[Kazakhstan] The Maidan was stillborn

[Juin]

.


The midwife was too late. It is not clear what tied up Victoria Nuland, the midwife of maidans. Maybe she couldn't procure a visa, given she became very unpopular with Moscow after overseeing the delivery of that terrible maidan in Kiev back in 2014. Moscow won't let her in. It took a special visa for the maidan midwife to pay a visit to Moscow. Maybe the Kazakhs had also been careful about letting in these terrible midwives. Whatever the case, Victoria Nuland did not make it to Nur Sultan, Kazakhstan, and in consequence the Maidan was still born.

It would have been a tough sell either way. If the Maidan was not still born, Kazakh President Tokayev was waiting at the entrance of the womb pregnant with the Maidan not unlike some dreaded abortionist, with a pair of forceps, ready to drive them into the emergent foetus. He issued without hesitation a shoot to kill order. The funny thing is there was no global uproar. The shoot to kill order sounded rather barbaric to me, and maybe out of the times, which is why I thought there would be a global uproar.

And just in case Kazakh President Tokayev botched the abortion and the Maidan still had legs Putin was on hand to lend a mailed fist. It did the trick. The Maidan is no more.

Is this another pick up for Putin after Belarus?

Kazakhstan 'Stabilized' After Nearly 8000 Arrested, 164 Killed in Protests: Officials​

BY KATIE WERMUS ON 1/10/22 AT 1:16 PM EST



Thousands of people were arrested and over 150 people were killed during violent protests last week over the sudden increase in gas prices, Kazakhstan officials said Monday.
The National Security Committee said Monday the situation has now been "stabilized and is under control" after violent protests damaged parts of the country.
The protests began on January 2 after the government lifted its price cap on fuel. The cost of liquefied petroleum gas, which most people in Central Asia use for their vehicles, nearly doubled in price immediately, NPR reported.

Kazakhstan 'Stabilized' After Nearly 8000 Arrested, 164 Killed in Protests

The protests in Kazakhstan over soaring fuel prices "were hijacked by terrorists, extremists and criminal groups," said the country's Foreign Ministry.

www.newsweek.com

 

[AmNat]

.


The midwife was too late. It is not clear what tied up Victoria Nuland, the midwife of maidans. Maybe she couldn't procure a visa, given she became very unpopular with Moscow after overseeing the delivery of that terrible maidan in Kiev back in 2014. Moscow won't let her in. It took a special visa for the maidan midwife to pay a visit to Moscow. Maybe the Kazakhs had also been careful about letting in these terrible midwives. Whatever the case, Victoria Nuland did not make it to Nur Sultan, Kazakhstan, and in consequence the Maidan was still born.

It would have been a tough sell either way. If the Maidan was not still born, Kazakh President Tokayev was waiting at the entrance of the womb pregnant with the Maidan not unlike some dreaded abortionist, with a pair of forceps, ready to drive them into the emergent foetus. He issued without hesitation a shoot to kill order. The funny thing is there was no global uproar. The shoot to kill order sounded rather barbaric to me, and maybe out of the times, which is why I thought there would be a global uproar.

And just in case Kazakh President Tokayev botched the abortion and the Maidan still had legs Putin was on hand to lend a mailed fist. It did the trick. The Maidan is no more.

Is this another pick up for Putin after Belarus?

Kazakhstan 'Stabilized' After Nearly 8000 Arrested, 164 Killed in Protests: Officials​

BY KATIE WERMUS ON 1/10/22 AT 1:16 PM EST



Thousands of people were arrested and over 150 people were killed during violent protests last week over the sudden increase in gas prices, Kazakhstan officials said Monday.
The National Security Committee said Monday the situation has now been "stabilized and is under control" after violent protests damaged parts of the country.
The protests began on January 2 after the government lifted its price cap on fuel. The cost of liquefied petroleum gas, which most people in Central Asia use for their vehicles, nearly doubled in price immediately, NPR reported.

Kazakhstan 'Stabilized' After Nearly 8000 Arrested, 164 Killed in Protests

The protests in Kazakhstan over soaring fuel prices "were hijacked by terrorists, extremists and criminal groups," said the country's Foreign Ministry.

www.newsweek.com

Tokayev acted rightly in protecting his country from these people. The only way to repress these sorts of revolutionaries is with overwhelming force, anything less will signal to their backers that a country is ripe for the picking.

 

[Evilroddy]

Tokayev acted rightly in protecting his country from these people. The only way to repress these sorts of revolutionaries is with overwhelming force, anything less will signal to their backers that a country is ripe for the picking.

AmNat:

"...his country..." from "...these people..."? So Khazakstan belongs to President Tokayev and not to the people of Khazakstan? That is a telling window into how you seem to see the world. Had Tokayev not allowed the price of LNG to skyrocket over night this latest round of protest could have been avoided or mitigated quickly and peacefully. Your comments about the need for overwhelming force to crush revolutionaries is also revealing. And then there is President Putin's and President Lukashenko's role in all of this. Three totalitarian dictators joining together to use draconian force in order to keep in place status quos which bleed their peoples dry in order to line the pockets of themselves and their cliques. It's disgusting.

No cheers for you and your troika of heroes.
Evilroddy.

 

[Fabiusbile]

Three totalitarian dictators joining together to use draconian force in order to keep in place status quos which bleed their peoples dry in order to line the pockets of themselves and their cliques. It's disgusting.

It's so cute...
When the Americans have been occupying Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years, killing the local population there... It is ok.
Just lovely.

 

[Evilroddy]

It's so cute...
When the Americans have been occupying Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years, killing the local population there... It is ok.
Just lovely.

Fabiusbile:

I suggest you do a forum search of my positions on US militarism, especially in the Greater Middle East. You have no idea what you're talking about with respect to my positions.

Cheers and just lovely to you too, cutie.
Evilroddy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Fabiusbile:

I suggest you do a forum search of my positions on US militarism, especially in the Greater Middle East. You have no idea what you're talking about with respect to my positions.

Cheers and just lovely to you too, cutie.
Evilroddy.

Being a former Russian guard in the Gulags, he doesn't much care about accuracy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The midwife was too late. It is not clear what tied up Victoria Nuland, the midwife of maidans.

Lol. No one wants Kazakhstan. Not even Russia, who considers Kazakhstan as a second class Asian country.

Stalin flooded northern Kazakhstan with ethnic Russians to keep the country in Moscow's "sphere".

One result is that Russian is the main language in northern Kazakhstan and Kazakh the main language in southern Kazakhstan.

Isn't it wonderful how Russia ****s up other nations?

 

[AmNat]

AmNat:

"...his country..." from "...these people..."? So Khazakstan belongs to President Tokayev and not to the people of Khazakstan? That is a telling window into how you seem to see the world. Had Tokayev not allowed the price of LNG to skyrocket over night this latest round of protest could have been avoided or mitigated quickly and peacefully. Your comments about the need for overwhelming force to crush revolutionaries is also revealing. And then there is President Putin's and President Lukashenko's role in all of this. Three totalitarian dictators joining together to use draconian force in order to keep in place status quos which bleed their peoples dry in order to line the pockets of themselves and their cliques. It's disgusting.

No cheers for you and your troika of heroes.
Evilroddy.

I know very little about the domestic politics of Kazakhstan, whether Tokayev is a good leader, etc. What I do know is that he is, for better or worse, the leader of Kazakhstan, and therefore had a duty to protect it from being reduced to a satellite of Washington. For that I commend him.

 

[Evilroddy]

I know very little about the domestic politics of Kazakhstan, whether Tokayev is a good leader, etc. What I do know is that he is, for better or worse, the leader of Kazakhstan, and therefore had a duty to protect it from being reduced to a satellite of Washington. For that I commend him.

AmNat:

Washington had virtually nothing to do with this discontent as far as I know. This was all internal to the CIS. Jacked up domestic LNG prices were the spark which ignited this round of protests. Laminated below that is a nebulous power struggle between agents of the still very powerful but retired Kazakh leader Nazurbayev and his hand-picked successor Tokayev, who seems to have gone a bit rogue in the eyes of the Old Guard. Washington's only role, as far as I know, is to have been complaining about what is happening. The alleged coup d'etat, if one was unfolding, was an internal one. There is no independent confirmation of a coup except the removal of several military and political figures from places of authority and approximately 10,000 alleged protesters who have been arrested and rounded up in a very wide and indiscriminate dragnet by internal security forces.

So is Kazakhstan the personal property of Tokayev or does it belong to all Kazakhs? Is draconian violence warranted/needed when an energy producing country decides to impoverish its own citizens overnight with a rapid and very large increase in LNG prices because they can get more money selling it abroad, in order to line the pockets of well-connected elites? Is there any real proof that the underlying power struggle/possible coup(?) was anything but an internal matter, likely a consolidation of power by the Tokayev Regime? Were Russian and Belarusian troops really needed or was this grand political theatre performed in Eurasia which was designed to cover up such a consolidation of power?

The truth of matters is seldom obvious and understanding what's going on requires more than superficial knowledge and visceral reactions based on pre-existing ideological biases. I don't know exactly what's going on but based on what I do know the bread crumbs of this tragedy seem to lead to Tokayev's own poor governance and to Moscow and Mr Putin who benefit from showing "Russian might" on the cheap.

Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Being a former Russian guard in the Gulags, he doesn't much care about accuracy.

Rogue Valley:

I did not know this. Thank you for pointing that out. If true, it is illuminating. But who knows what's true on a forum like this? People say all sorts of things about themselves which aren't necessarily true on forums.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[AmNat]

AmNat:

Washington had virtually nothing to do with this discontent as far as I know. This was all internal to the CIS. Jacked up domestic LNG prices were the spark which ignited this round of protests. Laminated below that is a nebulous power struggle between agents of the still very powerful but retired Kazakh leader Nazurbayev and his hand-picked successor Tokayev, who seems to have gone a bit rogue in the eyes of the Old Guard. Washington's only role, as far as I know, is to have been complaining about what is happening. The alleged coup d'etat, if one was unfolding, was an internal one. There is no independent confirmation of a coup except the removal of several military and political figures from places of authority and approximately 10,000 alleged protesters who have been arrested and rounded up in a very wide and indiscriminate dragnet by internal security forces.

So is Kazakhstan the personal property of Tokayev or does it belong to all Kazakhs? Is draconian violence warranted/needed when an energy producing country decides to impoverish its own citizens overnight with a rapid and very large increase in LNG prices because they can get more money selling it abroad, in order to line the pockets of well-connected elites? Is there any real proof that the underlying power struggle/possible coup(?) was anything but an internal matter, likely a consolidation of power by the Tokayev Regime? Were Russian and Belarusian troops really needed or was this grand political theatre performed in Eurasia which was designed to cover up such a consolidation of power?

The truth of matters is seldom obvious and understanding what's going on requires more than superficial knowledge and visceral reactions based on pre-existing ideological biases. I don't know exactly what's going on but based on what I do know the bread crumbs of this tragedy seem to lead to Tokayev's own poor governance and to Moscow and Mr Putin who benefit from showing "Russian might" on the cheap.

Evilroddy.

Well, again, I don't know much of anything about Kazakhstan's internal politics. So if this is just an internal matter that's my mistake. But "popular" attempts to overthrow foreign governments are usually sponsored by USG, so my assumption was a reasonable one.

 

[Juin]

Being a former Russian guard in the Gulags, he doesn't much care about accuracy.

How would you know who was a guard at a Gulag?

 

[Juin]

Being a former Russian guard in the Gulags, he doesn't much care about accuracy.

Rogue Valley:

I did not know this. Thank you for pointing that out. If true, it is illuminating. But who knows what's true on a forum like this? People say all sorts of things about themselves which aren't necessarily true on forums.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

I am still baffled as to how it is determined that an individual was guard in the Gulags. Was it through google? Gulag websites? KGB files?

 

[Juin]

Tokayev acted rightly in protecting his country from these people. The only way to repress these sorts of revolutionaries is with overwhelming force, anything less will signal to their backers that a country is ripe for the picking.

Correct. It is amazing how easily a country can unravel once there is a sense that the top is coming unglued.

 

[Juin]

I know very little about the domestic politics of Kazakhstan, whether Tokayev is a good leader, etc. What I do know is that he is, for better or worse, the leader of Kazakhstan, and therefore had a duty to protect it from being reduced to a satellite of Washington. For that I commend him.

It must also be kept in mind that a Maidan does not necessarily wind up where the initial activists may want it to. Enlightened activists may start it, but Islamists may wind up with the power. Egypt being a case in point. The Moslem Brotherhood wound up the beneficiary of a revolution started by enlightened activists. Luckily for Egypt the military remained intact and were able to evict the Brotherhood, Syria is also another even more tragic example. Libya another example.

Now, Islamists seizing power in Kazakhstan poses a very serious problem for Russia. Russia has an extremely long frontier with Kazakhstan. As well as substantial moslem populations of its own in the likes of Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia etc... And that is not the worst of it. Islamists seizing Kazakhstan exposes just about the rest of the 'stans: Turkmenitan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan to Islamic seizure. With Taliban already in control of Afghanistan, it is not hard to imagine the zeal they would have jumped into the fray.

Too many players. Turkey also sees itself as the head of Turkik peoples, which in its view includes all the 'stans. So if the Maidan started dragging on and on the likelihood of Turkish mischief would have increased.

So it may not be surprising that the Russian Nato acted with unusual rapidity

 

[Juin]

Lol. No one wants Kazakhstan. Not even Russia, who considers Kazakhstan as a second class Asian country.

The facts dont bear you out. You are worse than propaganda dept of the defunct Soviet Union.

I looked up a comparison of Kazakhstan vs Ukraine. The GDP per capita of Kazakhstan is about two and a half times that of Ukraine. 2020 had Kazakhstan's GDP per capita at $9,131 and that of Ukraine at $3,741.

Stalin flooded northern Kazakhstan with ethnic Russians to keep the country in Moscow's "sphere".

Russian presence in present day Kazakhstan precedes Stalin, it goes back as far as Czarist Russia

One result is that Russian is the main language in northern Kazakhstan and Kazakh the main language in southern Kazakhstan.

Isn't it wonderful how Russia ****s up other nations?

Ukraine was f+++ up by Poles as well.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Rogue Valley:

I did not know this. Thank you for pointing that out. If true, it is illuminating. But who knows what's true on a forum like this? People say all sorts of things about themselves which aren't necessarily true on forums.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

That information is located in his introductory thread in our "Come in and say Hi" forum. He was brand new here then and the information was voluntary.

He is a retired Gulag guard that IIRC worked in the Mordovia region, where Russia's toughest penal colonies are located.

 

[Evilroddy]

That information is located in his introductory thread in our "Come in and say Hi" forum. He was brand new here then and the information was voluntary.

He is a retired Gulag guard that IIRC worked in the Mordovia region, where Russia's toughest penal colonies are located.

Rogue Valley:

Fabiusbile has expanded and refined his description of his role in the Russian penal system in post #15 here:

What is your opinion on assassinations being carried out by the government?

Do you support this, oppose it, or have a neutral opinion on it? Do you think there is any good purpose it could serve. For example, if the CIA decided to have idiots who peddle critical theory (such as in publicly-funded schools, on social media, etc) and other dangerous ideas assassinated, I...

debatepolitics.com

He does not like the term "guard", apparently.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Rogue Valley:

Fabiusbile has expanded and refined his description of his role in the Russian penal system in post #15 here:

What is your opinion on assassinations being carried out by the government?

Do you support this, oppose it, or have a neutral opinion on it? Do you think there is any good purpose it could serve. For example, if the CIA decided to have idiots who peddle critical theory (such as in publicly-funded schools, on social media, etc) and other dangerous ideas assassinated, I...

debatepolitics.com

He does not like the term "guard", apparently.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

I was a convict supervision officer...

Semantics. He was a guard