job for the people in Massachusetts. So those who say that he has bought his way into the Senate are fooling themselves.

So he's not perfect and he has a checkered past. I don't condemn someone forever for that kind of behavior, particularly when they have expressed regret. And yes, I am aware of his behavior immediately after the incident. It doesn't change my assessment of him at all.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
aps said:
KC, please provide me where I said that Laura Bush committed the same kind of selfish act. I have never said that. My point in bringing her up was to point out that bad things can happen to people and many people learn from those bad experiences. If he was continuing to show behavior similar to that which he displayed way back when, I would think he was despicable.

In the years that I have paid attention to his politics (and I grew up in Massachusetts, so I haven't just recently been observant), I have always liked him and found him to be a very articulate politician. He does a great job for the people in Massachusetts. So those who say that he has bought his way into the Senate are fooling themselves.

So he's not perfect and he has a checkered past. I don't condemn someone forever for that kind of behavior, particularly when they have expressed regret. And yes, I am aware of his behavior immediately after the incident. It doesn't change my assessment of him at all.
I have never heard him express regret for letting her drown. Remind me to use you as a character witness if I should ever find myself in a similar situation.
 

libertarian_knight

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
997
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
KCConservative said:
I have never heard him express regret for letting her drown. Remind me to use you as a character witness if I should ever find myself in a similar situation.
(emphasis added)

so? does that make you special or king of the universe or something? Imagine a world, in which events go undetect from your knowledge... oh wait, it's this world
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
KCConservative said:
I have never heard him express regret for letting her drown. Remind me to use you as a character witness if I should ever find myself in a similar situation.
July 25, 1969

Although my doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion, as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either in the physical, emotional trauma brought on by the accident, or on anyone else. I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the policy immediately.

...

Today, as I mentioned, I felt morally obligated to plead guilty to the charge of leaving the scene of an accident. No words on my part can possibly express the terrible pain and suffering I feel over this tragic incident. This last week has been an agonizing one for me and for the members of my family, and the grief we feel over the loss of a wonderful friend will remain with us the rest of our lives.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/tedkennedychappaquiddick.htm
I read through his entire speech. This only confirms why I like him so much. He expresses himself with lots of emotion. He apologized to the people of Massachusetts. It's no wonder they forgave him. People LOVE it when politicians apologize for bad behavior and don't give an excuse for why they did what they did. They also don't like politicians who never apologize.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
libertarian_knight said:
(emphasis added)

so? does that make you special or king of the universe or something? Imagine a world, in which events go undetect from your knowledge... oh wait, it's this world
Yes, I'm the King of the Universe. It's about time you figured it out. I should put it in my screen name. Afterall, you are a self proclaimed Knight.

:roll:
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
aps said:
I read through his entire speech. This only confirms why I like him so much. He expresses himself with lots of emotion. He apologized to the people of Massachusetts. It's no wonder they forgave him. People LOVE it when politicians apologize for bad behavior and don't give an excuse for why they did what they did. They also don't like politicians who never apologize.
Thanks for the link, aps.

I love carefully prepared remarks 24 hours after a crime has been commited, don't you?
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
libertarian_knight said:
(emphasis added)

so? does that make you special or king of the universe or something? Imagine a world, in which events go undetect from your knowledge... oh wait, it's this world
If you do not think that our officials have to answer to the country, the entire country, you have not been honest with us here. His first response had to be to his state, and his state has excused him, so I don't really blame Ted for his seat, I must blame Mass. I can not understand the forgiveness given him, and with little explanation, or question in the matter. Leaving a woman to her death, leaving the scene, and then not reporting it for hours and hours, as she lay drowning, unforgivable IMO. Should this kind of person be choosing our best and brightest, much less be sitting in a position of such power for the people of Mass? They have said yes, and that speaks volumes about the people of this state, who put political power, before electing honest, capable, qualified folks. He is a name sake, a super star of that state, and many on the left, but he is no JFK or even RFK, he is the disappointing Ted, and all they have left to rise up, sad really.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
KCConservative said:
Thanks for the link, aps.

I love carefully prepared remarks 24 hours after a crime has been commited, don't you?
I don't have a problem with them as long as they sound sincere. In all honesty, if this happened to DeLay, I might feel the same way you do. It's easy to forgive someone when you like them, you know?
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
aps said:
I don't have a problem with them as long as they sound sincere. In all honesty, if this happened to DeLay, I might feel the same way you do. It's easy to forgive someone when you like them, you know?
Well, let's take the First Lady, since you were quick to compare the two. If she had run from the scene on the day her boyfriend was killed in the car wreck...if she had allowed alcohol to wear off before reporting the incident.....if she had her family spokesmen prepare her apologetic remarks 24 hours later, then yes, I would be just as tough on her. But only Ted handled it in this way, not Laura Welch.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Deegan said:
If you do not think that our officials have to answer to the country, the entire country, you have not been honest with us here. His first response had to be to his state, and his state has excused him, so I don't really blame Ted for his seat, I must blame Mass. I can not understand the forgiveness given him, and with little explanation, or question in the matter. Leaving a woman to her death, leaving the scene, and then not reporting it for hours and hours, as she lay drowning, unforgivable IMO. Should this kind of person be choosing our best and brightest, much less be sitting in a position of such power for the people of Mass? They have said yes, and that speaks volumes about the people of this state, who put political power, before electing honest, capable, qualified folks. He is a name sake, a super star of that state, and many on the left, but he is no JFK or even RFK, he is the disappointing Ted, and all they have left to rise up, sad really.
Deegan, that is not true. I voted for Kennedy once I turned 18 years old. To me, he expressed himself beautifully. He didn't give excuses for his behavior and he apologized. The power an apology has over the person to whom it is directed is tremendous. So you're going to criticize the people of Massachusetts because they forgave him? Unbelievable. I commend them for forgiving him.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
KCConservative said:
Well, let's take the First Lady, since you were quick to compae the two. If she had run from the scene on the day her boyfriend was killed in the car wreck...if she had allowed alcohol to wear off before reporting the incident.....if she had her family spokesmen prepare her apologetic remarks 24 hours later, then yes, I would be just as tough on her. But only Ted handled it in this way, not Laura Welch.
Personally, I like Laura Bush. I hold no grudge over what happened with her. Again, my point to bring her up was that bad things can happen to people and they shouldn't be condemned for the rest of their lives as a result. It would be one thing if Ted stabbed Mary Jo to death or intentionally drove off the bridge.
 

Gill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
8,713
Reaction score
1,907
Location
The Derby City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Although my doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion, as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either in the physical, emotional trauma brought on by the accident, or on anyone else. I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the policy immediately.
The concussion did not prevent him from talking to his lawyer BEFORE he called the police.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
aps said:
Personally, I like Laura Bush. I hold no grudge over what happened with her. Again, my point to bring her up was that bad things can happen to people and they shouldn't be condemned for the rest of their lives as a result. It would be one thing if Ted stabbed Mary Jo to death or intentionally drove off the bridge.
again, you stop short of the crime that was commited. It's not about whether he drove off the bridge intentionally or not. It's about his character after the accident.
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
aps said:
Deegan, that is not true. I voted for Kennedy once I turned 18 years old. To me, he expressed himself beautifully. He didn't give excuses for his behavior and he apologized. The power an apology has over the person to whom it is directed is tremendous. So you're going to criticize the people of Massachusetts because they forgave him? Unbelievable. I commend them for forgiving him.
If only that young lady was around to "express herself beautifully" oh how very nice that would be, but she can't, Ted made sure of that. You go tell her family that Ted had some concussion, and that he must have been in "shock" when he stumbled away, leaving her for dead. No, this drunk bastard took a curve to fast, drove in to a lake, and only worried about getting Ted out, as he was obviously aware enough to get himself out. You people can forgive him till the cows come home, I just don't respect your decision, and it really makes me question your intelligence.
 

aps

Passionate
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
15,675
Reaction score
2,979
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
KCConservative said:
again, you stop short of the crime that was commited. It's not about whether he drove off the bridge intentionally or not. It's about his character after the accident.
His character immediately after the accident was bad, but I find his explanation very plausible. I have been in situations where I was so shocked, it paralyzed me.

Okay, Okay, from here on out (in this thread), I'll let you get your disgust towards him off your chest and validate your feelings. I do understand your dislike for him.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Gill said:
The concussion did not prevent him from talking to his lawyer BEFORE he called the police.
Exactly. He knew the only way to save his skin was to go home and sober up before reporting it. Otherwise, his brother's career and his own career would have been toast.
 

libertarian_knight

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
997
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
KCConservative said:
Yes, I'm the King of the Universe. It's about time you figured it out. I should put it in my screen name. Afterall, you are a self proclaimed Knight.

:roll:
Yes oh great king of the something or other not really so significant. I remind you of another thing to which I am sure your vast intellegect and complete knowledge of all things must surely know already, that not all knights have been knighted (self-proclaimed or otherwise).
 
Top Bottom