sear
Advisor, aka "bub"
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2017
- Messages
- 925
- Reaction score
- 122
- Location
- Adirondack Park, NY
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Undisclosed
The difference between us is I don't exceed the limits of my knowledge and make ignorant amateurish assertions about "Try polling more real people" OF #270"Clearly neither do you" OF
You're conspicuously firing blind, and in the dark."or the pollsters themselves." OF
I vividly remember."Right up to election day, they were sitting in front of the tv cameras assuring us that Trump had no path to victory." OF
You see, those young adults look at paying hundred of dollars per month premiums with an average deductible of $6000.00 to $12,000 are saying: What's the point?
So, you are a part of the demographic that took it in the shorts - the not yet seniors who weren't eligible for subsidies. Ouch. That is something that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, all of the kerfluffle of "repeal and replace" isn't helping. It has become a partisan brawl rather than a sober discussion of practical solutions to the health care crisis.
As for those young people who don't want to subsidize oldsters, don't you see a bit of a conflict with your personal experience? If the youth had actually been subsidizing your health insurance, then your premiums should have gone down, not up.
Well unless you just taxed the rich.You would see tax rates soar to cover everyone which would hit working Americans the hardest.
Well unless you just taxed the rich.
Sport....I did not take it in the shorts until Obamacare passed. And Obamacare is dying because it is an insanely stupid concept to begin with. The young and healthy did not have to subsidize my healthcare prior to Obamacare and my rates were relatively reasonable based on the my own health and the risks my the risks of my age group. And I have no desire to ask the young and healthy to subsidize my healthcare in their premiums. The young and healthy are just starting out in life compared to us baby boomers. They have their own problems. They are just getting started in their careers, raising families, buying homes etc. Why would I want them to pay significantly higher rates they cannot necessarily afford just for the sake of a generation loaded with couch potatoes with bad health habits such as chain smoking, heavy drinking, etc? You need to get over our apparent belief that Health Insurance in the US should be operated as if we were a soviet style collective. Private health insurance is a private sector product. It should not be subsidized by the government or run by the government. If the government would step back with the exception of relatively few common sense regulations, market forces would control the price of health insurance, just as with other forms of insurance.
which has proven to not work.
the average tax in European countries for someone making 55k which is about the median income in America is 40%
total. in some places it is higher where the total tax rate hits 50%.
that doesn't include the vat taxes that are on top of everything else.
sanders proved that taxing the rich can't pay for it.
Just think of it as direct trickle down economics.
as usual you have nothing to say on what was actually said.
If the young and healthy started paying more after the ACA,
and if that offset the actual cost for older Americans,
and if you're an older American,
Why did your premiums go up when the ACA was passed?
This makes no sense..
But, I don't doubt you when you say your premiums went up. I have friends who are in their early '60s, not old enough for Medicare, and their health insurance is outrageous. It's no wonder they want to overturn the ACA, but...
your reasoning for the increase in payments doesn't make sense.
The young and healthy are just starting out in life compared to us baby boomers. They have their own problems. They are just getting started in their careers, raising families, buying homes etc.
Obamacare approved plans must carry all sorts of coverage I simply do not need....for example....do you really think a 63 year old male needs prenatal care or maternity coverage?
I never suggested that the rates going up for the young and healthy caused my rates to go up. I only suggested that the concept of the young and healthy subsidizing us older folks is insanely stupid. There are other big reasons my rates went up. One is the insanely stupid one size fits all approach. Obamacare approved plans must carry all sorts of coverage I simply do not need....for example....do you really think a 63 year old male needs prenatal care or maternity coverage? Forcing pre-existing coverage into every policy also drives the rates up. It's like going with liability only coverage on your automobile, then wrecking your are and after the fact signing up for collision and comprehensive coverage and expectingyour auto insurance to retroactively cover your car getting totaled.
Your problem is that you are only hearing what you want to hear and you are then jumping to conclusions.
I only suggested that the concept of the young and healthy subsidizing us older folks is insanely stupid.
Is this something I misheard, then?
It is the very essence of insurance to pool risk."I stand by my statement that the young and healthy subsidizing us older folks is insanely stupid." OF #288
It is the very essence of insurance to pool risk.
And within any insured population, there are those that are more at risk, and those that are less at risk.
Is it any wonder that the older a citizen gets, the more likely they are to need healthcare?
btw:
Q: Know why you shouldn't say the number 288 in mixed company?
A: It's two gross.
"Only"?"Whether you like it or not, the only system that works is if each of the insured's premiums are based on their own risk factors." OF #290
Insurers have had charts for this for over a lifetime. It's standard."The younger insured's premiums should be based on their own risk factors. That's how insurance has always worked." OF #290
CBO has scored McConnell care, and reports that tens of millions would lose coverage with a "repeal and replace" switch from Obamacare to McConnell care."One of the great stupidities of Obamacare is the over and above rates for the younger insured has been running too many young Americans away from contributing." OF #290
No.....you are just limiting your scope to that and observing nothing else. I stand by my statement that the young and healthy subsidizing us older folks is insanely stupid. However I also stand by my statement that it is not the only fault of the A.C.A. The one size fits all approach of writing policies is insanely stupid as well.....as is requiring that pre-existing coverage is built into every policy written. Forcing employers to provide coverage is also insanely stupid.
You are confused. Personal responsibility is voluntary. The federal government forcing you to buy a particular good or service is authoritarian
We are a representative democracy, not a communist collective.
Absolutely not. The best way to spread the risk around is to make health insurance affordable with market reforms, not government edicts. If insurance is affordable, their will be more then enough insured to spread the risk around.
That's funny considering what I do for a living. But yes.. I know exactly what a heart bypass gets reimbursed by insurance. Have you ever priced what it costs for a neurosurgeon to do complex surgery on a head injury, then the cost of ICU and ventilator why you are medically paralyzed for 3 weeks, until you are let up off the ventilator and placed on CPAP trials, with physical therapy, and speech therapy, with swallow studies, then another month in step down, and then finally a rehab hospital for another 60 days, then home health and outpatient therapies?Have you ever priced a heart bypass, especially with complications?
Once again, we are not living in the old USSR or modern day Red China. Taking chances with healthcare is an individual choice, not a state or federal government choice.
In a system based on pricing policies based one's individual risk factors, spreading of the risk still occurs.
ha"You don't need coverage for pre existing conditions until you have one. You don't need fire insurance until you have a fire." Dn #293
That's right.. and that's because when you die without life insurance.. you don't leave ME a bill for 630,000 for your death. However, when you wreck your Honda 650 without healthcare insurance.. you STILL GET HEALTHCARE. and that means that I and everyone else with healthcare insurance gets STUCK WITH YOUR BILL.Obamacarefail said:And not everyone has life insurance, yet the money is still there
I do have one question. I believe I have asked you this in the past, but never received a straight answer. Your stance on Health insurance fits right in with Obama, Chuck Schumer, and Nancy Pelosi?
I never suggested that the rates going up for the young and healthy caused my rates to go up. I only suggested that the concept of the young and healthy subsidizing us older folks is insanely stupid. There are other big reasons my rates went up. One is the insanely stupid one size fits all approach. Obamacare approved plans must carry all sorts of coverage I simply do not need....for example....do you really think a 63 year old male needs prenatal care or maternity coverage? Forcing pre-existing coverage into every policy also drives the rates up. It's like going with liability only coverage on your automobile, then wrecking your are and after the fact signing up for collision and comprehensive coverage and expectingyour auto insurance to retroactively cover your car getting totaled.
Your problem is that you are only hearing what you want to hear and you are then jumping to conclusions.
Your problem is that you are only hearing what you want to hear and you are then jumping to conclusions.
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