Justin Trudeau: ‘The World Is In Crisis, And Things Are About To Get Much Worse’

[Fletch]

Psst... The Liberal Party of Canada, of which Trudeau is the leader, is considered center-right. You guys have far too twisted a perspective on what constitutes "Leftist" in America to be of any use in political discussions outside your own country. Not a diss, just trying to help you out. hehe... If you want to do your usual shitting on of the left, you'll have to aim your asshole at the NDP.

In the meantime, the world is in the grip of a pandemic, with all that implies, societally and economically. I'd say he was more accurate than not.

Ah, my stalker is here.

 

[COTO]

If the world is indeed in crisis, I could only wish that leaders would react by not creating new crises.

Debt crises. Food crises. National unity crises. Cultural crises.

Just... a thought, Mr. Prime Minister.

 

[COTO]

Psst... The Liberal Party of Canada, of which Trudeau is the leader, is considered center-right.

Pfft. Center-left at best.

Where I agree with you is that center-left in Canada is considered "far-out unelectable lunatic left" in the US. Although that's changing too.

 

[OlNate]

Pfft. Center-left at best.

Where I agree with you is that center-left in Canada is considered "far-out unelectable lunatic left" in the US. Although that's changing too.

lol...please. Just because Canadian conservatives have decided to go full "alt-right" Trumpist wannabe donut, doesn't mean the location of the center has changed. Take it easy over there.... lol

But, yeah, as bad as our fringe is getting (both left and right) we're still far less of a spread than what you see in the states.

Out of curiosity, where does a nasty Canadian conservative (tee hee) put the Green Party on the scale? I always have a hard time figuring that one out...

 

[OlNate]

Ah, my stalker is here.

Aww...hurt feelings? New thread, little man. You posted this yesterday, not a month ago. Care to discuss, or you just gonna scurry? I promise, I'll do a better job of saying goodbye than you did....

 

[COTO]

Just because Canadian conservatives have decided to go full "alt-right" Trumpist wannabe donut, doesn't mean the location of the center has changed.

Define "full 'alt-right' Trumpist wannabe donut". Can you give some specific examples.

Also, you misspelled "doughnut". Traitor.

Out of curiosity, where does a nasty Canadian conservative (tee hee) put the Green Party on the scale? I always have a hard time figuring that one out...

The Greens are a single-issue party. I honestly couldn't tell you where they stand on all the other issues. My guess is somewhere between the Liberals and the NDP.

 

[Surrealistik]

The Greens are a single-issue party. I honestly couldn't tell you where they stand on all the other issues. My guess is somewhere between the Liberals and the NDP.

The Greens are far from a single issue party, even if the environment is their most important single issue; honestly they have so much in common with the NDP it's almost a wonder they haven't merged, save for concerns about that leading issue being possibly pushed aside in such an event.

 

[Surrealistik]

But, yeah, as bad as our fringe is getting (both left and right) we're still far less of a spread than what you see in the states.

What left wing fringe are you talking about exactly? Not like the Communist Party is doing gangbusters, or is anywhere close to it.

 

[bongsaway]

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Why is everything political to you? Is that what happens when one has no common sense left?

 

[OlNate]

Define "full 'alt-right' Trumpist wannabe donut". Can you give some specific examples.

Also, you misspelled "doughnut". Traitor.


The Greens are a single-issue party. I honestly couldn't tell you where they stand on all the other issues. My guess is somewhere between the Liberals and the NDP.

First of all, my deepest apologies for the spelling error. I'm both ashamed and mortified. I'm gonna go ahead and blame too much time spent with our American friends here.... Thanks for the catch...

As for who they are... Canada has at least two kinds of conservatives now. The kind we've always had - fiscal conservatives, methodical conservatives, pro business, enablement over entitlement conservatives. That used to describe me (on many levels it still does), and thoroughly describes my family. Then there's the new kind....the social Conservative. The ones that read The Rebel. The ones that hate the Muslims. The ones that belong to the "Proud" groups, who's political discourse prowess tops out at "Trudeau is a fag" memes. The Wexit Conservatives. The Canadian Conservatives that drive around with Trump bumper stickers. I may have committed linguistic treason with my donut / doughnut gaffe, but they commit cultural treason. I don't claim them as fellow Canadians...they shit on everything being Canadian is.

 

[OlNate]

What left wing fringe are you talking about exactly? Not like the Communist Party is doing gangbusters, or is anywhere close to it.

I'm talking more about citizens rather than parties. Some NDP supporters are as obnoxious as the far right doughnuts we have to endure.

 

[Surrealistik]

I'm talking more about citizens rather than parties. Some NDP supporters are as obnoxious as the far right doughnuts we have to endure.

What about the insufferable Trudeau apologists who will make any and every excuse for his corruption, no matter how absurd or tenuous? Not like our political 'centre' doesn't have its share of assholes.

 

[ASHES]

It's no different here than the US, everybody has assholes.

 

[OlNate]

What about the insufferable Trudeau apologists who will make any and every excuse for his corruption, no matter how absurd or tenuous? Not like our political 'centre' doesn't have its share of assholes.

I haven't met many of those... Most Trudeau supporters are doing so in lieu of any better option. But, of course, we've discussed that.

 

[Surrealistik]

I haven't met many of those... Most Trudeau supporters are doing so in lieu of any better option. But, of course, we've discussed that.

I mean we have one on this very board (I'm sure you can guess who; no, it's not you).

And in my experience they've certainly been more common than NDP assholes (though not as common as Conservative ones). Also, you can still support Trudeau as the 'least bad' option (though I vehemently disagree that he is; still have yet to see actual reasons why Singh is bad/worse) without making bullshit excuses for him.

 

[OlNate]

I mean we have one on this very board (I'm sure you can guess who; no, it's not you).

And in my experience they've certainly been more common than NDP assholes (though not as common as Conservative ones). Also, you can still support Trudeau as the 'least bad' option (though I vehemently disagree that he is; still have yet to see actual reasons why Singh is bad/worse) without making bullshit excuses for him.

lol...actually, I don't think I do know who it is... But would be interested - hit me up in DM if you feel like gossiping...hehe...

Singh, personally, isn't better or worse... I think it's important to remember that in Canada we are more party oriented than leader oriented. Cult of personality is more an away thing.

And, of course, we probably view "asshole" differently, given our admitted political motivations at this point. I generally fall back on my usual thoughts on this one - every demographic has their share of angels and assholes.

 

[COTO]

First of all, my deepest apologies for the spelling error. I'm both ashamed and mortified. I'm gonna go ahead and blame too much time spent with our American friends here.... Thanks for the catch...

We'll let it slide since it's a first offense.

Er... offence. Offence.

As for who they are... Canada has at least two kinds of conservatives now. The kind we've always had - fiscal conservatives, methodical conservatives, pro business, enablement over entitlement conservatives. That used to describe me (on many levels it still does), and thoroughly describes my family. Then there's the new kind....the social Conservative. The ones that read The Rebel. The ones that hate the Muslims.

You realize that a lot people, both left and right, "hate the Muslims". French President Emmanuel Macron--hardly a right-leaning figure--came out with a harsh critique of French Muslims just this past week, faced with a surging non-assimilated Islamic population in France. He's talking about people with no interest in Western secularism, no interest in cultural assimilation, and often no interest in following local or national laws.

On the message board I used to post on, the staunchest criticism of Islam was an older, hard-left-leaning woman in rural Quebec. She lived in close proximity to various lawless (i.e. governed by Islamic rather than Canadian law) communities that have burgeoned in recent years. She wasn't a fan of P.M. Harper, but her contempt for P.M. Trudeau was palpable. She saw his immigration and asylum policies as the political equivalent of AIDS--freely providing the means for every dangerous belief and unassimilated culture to flood into Quebec.

Furthermore, she argued persuasively that individuals in these enclaves had no interest at all in holding down employment, or even learning to speak English. They were, however, willing to collect cheques from the government to support families as large as 6-7 children. It's becoming a serious problem, and not one you should dismiss.

The ones that belong to the "Proud" groups, who's political discourse prowess tops out at "Trudeau is a fag" memes.

I've never seen either. And I defy you to name one Conservative politician that's engaged in either.

The Wexit Conservatives.

"Wexit" is nothing to be ashamed of. It's an extreme reaction, and I don't endorse it on the basis that I value the Canadian union, but I absolutely understand the sentiment driving it. Albertans in particular are tired of being shafted by every national program, every transfer payment to Quebec, every stalled or cancelled pipeline deal, every carbon tax, every deeply unpopular ban, and every foolish, destructive and immoral policy tolerated in Eastern Canada being imposed nationally.

I wouldn't dare debate a "Wexit Conservative" and take the position that the prairies aren't getting screwed and being taxed without effective representation--because I'd lose.

The Canadian Conservatives that drive around with Trump bumper stickers. I may have committed linguistic treason with my donut / doughnut gaffe, but they commit cultural treason. I don't claim them as fellow Canadians...they shit on everything being Canadian is.

I always thought that Canadians were moderate and celebrated a diversity of opinion. A Canadian would never, for example, disavow his countrymen for expressing support for a U.S. President in a debate or with a bumper sticker. Or so I thought.

What would you say of somebody who claimed "Ol' Nate isn't a Canadian because he has an 'Obama' bumper sticker on his truck", or "Ol' Nate isn't a Canadian because he supports Chinese Chairman Xi Jinping"? And yet here you are disavowing your countrymen based on the same radical tack towards thoughtcrime.

 

[COTO]

The Greens are far from a single issue party, even if the environment is their most important single issue; honestly they have so much in common with the NDP it's almost a wonder they haven't merged, save for concerns about that leading issue being possibly pushed aside in such an event.

I'll take your word for it.

Let's just say: from a "PR perspective", they're a single-issue party. Political ads for the greens make it abundantly clear what their position is on environmental issues, that a vote for Green is a vote for the environment, and that voting Green means "sustainable jobs" (whatever that means) and a "sustainable future" (ditto). But ask a random Canadian on the street what the Green Party position on, say, policing or the national space program, they're not going to have a clue where the party stands.

 

[Surrealistik]

I'll take your word for it.

Let's just say: from a "PR perspective", they're a single-issue party. Political ads for the greens make it abundantly clear what their position is on environmental issues, that a vote for Green is a vote for the environment, and that voting Green means "sustainable jobs" (whatever that means) and a "sustainable future" (ditto). But ask a random Canadian on the street what the Green Party position on, say, policing or the national space program, they're not going to have a clue where the party stands.

I don't disagree; much like the NDP, they lack the resources needed to elevate and clarify themselves in the public consciousness.

 

[OlNate]

We'll let it slide since it's a first offense.

Er... offence. Offence.

lol... I'm glad we're opening lightly in this discussion... Saves me from getting all triggered and embarrassing myself. I'm enjoying our chat, Coto. Gonna snip so I've got room to reply...

First, I want to remind you that I opened with acknowledging two types of Canadian conservative. If what I'm describing doesn't sound like you, it's not about you, so please, assign yourself wherever you like, and do so with my promise to take it at face value. I'm speaking in general here, I don't know you well enough to accuse you of anything.

Macron has been recently described as ruling from the right, but I hear what you're saying. For me, though, there is a difference between scrutiny and fear mongering - there is valid criticism of specific practices or incidents, and then there is scapegoating and villainizing. Creating political hay out of something so silly as burqas, for example, is exploiting and pandering to racism for political gain, and I can't get behind that. Attempting to do this was one of the nails in Harper's coffin - hiring that Aussie was a big mistake for the CPC.

When I speak about some of the grosser aspects of Canadian conservatism, I'm talking mainly about the segment of supporters that I called out. I won't discuss individual Conservative politicians in this conversation because, honestly, I'm too lazy at the moment to dig through the internet to provide links, but even with that said I'm good to agree that the majority of CPC politicians aren't who I'm talking about with that comment. But, since you defied me, I'll have a look for those examples when it's not Saturday night...

"Wexit" is a tantrum, nothing more. Were they to succeed, they would immediately destroy their economy. I can have sympathy for their situation, and I do...but the idea that they're just going to bounce is ludicrous.

LOL... So, you should know that I'm reading what you wrote as I'm writing this, deleting your points as I respond to them. Your next bit here received a snort, not gonna lie. Canadians are those things, but there has always been a sense of propriety in Canada...it's why we're known to be uniformly polite. There would never be any widespread tolerance of support for someone as boorish as Donald Trump. My grandmother is 92 years old, never had a drink or a smoke, diehard Christian Conservative all her life - she's legally blind and uses a walker, and still managed to get out and vote for Doug Ford...you should hear what she has to say about Canadian Trump supporters... Nah, bud, we're tolerant of a lot of things, most things, but there always has been and always will be a line...at least, I hope so, it's kinda what makes us us. I mean, damn, I was okay with Obama, but even if I adored the guy, I wouldn't have his bumper sticker on my car...lmao.... I wouldn't even put our own politicians on my bumper. It's so...unCanadian... lol And you know I'm right...

I guess I'll finish off by musing that it is unfortunate that what used to be known as Progressive Conservatives don't really have representation anymore in this country. I used to be one, and while I feel that the world has changed to where my priorities have changed, I can still respect elements of their approach. I think the CPC hastened their own obsolescence when they took on social conservatism. It's not a good look on us, and I honestly hope that the Progressive part of Canadian conservatism returns. What's happening in America can happen up here, if we're not careful - and that's a warning to all sides.

 

[Lovebug]

Justin Trudeau: ‘The World Is In Crisis, And Things Are About To Get Much Worse’


I'm afraid he's right. What do you think?

No kiddin, Einstein (referring to Trudeau). Where have you been?

 

[COTO]

lol... I'm glad we're opening lightly in this discussion... Saves me from getting all triggered and embarrassing myself. I'm enjoying our chat, Coto. Gonna snip so I've got room to reply...

First, I want to remind you that I opened with acknowledging two types of Canadian conservative. If what I'm describing doesn't sound like you, it's not about you, so please, assign yourself wherever you like, and do so with my promise to take it at face value. I'm speaking in general here, I don't know you well enough to accuse you of anything.

Macron has been recently described as ruling from the right, but I hear what you're saying. For me, though, there is a difference between scrutiny and fear mongering - there is valid criticism of specific practices or incidents, and then there is scapegoating and villainizing. Creating political hay out of something so silly as burqas, for example, is exploiting and pandering to racism for political gain, and I can't get behind that. Attempting to do this was one of the nails in Harper's coffin - hiring that Aussie was a big mistake for the CPC.

Resistance to burkas, the hijab, the niqab, etc. is by no means exclusive to conservatives. All these garments have been and are considered to be offensive to a secular society and have been banned in various places in defense of secularism.

But, since you defied me, I'll have a look for those examples when it's not Saturday night...

No worries. If you have the time. If you don't, I understand.

"Wexit" is a tantrum, nothing more. Were they to succeed, they would immediately destroy their economy. I can have sympathy for their situation, and I do...but the idea that they're just going to bounce is ludicrous.

It's the old "car crash versus cancer" dilemma. Wexit is the car crash.

Nah, bud, we're tolerant of a lot of things, most things, but there always has been and always will be a line...at least, I hope so, it's kinda what makes us us. I mean, damn, I was okay with Obama, but even if I adored the guy, I wouldn't have his bumper sticker on my car...lmao.... I wouldn't even put our own politicians on my bumper. It's so...unCanadian... lol And you know I'm right...

We're not talking about tolerating Pres. Trump, though. We're talking about disavowing our countrymen because they support Pres. Trump--for whatever reason.

This is an extreme position, a dangerous position, and I'm going to have to disagree with you: it's un-Canadian.

I guess I'll finish off by musing that it is unfortunate that what used to be known as Progressive Conservatives don't really have representation anymore in this country. I used to be one, and while I feel that the world has changed to where my priorities have changed, I can still respect elements of their approach. I think the CPC hastened their own obsolescence when they took on social conservatism. It's not a good look on us, and I honestly hope that the Progressive part of Canadian conservatism returns. What's happening in America can happen up here, if we're not careful - and that's a warning to all sides.

If it's any consolation, the CPC is much too far left for me to support them. In fact, I find them barely distinguishable from the Liberals.