Kanye West suggests African-American slavery was 'a choice'

[Beaudreaux]

That (bolded above) is simply not so. What you really seem to mean is that making changes (often involving taking a risk) is harder than accepting what now is. The reason that you are now in college, and that I elected to become self-employed, is that we both realized that doing the same thing (simply accpeting what is) was never going to produce a different (much less, better) result for us.

I guess the best example of my outlook (attitude?) is expressed in the serenity prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

IMHO, the 'plantation attitude' is simply giving up and hoping that some outside force will come along and change your lot in life without you making any personal effort to alter your situation.

Read my sig below...

 

[TheGoverness]

That (bolded above) is simply not so. What you really seem to mean is that making changes (often involving taking a risk) is harder than accepting what now is. The reason that you are now in college, and that I elected to become self-employed, is that we both realized that doing the same thing (simply accpeting what is) was never going to produce a different (much less, better) result for us.

I guess the best example of my outlook (attitude?) is expressed in the serenity prayer:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

IMHO, the 'plantation attitude' is simply giving up and hoping that some outside force will come along and change your lot in life without you making any personal effort to alter your situation.

Oh my God. I've already said this before, I am not saying that people should just give up. They should obtain aid when they desperately needed it, but that doesn't mean you can't work to dig yourself out of a bad situation. Some people have it easy, and they can fly through life's problems with ease. And some people have nothing in terms of opportunities. Some can manage to dig out of the hole of poverty, but many cannot. And sometimes that's the fault of themselves, but a lot of times some people just get stuck in between a rock and a hard place. And some are unable to climb out at all. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, everyone should try to get themselves out of a bad situation. But many do not have the means to do so.

 

[Visbek]

Sure, he said he loves everyone. This is a guy who has a real possibility of getting killed, do you believe that?

Not really, no.

Some guy who used to rap with Snoop in the 90s Tweeted some bull**** about the Crips and Bloods going after Kanye. I see no reason to take something like that seriously.

Or, to be more precise: He is in no more or less danger than any other highly visible celebrity, and it's because of his wealth and fame rather than his political views.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Oh my God. I've already said this before, I am not saying that people should just give up. They should obtain aid when they desperately needed it, but that doesn't mean you can't work to dig yourself out of a bad situation. Some people have it easy, and they can fly through life's problems with ease. And some people have nothing in terms of opportunities. Some can manage to dig out of the hole of poverty, but many cannot. And sometimes that's the fault of themselves, but a lot of times some people just get stuck in between a rock and a hard place. And some are unable to climb out at all. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, everyone should try to get themselves out of a bad situation. But many do not have the means to do so.

The problem with most "safety net" programs is that they are not connected to any requirement that one make any necessary personal changes - they are simply a public financial reward for personal failure.

If any employer announced a new pay scale based on each employee's household size and (outside) household income as opposed to their job position then few (if any) would deem that a good idea - yet the "safety net" tends to do exactly that. The idea that adding a minor dependent (or having your spouse become unemployed) makes your paycheck larger than a co-worker (doing the same job) that lacks (as many) minor dependents (or a working spouse) is just plain crazy.

 

[Casca XV]

"When you hear about slavery for 400 years. For 400 years?! That sounds like a choice."

Oops. You got busted by facts.

Kanye West Stirs Up TMZ Newsroom Over Trump, Slavery, Free Thought | TMZ.com

Slavery started in the New World (America) in the year 1619, a year shy of 400 years ago. It ended in 1865 a 153 years ago. If any African American today claims they are a slave it's by choice.

The Mental Enslavement of Leftist Ideology is real but a person can choose not to be a part of it.

Mateo, Incase you have not noticed yet you are in over your head here.

 

[Visbek]

You should probably read what I write if you want to have a debate. I've already stated that the quote used by West was apocryphal.. which is why I then used a different quote that made essentially the same point.

It is both apocryphal and does not reflect her views. Nor does the other quote in any way suggest that she believes that "slavery was a choice."

He was an escaped slave. Clearly the life of a former slave in the north was not exactly as you want to make it. Clearly Harriet Tubman also believed the slaves had a better life in the north.

That's nice, but it proves nothing.

Perhaps you have examples of free black people who chose to become slaves?

escape was possible because it happened.

Escape was possible - but again, it rarely succeeded -- and everyone knew it. Less than 0.05% of slaves escaped in a given year. Are you willing to risk YOUR life for a 0.05% success rate?

And no, the UR wasn't a choice for the overwhelming majority of slaves. It's not like the UR had sales people roaming the countryside, selling tickets. It looms much larger in your imagination than it did in the actual lives of slaves.

All you are arguing is that escape was fraught with so much danger that a slave would CHOOSE not to attempt it.

I'm saying that from the perspective of most slaves, escape attempts had such a low rate of failure that it wasn't a choice at all.

If we follow your logic, then:
- Every citizen of North Korea who does not rise up or try to escape chooses to be in North Korea
- Every citizen in China during the Cultural Revolution made a deliberate choice to be Maoists
- Every citizen sent by Stalin to Siberia went there by choice
- If you are in prison, every day you have the choice whether or not to escape
- If you are drafted into the army, you have the choice whether or not to serve

The problem here is that you are utterly and deliberately ignoring the systemic forces arrayed against slaves and supporting slavery. Federal laws, state laws, bounty hunters, millions of whites suspicious of any blacks walking around, utter lack of resources, isolation, minimal communication, routine use of violence to discipline slaves, loss of family and religion, low literacy rates...

Sure, you can "choose" to escape, but your odds were incredibly low -- 1 out of 2000 at best -- and if you failed, you would be mercilessly abused. And yeah, the slave owners made sure everyone knew it. That's how coercion works. I have no idea why this is so difficult for you to understand.

You can't actually argue against his logic so you attack his mental health. But since you can't actually defeat his logic you are really just degrading yourself in the process.

:roll:

It's pretty clear that I am successfully demolishing his argument. In fact, I'm saying that his argument is so pathetic that it's another indicator of his mental state.

You make sure to keep them uppity negros in their place. :roll:

Well, that's not super messed up :roll:

 

[nota bene]

But clearly not a good or nuanced one. And I think he meant it.



Candace has a past with a website called Social Autopsy. It's too long of a controversy to explain in one post, but digging into her past shows that she lacks integrity, and an opportunist, with profiting off of presenting herself as the "Black Conservative".

I've read a bit at Wiki now. Difficult to understand how Owens could have been so naïve as to have not anticipated the possible exploitation by doxing.

By "opportunist" do you mean that Owens's political opinions are insincere? If she is indeed seizing the moment, does this automatically mean that she isn't?

 

[TheGoverness]

I've read a bit at Wiki now. Difficult to understand how Owens could have been so naïve as to have not anticipated the possible exploitation by doxing.

By "opportunist" do you mean that Owens's political opinions are insincere? If she is indeed seizing the moment, does this automatically mean that she isn't?

Not necessarily. And yes, that's what I mean. Watching certain interviews she's done on Dave Rubin, as well as some of the info people have gathered about her, I as well as a lot of people see that she doesn't seem to be genuine with her beliefs. Nor does her sudden transition from liberal to conservative strike me as natural. I don't think she's sincere at all with the positions she claims to hold now, and is simply riding the Anti-SJW wave to gain attention to herself. Which she's done very well, seeing as she's the go-to conservative black women conservatives tend to push. Even those lunatics at InfoWars promote her.

 

[jmotivator]

It is both apocryphal and does not reflect her views. Nor does the other quote in any way suggest that she believes that "slavery was a choice."

It absolutely reflects her views. She stated that she never knew how terrible slavery was until she was free, which is the sentiment in the fake quote.

That's nice, but it proves nothing.

Perhaps you have examples of free black people who chose to become slaves?

LOL, wut? Do you think I am arguing that being a slave was better than being free? Clearly it isn't. That is why slaves CHOSE to escape.

Escape was possible - but again, it rarely succeeded -- and everyone knew it. Less than 0.05% of slaves escaped in a given year. Are you willing to risk YOUR life for a 0.05% success rate?

And, again, the fact that the choice to escape was hard doesn't negate the fact that attempting escape was a choice.

And no, the UR wasn't a choice for the overwhelming majority of slaves. It's not like the UR had sales people roaming the countryside, selling tickets. It looms much larger in your imagination than it did in the actual lives of slaves.

The UR would offer their services to escaped slaves... are you arguing that the UR snatched slaves in the dark of night against their will? :doh

I'm saying that from the perspective of most slaves, escape attempts had such a low rate of failure that it wasn't a choice at all.

And you are making Kanye West's point here. Good job.

If we follow your logic, then:
- Every citizen of North Korea who does not rise up or try to escape chooses to be in North Korea
- Every citizen in China during the Cultural Revolution made a deliberate choice to be Maoists
- Every citizen sent by Stalin to Siberia went there by choice
- If you are in prison, every day you have the choice whether or not to escape
- If you are drafted into the army, you have the choice whether or not to serve

All perfectly true. As your very own argument suggests, they were all faced with a choice between attempting to flee and staying put, and all who stayed chose to stay because the potential cost was too high.

This condition actually plays out throughout human populations, where some people are risk averse and others are not. Much the the population settles into the go-along-to-get-along mentality and avoid making waves, while others take risks for great reward. Be that fleeing slavery, or jumping on a raft drifting towards Florida, or to sneak across the North Korean border to China.. or even take out a mortgage on your house to start a business... all contain risk and reward, and everyone CHOOSES whether the risk is worth it.

Some slaves chose to flee, others chose to stay for fear of the consequences for fleeing. Both are choices.

The problem here is that you are utterly and deliberately ignoring the systemic forces arrayed against slaves and supporting slavery. Federal laws, state laws, bounty hunters, millions of whites suspicious of any blacks walking around, utter lack of resources, isolation, minimal communication, routine use of violence to discipline slaves, loss of family and religion, low literacy rates...

No, I am CLEARLY not ignoring them. I am correctly categorizing those forces as risk that are were weighed by both escapees and those who stayed on the plantation that helped to dictate their choices.

Sure, you can "choose" to escape, but your odds were incredibly low -- 1 out of 2000 at best -- and if you failed, you would be mercilessly abused. And yeah, the slave owners made sure everyone knew it. That's how coercion works. I have no idea why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Thank you for conceding that Kanye West's point was valid. It took you long enough.

It's pretty clear that I am successfully demolishing his argument. In fact, I'm saying that his argument is so pathetic that it's another indicator of his mental state.

Hahahahaha! No. You have conceded the point... apparently by accident.

Well, that's not super messed up :roll:

Well, your argument is pretty messed up.

 

[Visbek]

IMHO, the 'plantation attitude' is simply giving up and hoping that some outside force will come along and change your lot in life without you making any personal effort to alter your situation.

Massive forces were arrayed to keep slaves in line. Federal laws, state laws, bounty hunters, whites suspicious of any free traveling black, the use of massive physical abuse to enforce discipline, the list goes on.

Did Russians under Stalin choose to be subjected to his tyranny? How about Chinese under Mao? North Koreans under the Kims? Do we fault these individuals for not escaping, when the odds of escape were low, and the punishments incredibly harsh? Do we fault them for a failure to rise up, when attempts to do so ended in bloody failures?

Back to the US.... Escapes almost always failed. And this was the typical result of attempting to escape:

They had no material possessions, they had families, they couldn't read, they would be accosted at every turn traveling alone. So tell me, what "personal effort" were those slaves supposed to take again...?

 

[poweRob]

Slavery started in the New World (America) in the year 1619, a year shy of 400 years ago. It ended in 1865 a 153 years ago. If any African American today claims they are a slave it's by choice.

The Mental Enslavement of Leftist Ideology is real but a person can choose not to be a part of it.

Mateo, Incase you have not noticed yet you are in over your head here.

I really think you should run for office and hold an event with the NAACP and tell them they are "mentally enslaved" by leftist ideology. I'd like to see how that works out for you.

The paradox of such a comment is that it states you believe that they are too stupid to make decisions on their and you are their to free them from their ignorance.

 

[Phoenix]

....
The paradox of such a comment is that it states you believe that they are too stupid to make decisions on their .........

The left does this everyday. Seems to work out alright for them.

 

[zimmer]

Kanye West suggests African-American slavery was 'a choice' - BBC News



Maybe, just maybe, people will finally start to recognize that idiots like Kanye (and his entire family, in-laws included) need to be completely ignored and forgotten.

I just can't believe how many friggin people continue to think this moron is relevant to anything.

Revealing...

1. You take what he said totally out of context... perhaps it is because you’ve been inhaling the feces fed to you by those who would like Kanye to go unheard.

2. You want him to be shut down and shut up... how Democrat of you.

3. “Idiot”?

Hmmmmmmmmmm...

 

[poweRob]

The left does this everyday. Seems to work out alright for them.

herp...

but the lefty leftists doing lefty things


derp...

 

[zimmer]

I really think you should run for office and hold an event with the NAACP and tell them they are "mentally enslaved" by leftist ideology. I'd like to see how that works out for you.

They are enslaving others... and have for a long time.

Are you suggesting the NAACP would react violently? Or what are you suggesting?

The paradox of such a comment is that it states you believe that they are too stupid to make decisions on their and you are their to free them from their ignorance.

Well, we just had Hillary say women were under the thumb of their husbands as a reason why she lost, and last I noted, the majority of women voted for Clinton.

We have seen the heavy hand of blacks and the Democrat Media come down on Kanye. The idea is to lynch him publicly so no other black celebrities leave the plantation.

Democrats cannot afford it.

 

[Phoenix]

herp...

but the lefty leftists doing STUPID things


derp...

Fixed it for you.

 

[Visbek]

The UR would offer their services to escaped slaves... are you arguing that the UR snatched slaves in the dark of night against their will?

:roll:

The UR was only able to reach a tiny fraction of the total number of slaves. You're acting like the UR was able to freely roam the South, offering every slave a chance to escape. That's absurd.

All perfectly true. As your very own argument suggests, they were all faced with a choice between attempting to flee and staying put, and all who stayed chose to stay because the potential cost was too high.

Right. It's not like Stalin or Mao or the Kims controlled the media completely, spied extensively on their citizens, controlled their livelihood, imprisoned or killed anyone who criticized the state, punished the families of dissenters, prevented citizens from leaving the country, or had armies to crush dissent. Yep, for someone living under Stalin, staying in the USSR was as trivial a choice as you picking between McDonalds and Burger King for lunch.

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you're refusing to recognize the structural mechanisms involved.

No, I am CLEARLY not ignoring them. I am correctly categorizing those forces as risk that are were weighed by both escapees and those who stayed on the plantation that helped to dictate their choices.

"Correctly".... lol

You don't even recognize the existence of duress in a totalitarian state. Epic fail.

Thank you for conceding that Kanye West's point was valid. It took you long enough.

If the only way you can "win" an argument is by cherry-picking my words, then I'm pretty sure you've lost.

 

[Casca XV]

I really think you should run for office and hold an event with the NAACP and tell them they are "mentally enslaved" by leftist ideology. I'd like to see how that works out for you.

The paradox of such a comment is that it states you believe that they are too stupid to make decisions on their and you are their to free them from their ignorance.

Leftist Ideology whether it's called Socialism ,Communism ,Fascism or cute euphemisms like Progressive or Liberal is the worst thing to ever happen to the Human Race, and it has the body counts to prove it.

Anyone who knows what it is and still believes in it is pure evil. Most of the rest are ill-informed and enslaved to it's propaganda.

People like West are opening the enslaved eyes, right now mostly Blacks.

Without a consistent 90% of the Black vote Democrats can never win another election. That is hope that this Evil Ideology is dying.

 

[poweRob]

They are enslaving others... and have for a long time.

Are you suggesting the NAACP would react violently? Or what are you suggesting?


Well, we just had Hillary say women were under the thumb of their husbands as a reason why she lost, and last I noted, the majority of women voted for Clinton.

We have seen the heavy hand of blacks and the Democrat Media come down on Kanye. The idea is to lynch him publicly so no other black celebrities leave the plantation.

Democrats cannot afford it.

There you go. Keep using inflammatory "slave" and "plantation" language to describe african americans' mentality. It's just the thing righties need to do to win people over. :lol:

 

[poweRob]

Fixed it for you.

Really? You quote people and change their text? THAT is how pathetcially weak your forum abilities are. :lol:

 

[Casca XV]

I really think you should run for office and hold an event with the NAACP and tell them they are "mentally enslaved" by leftist ideology. I'd like to see how that works out for you.

The paradox of such a comment is that it states you believe that they are too stupid to make decisions on their and you are their to free them from their ignorance.

If I were in office I would not give the NAACP or any Leftist dominated organization the time of day. They have done more to retard the African American community than Jim Crow or Segregation.

 

[poweRob]

Leftist Ideology whether it's called Socialism ,Communism ,Fascism or cute euphemisms like Progressive or Liberal is the worst thing to ever happen to the Human Race, and it has the body counts to prove it.

Anyone who knows what it is and still believes in it is pure evil. Most of the rest are ill-informed and enslaved to it's propaganda.

People like West are opening the enslaved eyes, right now mostly Blacks.

Without a consistent 90% of the Black vote Democrats can never win another election. That is hope that this Evil Ideology is dying.

Your first sentence describing fascism as leftist shows you are out of your league intellectually. But like I said, I think you all should keep your approach you have with African Americans. Keep telling them they are too stupid to know how to vote. I encourage it.

 

[poweRob]

Casca's minority outreach program. :lol:

If I were in office I would not give the NAACP or any Leftist dominated organization the time of day. They have done more to retard the African American community than Jim Crow or Segregation.

If you hold office though, I'm pretty sure it won't be were minorities live anyways.

 

[zimmer]

There you go. Keep using inflammatory "slave" and "plantation" language to describe african americans' mentality. It's just the thing righties need to do to win people over. :lol:

They’ve been enslaved to the Democrat Plantation, and the reaction to Kanye by the media, Blacks and Democrats has revealed so.

 

[Hatuey]

Casca's minority outreach program. [emoji38]



If you hold office though, I'm pretty sure it won't be were minorities live anyways.

Nothing makes internet racists feel better than the thought that policies enacted by other racists were not as harmful as organizations built to combat their racism.

Delusions trying to rewrite history. Slavery wasn't that bad, slaves had the choice to take on state governments, the federal government pre-1860s, and slavery is just like having a ****ty job.

That's the takeaway from Kanye's token supporters.

Sent from a memo written by Nunes and edited by Trump.