Justices, Seeking Compromise, Return Contraception Case to Lower Courts

[Deuce]

Do you know what "mandate" means? As in, "mandatory"?

You can argue semantics all you like, but the choice is "get insurance" or "pay a tax penalty." You can do either. You're not going to jail, there's nothing going on your record, you just pay more taxes. I know folks like you think it's really, really unfair to make all the freeloaders chip in a bit, but that's the situation.

 

[apdst]

You can argue semantics all you like, but the choice is "get insurance" or "pay a tax penalty." You can do either. You're not going to jail, there's nothing going on your record, you just pay more taxes. I know folks like you think it's really, really unfair to make all the freeloaders chip in a bit, but that's the situation.

Don't ever pay the tax and see I f you don't go to jail...lol. Are you saying that tax evasion is legal, now?

 

[Dittohead not!]

You bet. When a guy is 75, every bone and muscle hurts. The longer you sit, the more it hurts.

You hear constant ringing in your head.

Every 15 minutes is pee pee time. Every 4 hours is nap time.

And, as he is listening to all that legal mambo jumbo going on for what seems forever, he is thinking about his house on the beach in Florida, and how few years he has left to enjoy it with his grandkids.

Then, just to be done, they give us Roe.

Gosh, I've only got two more good years then. Better make the most of them.

 

[Dittohead not!]

If you're uninsured, and wind up in the emergency room, the taxpayers and/or insurance ratepayers pay the tab.
So, now if you're uninsured, you pay a tax to defray the costs of the uninsured.

Socialism! Communism! Slavery! How dare they say I have to pay! I have every right to remain a freeloader, after all. Next, I'll have to start paying taxes to pay for the roads I want to use for free.

 

[joG]

Supreme Court should not be a retirement nursing home. 65 and out.

Naw. No younger than 60.

 

[Deuce]

Don't ever pay the tax and see I f you don't go to jail...lol. Are you saying that tax evasion is legal, now?

Gee, if you add a crime to the scenario, suddenly it's a crime. Wow, apdst, this is a tremendous point you've made and we're all stunned by your brilliance. You managed to translate "pay a tax penalty" into "don't pay taxes" That's ****ing impressive, my friend.

Fun fact: the ACA specifically prohibits the IRS from imposing liens, fines, or criminal charges for someone's failure to pay the ACA's tax penalty. What, Fox News didn't tell you that part?

 

[apdst]

Gee, if you add a crime to the scenario, suddenly it's a crime. Wow, apdst, this is a tremendous point you've made and we're all stunned by your brilliance. You managed to translate "pay a tax penalty" into "don't pay taxes" That's ****ing impressive, my friend.

Fun fact: the ACA specifically prohibits the IRS from imposing liens, fines, or criminal charges for someone's failure to pay the ACA's tax penalty. What, Fox News didn't tell you that part?

There's no way for the government to force you to pay your Obamacare fine?

 

[danarhea]

There's no way for the government to force you to pay your Obamacare fine?

If you make under a certain amount, you don't get the fine. However, if you make over a certain amount, you do get the fine. To be honest, as much as I am for putting America with the rest of the civilized world on health care, Obamacare doesn't cut it. Obama pandered to Republicans and Republicans pandered to Obama to get this monstrosity passed. Is it any wonder that nobody likes it?

 

[apdst]

If you make under a certain amount, you don't get the fine. However, if you make over a certain amount, you do get the fine. To be honest, as much as I am for putting America with the rest of the civilized world on health care, Obamacare doesn't cut it. Obama pandered to Republicans and Republicans pandered to Obama to get this monstrosity passed. Is it any wonder that nobody likes it?

I still maintain that Obamacare was descigned to fail, creating a national crisis that would force the government to take over the healthcare system.

 

[danarhea]

I still maintain that Obamacare was descigned to fail, creating a national crisis that would force the government to take over the healthcare system.

Obama was a compromise forged by Obama and joined by several Republicans in the Senate. Obama got the Republicans to sign on by using the same plan Romney used in Massachusetts. As a result, Conservatives hate it, and Liberals hate it too.

 

[Deuce]

There's no way for the government to force you to pay your Obamacare fine?

They'll take that penalty out of future tax refunds. That's all they can do.

 

[apdst]

They'll take that penalty out of future tax refunds. That's all they can do.

Yeah, I found that out. Thanks for the follow up.

That means they're going to get their money. Sounds like a mandatory, to me.

 

[apdst]

Obama was a compromise forged by Obama and joined by several Republicans in the Senate. Obama got the Republicans to sign on by using the same plan Romney used in Massachusetts. As a result, Conservatives hate it, and Liberals hate it too.

There were Republicans that voted for Obamacare? I don't think any did. This is an all Democrat law. Everything ****ed up about it can be laid at the doorstep of the Democrat party.

 

[danarhea]

There were Republicans that voted for Obamacare? I don't think any did. This is an all Democrat law. Everything ****ed up about it can be laid at the doorstep of the Democrat party.

It was a Democratic Senate at the time, but they needed several key Republican votes in order to break the filibuster, which they did.

 

[Thrilla]

Another day, another 4-4- deadlock in the Supreme Court. This time, instead of making a decision, they punted the ball back to the lower courts, in an attempt to avoid yet another deadlock.

This case involves an employer not wanting to even sign a paper stating that contraception violates their religion, because signing the paper saying that contraception violates their religion violates their religion. How freaking convoluted is that bit of pretzel logic?

Now that Scalia has been dead a while, I feel free to state that Scalia's death is a good thing for America. Scalia was not only an extremist ideologue, but at the time of his death, he was taking a vacation paid for by a man who had a case before the Supreme Court. That, of course, gives an appearance of taking a bribe, even if he didn't take one. Not too smart. Legislators have gone to prison for doing the exact same thing. And, had he still been alive, he would have been free to continue waging his "culture war" for the Republican Party, which he was a shill for. Good riddance.

Article is here.

well, beyond the conspiracy theory of Scalia and poindexter... i'm not sure what you want to discuss here.

yes, the case was kicked back to lower court so they could find a compromise.....what's there to discuss?

I don't know if scalia death is good or bad... but i do know it's very good to have an ideological diverse bench in play, rather than a simple ideological rubber stamp high court.....but meh, that's an old school principle of mine.

 

[Thrilla]

It was a Democratic Senate at the time, but they needed several key Republican votes in order to break the filibuster, which they did.

nope... the cloture vote was 60-39.... no Republicans voted in favor of cloture...Democrats and independents got it done without a single Republican.

U.S. Senate: Roll Call Vote

to a smaller point, there never was a filibuster on the matter... Harry Reid invoked a cloture vote without a filibuster actually occurring, something he was quite fond of doing.

 

[Thrilla]

Obama was a compromise forged by Obama and joined by several Republicans in the Senate. Obama got the Republicans to sign on by using the same plan Romney used in Massachusetts. As a result, Conservatives hate it, and Liberals hate it too.

incorrect, there was no compromise on Obamacare with Senate Republicans.... the only compromise was with Democrats (when they killed off single payer)

 

[apdst]

It was a Democratic Senate at the time, but they needed several key Republican votes in order to break the filibuster, which they did.

I'm not aware that any Republicans voted for Obamacare. The Democrats had enough votes without any Republicans.

 

[domer76]

Do you know what "mandate" means? As in, "mandatory"?

A mandate is different than mandatory. One more time. You do not HAVE to purchase the insurance. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend.

 

[apdst]

A mandate is different than mandatory. One more time. You do not HAVE to purchase the insurance. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend.

You don't have to buy liability insurance for your car, either, but there's a penalty for not doing so.

 

[Deuce]

Yeah, I found that out. Thanks for the follow up.

That means they're going to get their money. Sounds like a mandatory, to me.

I get a tax break for having children, you could say because I don't have children I am taxed more. This doesn't make children "mandatory." I have a choice.

But like I said, this is arguing over semantics and I don't see the importance. I think under our current system, people who can afford insurance but choose not to purchase it should be made to chip into the pot. Otherwise they inevitably get sick and end up dumping the cost onto the rest of us. This way, the would-be freeloaders at least have some skin in the game.

 

[Deuce]

I'm not aware that any Republicans voted for Obamacare. The Democrats had enough votes without any Republicans.

Right, they just added dozens of amendments, including the one I told you about wherein you couldn't be arrested for failing to pay the tax penalty. A detail you thought was highly significant, and it turns out you had it wrong.

Additionally, during the bill's development Republicans brought up that "if Obamacare is so good why doesn't Congress have to use it?" silliness. Democrats responded "hey, you're right" and required Congress to purchase insurance through the exchange.

And somehow that never stopped right-wingers from, to this day, claiming that Congress is exempt from the ACA when they are explicitly the opposite.

Doesn't it make you wonder how many other details you have wrong? You don't need to answer here, but a self-assessment question: how long did you believe "death panels" were a thing?

 

[domer76]

You don't have to buy liability insurance for your car, either, but there's a penalty for not doing so.

That's right. You don't have to drive the speed limit either, but you pay the penalty if you get caught.

So, your point is......?

 

[danarhea]

nope... the cloture vote was 60-39.... no Republicans voted in favor of cloture...Democrats and independents got it done without a single Republican.

U.S. Senate: Roll Call Vote

to a smaller point, there never was a filibuster on the matter... Harry Reid invoked a cloture vote without a filibuster actually occurring, something he was quite fond of doing.

Oops, you are right on that. I was thinking of the vote to continue Obamacare in 2013. 25 Republicans voted for for cloture on that bill, then Reid stripped out the part which defunded Obamacare, and it passed on a simple majority after that.

 

[apdst]

That's right. You don't have to drive the speed limit either, but you pay the penalty if you get caught.

So, your point is......?

The point is, there's also a penalty for not meeting the Obamacare mandate.