Just when you thought the world could not be more sick...

[faithful_servant]

File this entirely in the "no hope for humanity" folder.

Sometimes these horrific crimes make you question what is justice, what is recovery for the victim, etc. Very upsetting.

It's not like this something new. My wife's exes great grandfather was one of the last of the "bad Indians" (some say he was the last, but that's pretty questionable). He kidnapped and forced multiple women from settlements to be his "wives" and then raped his own daughters. While horrific in the extreme, don't think that his kind of thing is something new... Humanity has always had these kind of foul creatures lurking around...

 

[Dittohead not!]

Produce one of these 'spirits' or 'demons', or any evidence for them, and we have something to talk about.

Evidence?
Raping a young girl for years, then raping the daughter resulting from the rape.
Abusing children, sometimes to the point of murder.
Locking a family in their house, then setting fire to it.
Torture.

Either the above is the result of demons or evil spirits of some sort, or the mind of man is capable of total, unmitigated evil. It could be either one. As I said before, I really don't know.

 

[Chagos]

...................These kind of crimes disgust me, but what disgust me even more is when progressives gives these horrible people a few years in luxury prison.

Well, that sure says a lot for your list of priorities.

 

[Camlon]

Well, that sure says a lot for your list of priorities.

Yes, I blame the enablers instead of just blame bad people who will always exist.

Also, if there is anyone who should look at their priorities then thats you, for instance in a thread about a 7 year old girl who got raped, you started to make jokes.

 

[Chagos]

Yes, I blame the enablers instead of just blame bad people who will always exist.

Even where this is totally non-sensical, what you actually SAID was

These kind of crimes disgust me, but what disgust me even more is when progressives gives these horrible people a few years in luxury prison.

....and unless you want to state that the obvious meaning (to anyone with reading capacity) was not your intention, that sentence shows an appalling prioritizing.

Also, if there is anyone who should look at their priorities then thats you, for instance in a thread about a 7 year old girl who got raped, you started to make jokes.

Show me where. Quote it so that others may read. Also show context. Show how I was making jokes about a raped 7 year old.

Quite apart from that being straw man, tu quoque and what have you, show it.

 

[Camlon]

Even where this is totally non-sensical, what you actually SAID was ....and unless you want to state that the obvious meaning (to anyone with reading capacity) was not your intention, that sentence shows an appalling prioritizing.

Its not appealing to blame the enablers. They are the ones allowing these people to rape people.

Show me where. Quote it so that others may read. Also show context. Show how I was making jokes about a raped 7 year old.
Quite apart from that being straw man, tu quoque and what have you, show it.

I don't make things up, you did make a joke in a thread about a 7 year old who got gang raped. And not a single time did you show any remorse for the victim, but instead claimed that the incident might be fictional.

Your first post was sarcastic, the second was a joke, that is truly appalling.

An age old (and thus somewhat "faeded") joke in Germany is:

what lies on the floor inside the front door letter slit and lies on the floor inside the front door letter slit?

Seven year old girl gang raped

 

[Chagos]

Its not appealing to blame the enablers. They are the ones allowing these people to rape people.



I don't make things up, you did make a joke in a thread about a 7 year old who got gang raped. And not a single time did you show any remorse for the victim, but instead claimed that the incident might be fictional.

Your first post was sarcastic, the second was a joke, that is truly appalling.


Seven year old girl gang raped

OK, THIS was your statement

Also, if there is anyone who should look at their priorities then thats you, for instance in a thread about a 7 year old girl who got raped, you started to make jokes.

upon which I challenged you to back up your implication by

Show how I was making jokes about a raped 7 year old.

and now you come back with the same claim.

If you had any comprehensive powers, you'd have noticed that I was questioning the source from the very start and provided a pretty good case for doing so (because I KNOW IT WELL).

Now you can stick with your absolutely ridiculous and lying insinuation but then don't ever whine anywhere here in future when you meet me again.

Good day.

P.S. what you stated in your post that initiated this exchange is absolutely disgusting and remains so.

 

[Camlon]

OK, THIS was your statement upon which I challenged you to back up your implication by and now you come back with the same claim.

If you had any comprehensive powers, you'd have noticed that I was questioning the source from the very start and provided a pretty good case for doing so (because I KNOW IT WELL).

Now you can stick with your absolutely ridiculous and lying insinuation but then don't ever whine anywhere here in future when you meet me again.

Good day.

P.S. what you stated in your post that initiated this exchange is absolutely disgusting and remains so.

You are trying to set up a strawman, I never said you made fun of the 7 year old, I just said you made a joke in a rape thread. You also made a sarcastic comment, and claimed the incident may naver happened. Not a single time did you show any remorse for the victim, doesn't sound like you got very disgusted of the incident. This is a fact, everyone who click on the link can see that.

I wouldn't have brought this up, if you hadn't tried to claim that I don't care about rape victims, because I get more disgusted by the people who enable this type of crime. There will always be bad people, but how we as a society deal with bad people matters a lot.

 

[Chagos]

You are trying to set up a strawman, I never said you made fun of the 7 year old, I just said you made a joke in a rape thread. You also made a sarcastic comment, and claimed the incident may naver happened. Not a single time did you show any remorse for the victim, doesn't sound like you got very disgusted of the incident. This is a fact, everyone who click on the link can see that.

I wouldn't have brought this up, if you hadn't tried to claim that I don't care about rape victims, because I get more disgusted by the people who enable this type of crime. There will always be bad people, but how we as a society deal with bad people matters a lot.

Your reading comprehension wrt to that thread really deserves questioning or you'd ask yourself how I could have shown remorse at a crime that I seriously doubted as having happened. Which anyone with comprehension better than you appear to show had gathered.

Anycase, that thread is not the subject here and you having brought it up, even if you understood nothing there, is the thing that REALLY constitutes straw-manning.

Setting up the strawman in what seems to be your habitual gish-galloping manner was done by YOU. Clearly you saw no other exit and clearly you still don't.

I claimed nothing wrt to what you care about more, you expressly stated it yourself. And it remains, no matter how you try to wiggle and no matter what dishonesty you attempt to use in the process, that the leniency of prison conditions, real or imagined, disgusts you more than prolonged rape of first the original victim and then the child.

If you had the guts to take that back and explain how you expressed yourself badly, something that anyone acquainted with the somewhat erratic way in which you generally formulate would probably buy, you'd not be in the deep doo-doo you're in now.

But no, you had to resort to non-sequitur, strawman and an ad-hominem and base it all, however dishonestly, on a matter totally unrelated and, to boot, show your comprehension deficits of even that in the process.

All because, as clearly shown by your conduct in this matter, you appear not to be man enough to own your mistakes.

The way you continue digging now you'll be emerging at the opposite antipode pretty soon.

I'll not be continuing this since it's totally OT wrt this thread and the fact that this silly development occurred by your initiative is no reason to encourage your behavior any further.

 

[Camlon]

I claimed nothing wrt to what you care about more, you expressly stated it yourself. And it remains, no matter how you try to wiggle and no matter what dishonesty you attempt to use in the process, that the leniency of prison conditions, real or imagined, disgusts you more than prolonged rape of first the original victim and then the child.

If you had the guts to take that back and explain how you expressed yourself badly, something that anyone acquainted with the somewhat erratic way in which you generally formulate would probably buy, you'd not be in the deep doo-doo you're in now.

Why would I take something back that I believe in, I get more disgusted by people who enable crime, than the people who just do it. Thats because bad people will always exist, what matters is how we as a society deal with crime. You probably think the same about tax evasion, and tax laws.

I don't think just about that one victim, but also about all the other victims who may get hurt if we don't deal with crime. How about you respect that people have different values than you?

But no, you had to resort to non-sequitur, strawman and an ad-hominem and base it all, however dishonestly, on a matter totally unrelated and, to boot, show your comprehension deficits of even that in the process.

All because, as clearly shown by your conduct in this matter, you appear not to be man enough to own your mistakes.

You are the one trying to wiggle yourself out of trouble. Lets go through this step by step

1. Was the thread about a 7 year old who got gang raped? Yes or no.
2. Was your first post sarcastic? Yes or no
3. Did you make a joke in your second post? Yes or no.
4. Did you claim the incident may be fictional in your third post? Yes or no.

You are only claiming I lied about you, because you don't want to admit to your mistakes. Everyone who check the link can see that you are lying. So why not admit it? And that you thought the incident may be false do not excuse your behaviour, you were not certain and you had no evidence to back up your accusation. To claim that a rape incident is fictional without evidence is disgusting. What if it is real, and her or some of her family is reading your post, you think they will be happy?

Seven Year Old Girl Gang Raped

 

[JayDubya]

And the anti-choicers are all thinking "Thank God she didn't abort that child"

Stay trashy, sangha. Wow.

 

[Chagos]

Why would I take something back that I believe in, I get more disgusted by people who enable crime, than the people who just do it. Thats because bad people will always exist, what matters is how we as a society deal with crime. You probably think the same about tax evasion, and tax laws.

I don't think just about that one victim, but also about all the other victims who may get hurt if we don't deal with crime. How about you respect that people have different values than you?


You are the one trying to wiggle yourself out of trouble. Lets go through this step by step

1. Was the thread about a 7 year old who got gang raped? Yes or no.
2. Was your first post sarcastic? Yes or no
3. Did you make a joke in your second post? Yes or no.
4. Did you claim the incident may be fictional in your third post? Yes or no.

You are only claiming I lied about you, because you don't want to admit to your mistakes. Everyone who check the link can see that you are lying. So why not admit it? And that you thought the incident may be false do not excuse your behaviour, you were not certain and you had no evidence to back up your accusation. To claim that a rape incident is fictional without evidence is disgusting. What if it is real, and her or some of her family is reading your post, you think they will be happy?

Seven Year Old Girl Gang Raped

Where it does get tiring to repeatedly have to ask you to go back and read, I'll help you out just this one more time

......................I'll not be continuing this since it's totally OT wrt this thread and the fact that this silly development occurred by your initiative is no reason to encourage your behavior any further.

I'd strongly suggest that you tear a leaf from that particular book, seeing how this derailment here has, IMO, to stop.

 

[Camlon]

I thought you were not going to continue answering? I think this might be your fifth time in a few days. But you always come back eventually.

Also, your logic makes no sense. Just because you want to stop doesn't mean you can require me to stop. You don't always have to get the last word.

 

[jet57]

The crime debate is not based on religion, before muslims became a big issue there were still many complaints of luxury prisons and low punishments for rape.

These kind of crimes disgust me, but what disgust me even more is when progressives gives these horrible people a few years in luxury prison.

Name the luxury prisons and the luxurious amenities.

I guess then you won't mind spending a few weeks in such a luxurious setting with such a professional and helpful fellow guests and staff.

 

[Camlon]

Name the luxury prisons and the luxurious amenities.

I guess then you won't mind spending a few weeks in such a luxurious setting with such a professional and helpful fellow guests and staff.

It depends on the country. I don't think UK has those prisons, but Scandinavia certainly do. For instance search for "prison scandinavia luxury" and you will get plenty of examples. What is more hidden is the widespread usage of open prison, which looks more basic, but feels like a summer cottage.

Actually being in a prison in Scandinavia and some other countries do not sound too terrible at all. My biggest reason to not go to prison is not the conditions, but that it would be an embarrasment and get on my police records. Disregarding that, I wouldn't mind.

Also, it is not the luxury that disgust me, but the sentence length. I know that when this rapist get 2 years in prison, then he will soon be out doing new crimes. Norway luckily got a 3 year minimum for rape, but Sweden doesn't and the result is crazy low sentences for truly disgusting people. That is contributing to their high rape rate.

 

[jet57]

It depends on the country. I don't think UK has those prisons, but Scandinavia certainly do. For instance search for "prison norway luxury" and you will get plenty of examples. What is more hidden is the widespread usage of open prison, which looks more basic, but feels like a summer cottage.

Actually being in a prison in Scandinavia and some other countries do not sound too terrible at all. My biggest reason to not go to prison is not the conditions, but that it would be an embarrasment and get on my police records. Disregarding that, I wouldn't mind.

Also, it is not the luxury that disgust me, but the sentence length. I know that when this rapist get 2 years in prison, then he will soon be out doing new crimes. Norway luckily got a 3 year minimum for rape, but Sweden doesn't and the result is crazy low sentences for truly disgusting people. That is contributing to their high rape rate.

Well, then, we're not talking about the US. I know that reports from other countries say that the recidivism rates for prisoners that are treated as human beings and given a door to change, is extremely low. Some on the other hand are habitual and need more attention.

But this business of enablers of rape etc is just sadly misinformed.

 

[Camlon]

Well, then, we're not talking about the US. I know that reports from other countries say that the recidivism rates for prisoners that are treated as human beings and given a door to change, is extremely low. Some on the other hand are habitual and need more attention.

But this business of enablers of rape etc is just sadly misinformed.

No, I would never say US got a cozy prison system, and actually US need to head to other direction because treating prisoners like **** makes them lifelong criminals.

However, only Norway got a very low recividism, Sweden rate is not that low, and it is certainly not low among their new migrants. In addition you need to take into account the different prison systems, because a lot of the reoffenders are taken by drug crime in the US, while they would been left alone in Scandinavia.

 

[Chagos]

...............Norway luckily got a 3 year minimum for rape, but Sweden doesn't and the result is crazy low sentences for truly disgusting people. That is contributing to their high rape rate.

Do you have any data to support that (the bolded) or is it merely your opinion?

Do you know the parameters defining rape that either Norway or Sweden apply? Perhaps the difference?

and wrt

However, only Norway got a very low recividism, Sweden rate is not that low,

Same question. Both with regard to source and parameters applied. Here in statistic.

 

[Camlon]

Do you have any data to support that (the bolded) or is it merely your opinion?

Do you know the parameters defining rape that either Norway or Sweden apply? Perhaps the difference?

Well, I got plenty of examples from the media, but I think you want statistics. Shamefully they don't puiblish this statistics anymore, luckily a guy made a video where he showed screenshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRzpNBdX8ac

The result for rape was
12% got 1 year or shorter
41% got 1-2 years
44% got 2-4 years
4% got above 4 years

This is just their sentence, many get released early. This is in contrast to Norway who got a minimum sentence of 3 years. The result of these lenient punishments has been a very high rape rate in Sweden. Both Sweden and Norway has a broad definition of rape, so that cannot explain why Sweden rape rate is twice as high as Norway. Victimizations surveys from the OECD also show that Sweden is performing poorly.

and wrt Same question. Both with regard to source and parameters applied. Here in statistic.

Norway recividism rate is about 20% which is very good. Sweden however is at 40% which is nothing extraordinary. In addition, we need to take into account drug laws, because a lot of people get sent back to prison in the US for minor crimes. Taking that into account, there is no evidence that Sweden lenient punishment rehabilitate criminals.

Norway: http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/documents/Incarceration_and_Recidivism.pdf
Sweden: https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/crime-statistics/recidivism.html

 

[Chagos]

Well, I got plenty of examples from the media, but I think you want statistics. Shamefully they don't puiblish this statistics anymore, luckily a guy made a video where he showed screenshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRzpNBdX8ac

As relevancy is concerned, practically useless. It's nearly 7 years old, the website it supposedly came from no longer exists and nothing shows to credit it with being more than an opinion.

The result for rape was
12% got 1 year or shorter
41% got 1-2 years
44% got 2-4 years
4% got above 4 years

Even where one might question the figures on account of their unverifiable source, I wasn't asking about sentencing but about the claim you made

That is contributing to their high rape rate.

This is just their sentence, many get released early. This is in contrast to Norway who got a minimum sentence of 3 years. The result of these lenient punishments has been a very high rape rate in Sweden.

and for reason of this constantly repeated soundbite (repeated by people who have an agenda and get this from questionable outlets that have the same agenda) I asked whether you know not only the parameters that either or both Sweden and Norway define rape by and whether you know the difference.

Since you do not address this specific question, I'll assume that you do not know and that thus the pertinence of your "deliberations" on the matter deserves questioning.

Both Sweden and Norway has a broad definition of rape, so that cannot explain why Sweden rape rate is twice as high as Norway.

But there is an explanation and my questioning points towards it.

Victimizations surveys from the OECD also show that Sweden is performing poorly.

If you're simply going to rely on one source and then just on its figures, it won't occur to you to question the background and thus engage in more in-depth research.

Norway recividism rate is about 20% which is very good. Sweden however is at 40% which is nothing extraordinary.

Again I point you to my question(s), the pursuit of which might result in more enlightenment.

In addition, we need to take into account drug laws, because a lot of people get sent back to prison in the US for minor crimes. Taking that into account, there is no evidence that Sweden lenient punishment rehabilitate criminals.

This sentence, in whatever correlation or causality it's presumably designed to signify, makes absolutely no sense at all.

The claim itself of there being no evidence that

there is no evidence that Sweden lenient punishment rehabilitate criminals

is both false and its constructed relationship (in that sentence) with whatever happens in the US around drug use (and possession and dealing) is devoid of any logic.

Norway: http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/documents/Incarceration_and_Recidivism.pdf
Sweden: https://www.bra.se/bra/bra-in-english/home/crime-and-statistics/crime-statistics/recidivism.html

just returns all of this to my initial question(s).

 

[Chagos]

Well, at least that's settled then.

 

[Grand Mal]

Stay trashy, sangha. Wow.

Considering what I've seen posted here by you...

 

[Camlon]

Well, at least that's settled then.

What is settled?

 

[Chagos]

What is settled?

Consideration of what you claimed.

 

[Camlon]

Consideration of what you claimed.

My claims stand well and firm. I provided evidence for my arguments, you didn't provide any arguments against them. Thats good enough for me.

Sorry for not answering your questions completely, but I think those questions should rather be asked to a lawyer.