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Karl "Blood and Guts" Rove, American Hero!

26 X World Champs

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Alastor said:
I never claimed to be an expert on the New York times. That's another attempt to distract the conversation.

I'm not familiar enough with the case of Kelly and Klein to comment on it, but would be happy to read about it if you produced links to it.

And you've still not provided your answers or evidence, but rather resorted to name calling and attempts to distract the conversation. Likely, because that's all you can do since it's become clear your information was wildly errant.

No problem dude, I appreciate your concession.
Sad to say you should get used to it. The modus operandi is to either provide a generalized link that is not connected to anything specific with the caveat "do your own research" or to tell you that it's not his responsibility to provide links, rather it's YOUR responsibility to disprove what he writes through YOUR links.

You used a great word, DIVERSION. That's the real modus operandi here.....
 

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gordontravels said:
Karl Rove will not be prosecuted nor will he resign or lose his job under any circumstances because of the likes of the media and others that want a story regardless if it is based in fact.
Looks like we've OUTED Godrontravels as a CIA operative! I hope Pat Fitzgerald doesn't read this board or that the NY Times finds out the truth from Gordo....

He obviously has insider information that hasn't been proven anywhere, so it must be that he's a spook with connections inside the Grand Jury and Office of the Special Prosecutor.

If, on the slight chance that he's not a CIA spy, and that his information is not coming from the Grand Jury or Fitzpatrick's office then I would conclude that his "facts" have no validity UNTIL the Special Prosecutor has completed his work.

I think it's so cool to have a real life CIA Spook on this board sharing forbidden facts with us! :surrender
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Looks like we've OUTED Godrontravels as a CIA operative! I hope Pat Fitzgerald doesn't read this board or that the NY Times finds out the truth from Gordo....

He obviously has insider information that hasn't been proven anywhere, so it must be that he's a spook with connections inside the Grand Jury and Office of the Special Prosecutor.

If, on the slight chance that he's not a CIA spy, and that his information is not coming from the Grand Jury or Fitzpatrick's office then I would conclude that his "facts" have no validity UNTIL the Special Prosecutor has completed his work.

I think it's so cool to have a real life CIA Spook on this board sharing forbidden facts with us! :surrender

You know 26 X World Champs; I have been accused for calling names when I use an adverb or adjective such as "simplistic" to describe someone's opinion they've posted. I don't call names of other posters here and if I refer to a poster I use their full nic. They chose it and I respect that. You have respect too don't you. I don't mind Gordon or Gordontravels which is the nic I choose but any other reference is something that if I did it to someone else I might be doing them wrong. Please, we may disagree on politics, method and substance but use my name and not a derogatory term. I would certainly appreciate it.

Karl Rove won't be vindicated because he has done nothing wrong in the Plame case and the Special Prosecutor knows it.
:duel :cool:
 

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gordontravels said:
I don't mind Gordon or Gordontravels which is the nic I choose but any other reference is something that if I did it to someone else I might be doing them wrong. Please, we may disagree on politics, method and substance but use my name and not a derogatory term. I would certainly appreciate it.

Karl Rove won't be vindicated because he has done nothing wrong in the Plame case and the Special Prosecutor knows it.
I apologize for using your Spy name, I outed you! Just like Plame / Wilson I outed Gordontravels/Gordo. Actually, to tell the truth, it was Bob Novak who told me. I did reveal my source to the Grand Jury because I didn't want to join Judith Miller in her special suite.
spy_vs_spy.gif
 

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In his defense, Champs, I feel similarly, and while I don't approve of his methods of argument, being rude only detracts from the points you've made, rather than bolstering them.

I thought it was good enough to simply point out that he won't substantiate his claims at all (and I maintain that this is because he can't). Now however, the conversation has gone down a different path, and that point may be lost in the nit-picking.

Besides, pointing out his flaws is enough. People will see his arguments for what they are unless you distract them with this type of behavior.

Just my opinion.
 

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Since Champs likes to move around the threads, I think it would be beneficial to all parties to show what a liar Champs really is....This is the posting from yesterday...In "Today's News - Karl Rove leaks CIA Agent"

26 X World Champs said:
Why is it that everyone here knows the outcome of the investigation?

Some of you have written that you know for sure that Rove is innocent, some have said you know he's guilty.

The TRUTH is that none of us know! We don't know what the CIA has said about her status. We don't know what Novak testified. We don't know squat which is why there's a special prosecutor.

Thinking something is logical, either way, depending on what one believes. But to write that you know something is fact is pure BS.

I will wait to see what happens before I will claim that "I know."
Now read what he wrote earlier in the SAME THREAD...

26 X World Champs said:
LOL! If this had happened during Clinton's presidency there would have been either a call for his impeachment or there would have been accusations of murder!

That transcript showed everything that is wrong with Bush and his fellow hypocrites. When it was politically safe for them to comment they do, when they are backed against the wall in the face of positive proof that Rove lied and the White House lied about outing our CIA agents they hide behind the bullshit.

It's so revealing to see some of you hide with the Bushies. Usually you're all so smug, so confident, and now that the shi* has hit the fan you refuse to admit the truth.

Rove is an evil GENIUS. Too bad for him that he was outed when he outed Valerie Plame. Recall that Bush said that The White House promised if anyone was involved in the Valerie Plame affair, they would no longer be in this administration.

Rove is INVOLVED up to his serpent like tongue. You guys love to call Dems traitors. What do you call a man who reveals the identity of one of our spies, and does so to punish her husband? I call him a monster.

Everyone can see you for the liar that you are Champs...As long as you're here, I'll be around to make sure everyone is reminded of it.
 

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Is it possible that his views changed over the course of several days as new facts were revealed?
 

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Alastor said:
In his defense, Champs, I feel similarly, and while I don't approve of his methods of argument, being rude only detracts from the points you've made, rather than bolstering them.

I thought it was good enough to simply point out that he won't substantiate his claims at all (and I maintain that this is because he can't). Now however, the conversation has gone down a different path, and that point may be lost in the nit-picking.

Besides, pointing out his flaws is enough. People will see his arguments for what they are unless you distract them with this type of behavior.

Just my opinion.
My post was intended to be light-hearted / ironic re spying and insider information....I was in no way messing with Gordon's name. If he took offense I apologize.

I think if you read the post you'll see it was written with levity?
 

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I think if you read the post you'll see it was written with levity?

I did not interpret it as "playful jest" by any stretch. Not that that's a problem of course, not mine at any rate... but I certainly did get the idea it was an assault on him.

Though he may have in some regards deserved that assault, it certainly does seem to be a pretty blatant assault and not "an attempt at levity."

Again, just my double-oh-two.
 

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Alastor said:
Is it possible that his views changed over the course of several days as new facts were revealed?

I got curious so I went and looked at the threads. One statement was from July 11th - the one with-holding any judgment. That would have been before the newest revelations about Rove's involvement, and the knowledge that Plame was covert.

The other post, the one calling Rove a "monster" is from yesterday, July 26th, after that information had become common knowledge.

I think it's entirely possible, Pacridge, that this is indeed the case. He simply gained new information and made a judgment.

But I'll let him speak for himself on the matter. I'm suspecting that's the case, however.
 

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cnredd said:
Everyone can see you for the liar that you are Champs...As long as you're here, I'll be around to make sure everyone is reminded of it.
Your comments are vindictive. I was wrong when I jumped to conclusions re Ahole Rove, and I corrected my mistake by my last post.

That does not make me a liar. Your post, however, shows that you have a personal grudge against me because you do not like my politics. You may continue to hang on my every word if that gets you off.

Your comment about me shows the kind of guy you are. I thought the comment was lame...why don't you get your best bud Teacher (if he's back from being suspended from this site) and write some more posts that are purely written to belittle me or other liberals?

Maybe then you'll get suspended like Teacher?
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Your comments are vindictive. I was wrong when I jumped to conclusions re Ahole Rove, and I corrected my mistake by my last post.

That does not make me a liar. Your post, however, shows that you have a personal grudge against me because you do not like my politics. You may continue to hang on my every word if that gets you off.

Unless a retraction came forth, which one just did because I made your hypocritical comments public, then it is a lie. Correcting it at the time of the post would be honorable...correcting it when you're called on it is not.

As for your "personal grudge" comment, you would probably like to know why I have none of the same animosity towards Pacridge, Shuamort, Surrenderer, Kelzie, or the others? Because there are only TWO people on this website that consistantly get them selves caught in lies, deceit, and misquoting...YOU & Billo Really. If it were JUST this one time, it wouldn't have been a big deal...But YOU have repeatedly falsified other people quotes, moved the goalposts, and mislead people debating here to make yourself feel "right".

The first 30 times I let slide...but now I take it upon myself to let everyone know what you really are.

26 X World Champs said:
Your comment about me shows the kind of guy you are. I thought the comment was lame...why don't you get your best bud Teacher (if he's back from being suspended from this site) and write some more posts that are purely written to belittle me or other liberals?

Maybe then you'll get suspended like Teacher?

What you think of my comments is not my concern...As for taking shots at Liberals, take a look at this morning's post, FROM ME, in "The Basement - 10 Reasons Republicans Know No Joy"(And you say "I" attack liberals?!?!)

I am an equal-opportunistic smackdown artist....

cnredd said:
From the Conservtive Cracker Compund in Philadelphia....
Top Ten Reasons you can tell you're at a Republican party...

10)Parking lot filled with pick-up trucks with gun racks....
9) DJ?...Sir Prays-A-Lot
8)Tom DeLay gets drunk and does his imitation of John McCain
7)Coat check?....See that guy Rudy
6)Santorum's on the dance floor holding a rosary circle
5)Rush is doing his "hidden pill" trick
4)Condi Rice is searched at the door
3)Ann Coulter strips down to her "Vote for THIS Bush" panties
2)Bill Frist's top button is undone

And the #1 reason you can tell you're at at Republican party...

1)**** Cheney's daughter?...not invited

I even smacked around tr1414 earler today, and he's 10 times more conservative than I'll ever be....The War on Terror -Make English the Official language of the U.S?...Post #21...This was while he was going off on a liberal(shuamort). Pidgeon-hole me, huh? Looks like you're just plain 'ol wrong again. But I wouldn't expect anything else....
 

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Alastor said:
I got curious so I went and looked at the threads. One statement was from July 11th - the one with-holding any judgment. That would have been before the newest revelations about Rove's involvement, and the knowledge that Plame was covert.

The other post, the one calling Rove a "monster" is from yesterday, July 26th, after that information had become common knowledge.

I think it's entirely possible, Pacridge, that this is indeed the case. He simply gained new information and made a judgment.

But I'll let him speak for himself on the matter. I'm suspecting that's the case, however.

Alastor, your bold statements are in the wrong order...

Champs said he was withholding his judgement....15 days AFTER claiming he was "guilty"...not the other way around.
 

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gordontravels said:
And you prove my point. The NYT's is cool and MRC is untrustworthy so you stay with the liberal flagship and skip that which could at the very least give you something to question the NYT's about. I don't trust CBS at all but I watch them from time to time. I watch what I consider to be liberal networks nearly 90% of the time. I see MSNBC put up conservatives as co-hosts and watch them be careful not to be "too conservative". What is so hard about understanding that a liberal leaning network won't give you the other side or even not report something that is news somewhere else. I could say it is what you want to hear but then, what are you doing here?

Valerie Plame was not covert under the law that governs the CIA and the very column that started all this says so. The Special Prosecutor has said she was not covert and that Karl Rove is not a subject of the investigation. Is there some problem with that? All the testimony in the Grand Jury says Karl Rove got her name and didn't give it. Who broke any law?

She sent her husband to Africa and in a memo told him to go check out these "rediculous rumors". Why investigate if she believed that without an investigation. He wrote a CIA report when he came back from Africa that stated he couldn't confirm or deny that Saddam was trying to get enriched uranium. When he quit the CIA, became an anti-war activist and wrote his book he said Saddam wasn't trying to get uranium. Which was the truth and what motive could he have had in writing such a thing in his book that he was trying to get money for, huh? Is he a good guy and Rove a bad guy?

If you think the NYT's is cool read it. I read it every day and don't think it's cool. If you don't think the MRC is trustworthy read it. It will re-enforce what you think about the NYT's. BUT... it may also make you wonder about something you read in the NYT's. That kind of cross reference makes me question and look to more outlets. If you like to debate here why not hear both sides when you get the news? If you don't how can you debate? Or do you simply think there is only one side? Sorry for he use of the word simply.

You will never find me registering as a Democrat or Republican. They should be an embarassment to anyone with a mind. As soon as I can register non-partisan and drop Independent I will. And watch the media refer to the Democrats as the Democratic Party which they aren't. Bias? You too?
:duel :cool:




You might think that. The reason is I.M.O. because you are completely ignorant on the facts. The FACTS are that the media is completly biased in the respect that all the stories you watch & urge you to claim liberal foul are biased stories such as the ones saying VP was not covert. It was known she was for 2 years. If you want unbiased news watch CSPAN you can here with your own ears what is being said in the House and the Senate. It is VERRY CONTRARY to that of the mainstream media. The fact is that Coorporate America is running YOUR PRESIDENT, YOUR MEDIA and YOU right into the gutter. Pay your Republican dues !!!! Give them your first born.

PS you got a prescription for that bottle of Vitamin C?
 

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cnredd said:
As for your "personal grudge" comment, you would probably like to know why I have none of the same animosity towards Pacridge, Shuamort, Surrenderer, Kelzie, or the others? Because there are only TWO people on this website that consistantly get them selves caught in lies, deceit, and misquoting...YOU & Billo Really. If it were JUST this one time, it wouldn't have been a big deal...But YOU have repeatedly falsified other people quotes, moved the goalposts, and mislead people debating here to make yourself feel "right".
Your comments are bullshit and of course meant to be nasty. You accomplished both, congrats.

You've been called out by me when I cited your EXACT words to disprove what you were claiming to be fact, that is called DEBATING. I do not lie. You and Teacher write nasty posts purposely meant to belittle others, congratulations.

For example, Teacher claims I lied about a monkey picture of Bush. In truth I forgot that I had posted a monkey picture of Bush. as it was a joke and since I've posted more than 1000 times I didn't remember. That does not make me a liar. I even "apologized" for forgetting I posted Bush Monkey pics and then posted more Bush monkey pics.

You're not debating anyone, you're attacking people on this board. You never provide any sources to your claims, and when challenged you attack the poster but never debate the points that are being challenged. You then make it personal and continue to make posts directed at hurting me or others, for example, just tonight in a totally different thread you wrote:
I did yesterday...check out Post #334(from me) in "Today's News - Karl Rove leaks CIA Agent"...

It's hysterical...he hasn't been back to that thread since...
That was in a thread I've never posted in, yet you reveled in trying to belittle me. You also do it to other Liberals you disagree with. Instead of debating facts you make it personal. like this quote that you wrote:
Wipe your mouth IValueFreedom...you have a little Schumer-spoo on your lips...

Let's go back to this post that I wrote quoting various posts that you made and your prose regarding Democrats and liberals:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=46129&postcount=30

Ever since I wrote that post exposing what I consider to be a bias toward Liberals you've written multiple posts attacking me personally. It appears to me that you get off on it, that it excites you, that you get some type of thrill out of trying to hurt someone. That is simply MHO.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Your comments are bullshit and of course meant to be nasty. You accomplished both, congrats.

You've been called out by me when I cited your EXACT words to disprove what you were claiming to be fact, that is called DEBATING. I do not lie. You and Teacher write nasty posts purposely meant to belittle others, congratulations.

For example, Teacher claims I lied about a monkey picture of Bush. In truth I forgot that I had posted a monkey picture of Bush. as it was a joke and since I've posted more than 1000 times I didn't remember. That does not make me a liar. I even "apologized" for forgetting I posted Bush Monkey pics and then posted more Bush monkey pics.

You're not debating anyone, you're attacking people on this board. You never provide any sources to your claims, and when challenged you attack the poster but never debate the points that are being challenged. You then make it personal and continue to make posts directed at hurting me or others, for example, just tonight in a totally different thread you wrote:

That was in a thread I've never posted in, yet you reveled in trying to belittle me. You also do it to other Liberals you disagree with. Instead of debating facts you make it personal. like this quote that you wrote:


Let's go back to this post that I wrote quoting various posts that you made and your prose regarding Democrats and liberals:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=46129&postcount=30

Ever since I wrote that post exposing what I consider to be a bias toward Liberals you've written multiple posts attacking me personally. It appears to me that you get off on it, that it excites you, that you get some type of thrill out of trying to hurt someone. That is simply MHO.

All attacks on you(and Billo) are purposefully meant to show the other people here that you are not to be taken for your word. It's my way of saying, "Be careful...you're dealing with a proven liar..."

And as for me...You say I'm some sort of "cheap-shot" artist?!?!?

Where the heck of you been? Of course I am!...I get what I give...You've shown the people here a few instances where I make snide comments, especially towards Liberals. Guess what?...I can point you to 100 more!...are you going to show all of the posts beforehand when I was the recipient of the first shot?...Didn't think so. People here, at least, know I'm upfront. That's a ton better than being misleading.

Talk to the regulars from your side of the aisle....Ask them how many times they needed to "keep me in check"....Go on...ask 'em....
 

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BTW -

"Wipe your mouth IValueFreedom...you have a little Schumer-spoo on your lips..."

That's one of my ALL-TIME comments...pure gold. :2razz:
 

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Alastor, your bold statements are in the wrong order...

I acknowledge the following:

I am drunk, and it's possible that I made an error.
I will re-examine the time-line when sober.
 

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Alastor said:
I acknowledge the following:

I am drunk, and it's possible that I made an error.
I will re-examine the time-line when sober.

Great answer!...I'm at work right now, but there have been times I've been here after a night of Black & Tans...
 

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cnredd said:
All attacks on you(and Billo) are purposefully meant to show the other people here that you are not to be taken for your word. It's my way of saying, "Be careful...you're dealing with a proven liar..."
I think your comments are full of crap. I think you purposely try to hurt people who disagree with you. That's not cool, I think it's proof positive of all around ignorance.
cnredd said:
And as for me...You say I'm some sort of "cheap-shot" artist?!?!?

Where the heck of you been? Of course I am!...I get what I give...You've shown the people here a few instances where I make snide comments, especially towards Liberals. Guess what?...I can point you to 100 more!....
I'm sure you can since it seems that every post that I've read from you contains some sort of personal attack or some sort of backslapping for a previous post's personal attack.

The respect generated by that type of post equals the level of intelligence it takes to write it, which is zero IMHO.

How come when you're asked to provide proof for the blustery claims that you make you never produce proof? How come instead you choose to make, using your words, "snide comments"? Is it that you're unable to make any points that are truthful so instead of admitting you were wrong you attack the person who proved you wrong?

That is how I interpret your posts, but that is just MHO.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
I think your comments are full of crap. I think you purposely try to hurt people who disagree with you. That's not cool, I think it's proof positive of all around ignorance.

I'm sure you can since it seems that every post that I've read from you contains some sort of personal attack or some sort of backslapping for a previous post's personal attack.

The respect generated by that type of post equals the level of intelligence it takes to write it, which is zero IMHO.

How come when you're asked to provide proof for the blustery claims that you make you never produce proof? How come instead you choose to make, using your words, "snide comments"? Is it that you're unable to make any points that are truthful so instead of admitting you were wrong you attack the person who proved you wrong?

That is how I interpret your posts, but that is just MHO.

Left out the rest of my post again? Why? It's only the part that you don't want to address?....

here it is...

cnredd said:
...are you going to show all of the posts beforehand when I was the recipient of the first shot?...Didn't think so. People here, at least, know I'm upfront. That's a ton better than being misleading.

Talk to the regulars from your side of the aisle....Ask them how many times they needed to "keep me in check"....Go on...ask 'em....

Just proving you mislead...once again...just another day....
 

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cnredd said:
Left out the rest of my post again? Why? It's only the part that you don't want to address?....

Just proving you mislead...once again...just another day....
I think your posts are pure bullshit. I left out the irrelevant and unimportant portions. It was done intentionally because it is unnecessary to quote an entire post. I was addressing specifics.

I did note that you did not comment at all about my post, you only, again, diverted attention from ALL of the points that I made. Not surprising at all, for as far as I can see you never address anything in your posts.

This last post is an A #1 perfect example of your modus operandi, IMHO. I make the point that you never do anything in your posts but belittle others and avoid answering any challenges to you, just as you did now. I feel you're incapable of debating, for you never do. All that I ever see are posts that are meant to belittle anyone who disagrees with you.

I think you've been exposed. You're consistent, I'll give you that.

Why do you hang out at a forum called DEBATE POLITICS without ever debating? I believe the term for people who make inflammatory posts on purpose, regularly is TROLL.
images
 

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26 X World Champs said:
I think your posts are pure bullshit. I left out the irrelevant and unimportant portions. It was done intentionally because it is unnecessary to quote an entire post. I was addressing specifics.

I did note that you did not comment at all about my post, you only, again, diverted attention from ALL of the points that I made. Not surprising at all, for as far as I can see you never address anything in your posts.

This last post is an A #1 perfect example of your modus operandi, IMHO. I make the point that you never do anything in your posts but belittle others and avoid answering any challenges to you, just as you did now. I feel you're incapable of debating, for you never do. All that I ever see are posts that are meant to belittle anyone who disagrees with you.

I think you've been exposed. You're consistent, I'll give you that.

Why do you hang out at a forum called DEBATE POLITICS without ever debating? I believe the term for people who make inflammatory posts on purpose, regularly is TROLL.
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"I think your posts are crap"..."I think your posts are pure bullshit"...with debating skills like that how you possibly lose an arguement?

You and I could go round and round with this until we're blue in the face, so I'll just lay out the big picture.

You continue to inform anyone debating me that I've used snide comments and crass remarks to get my points accross...so they should be wary of me;

And I'll continue to inform anyone debating you that you have been proven to lie, mislead, & move the goalposts previously...so they should be wary of you.
 

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cnredd said:
You continue to inform anyone debating me that I've used snide comments and crass remarks to get my points accross...so they should be wary of me
No one can debate you, IMHO, because you never debate. Posts that are only meant to putdown someone does not constitute a debate, sorry.

I do agree on one thing, however, this is a waste of bandwidth since you seemingly do not debate, so I will try hard to not waste my time with you anymore....
 
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