Just So You Don't Forget What Happened To America's Middle Class

[Campbell]

Total U S Debt

09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16


09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

 

[Rainman05]

One could look at the final chart and deduce that because of union membership decrease, middle class income has decreased... but one could also deduce that because of high union membership, wages decreased, the middle class decreased and hence, unions caused and still cause a decrease in the middle class.

So it can go both ways really.

 

[tererun]

One could look at the final chart and deduce that because of union membership decrease, middle class income has decreased... but one could also deduce that because of high union membership, wages decreased, the middle class decreased and hence, unions caused and still cause a decrease in the middle class.

So it can go both ways really.

One could look at 2+2 and think it equals 5, but that would not make them correct.

 

[Campbell]

One could look at the final chart and deduce that because of union membership decrease, middle class income has decreased... but one could also deduce that because of high union membership, wages decreased, the middle class decreased and hence, unions caused and still cause a decrease in the middle class.

So it can go both ways really.

LOL!!! Definitely dispatched from the Republican bubble. You know....the one which is hermetically sealed from anything except Fox News.

Ronald Reagan slashed tax rates on the upper class to pre depression rates, continued to spend like a drunken sailor, borrowed from foreign banks to cover the shortfall and by definition funneled borrowed money into the pockets of the richest people in the country.

Clinton came along, raised tax rates and balanced the budget, left projected surpluses all the way to the outyears and then along came slow walkin', slow talking George, cut tax rates twice using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition, started two unfunded wars and doubled the debt again. This **** isn't rocket science.....the facts are there.

 

[Rainman05]

LOL!!! Definitely dispatched from the Republican bubble. You know....the one which is hermetically sealed from anything except Fox News.

Ronald Reagan slashed tax rates on the upper class to pre depression rates, continued to spend like a drunken sailor, borrowed from foreign banks to cover the shortfall and by definition funneled borrowed money into the pockets of the richest people in the country.

Clinton came along, raised tax rates and balanced the budget, left projected surpluses all the way to the outyears and then along came slow walkin', slow talking George, cut tax rates twice using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition, started two unfunded wars and doubled the debt again. This **** isn't rocket science.....the facts are there.

I'm not a republican. That's one.

Secondly, if you will draw conclusions that favor your version based on a few lines drawn here and there, I am free to draw my conclusions too. And honestly, I think I'm pretty much correct. Unions served some purpose... in the early days of industrialization. But starting from the 1970's and 1980s, they are a nuissance and are hurting the economy for the most part.

Thirdly, Clinton surely came...

 

[Rainman05]

One could look at 2+2 and think it equals 5, but that would not make them correct.

Only if one would fail basic math.
You look at some indicators and draw conclusions. You can say that one variation drives another or viceversa. Without conclusive data, you may believe you're right, but you may as well be wrong and the other would be right.

Admiting you may be wrong is the first step to intellectual growth.

 

[fmw]

I can't imagine why the OP can't see the middle class. It is everywhere among us. Drive down any highway and almost every car is occupied by a member of the middle class. It is a nonsensical premise.

 

[Campbell]

I can't imagine why the OP can't see the middle class. It is everywhere among us. Drive down any highway and almost every car is occupied by a member of the middle class. It is a nonsensical premise.

My wife ands I came from the middle class.....the real middle class. With high school educations with a little vocational training on the side we worked the way old timers used to tell us to and we're retired on the lake with a monthly income from our pensions and social security of about $50,000 a year. We also have two IRA's which basically have not been depleted in any way. I liked it when unions put up a little resistance to the company's all out effort to end up with it all. I'm funny that way:

 

[Thrilla]

My wife ands I came from the middle class.....the real middle class. With high school educations with a little vocational training on the side we worked the way old timers used to tell us to and we're retired on the lake with a monthly income from our pensions and social security of about $50,000 a year. We also have two IRA's which basically have not been depleted in any way. I liked it when unions put up a little resistance to the company's all out effort to end up with it all. I'm funny that way.

so how much richer would you be if we taxed rich people more?

 

[Drake McHugh]

I find it sad that some people are comfortable letting themselves be defined by "class".

 

[YoungConserv]

I don't think this is a fair assessment as it does not take into account cost of living for example I live in the boonies of Texas and make 65k a year that's enough for me to live like a king out here but New York City or California I'd barely be getting by.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Perhaps the middle class is shrinking because we've got more losers who'd rather be on unemployment than get a freakin' job.

Get the moochers to quit mooching, and your middle class base will grow. Leave them sitting on their couches, collecting "free money," and that base shrinks just as much as their motivation for being a productive member of society.

 

[Campbell]

so how much richer would you be if we taxed rich people more?

How in the name of goodness can you attempt to justify Reagan and the Bushes cutting tax rates for the wealthy while never cutting a dime from their annual budgets? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Before 1980 this country paid it's way. During the post WW2 years rich folks paid 91% of all excess above $300,000 a year in income tax. 'Course back then a lot of them were true patriots and served in the military during all declared wars.

 

[Thrilla]

How in the name of goodness can you attempt to justify Reagan and the Bushes cutting tax rates for the wealthy while never cutting a dime from their annual budgets? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

Before 1980 this country paid it's way.

senility... this is what it looks like folks.

I said nothing of Reagan or Bush or budgets or spending.

read what i wrote, respond to it ( or don't)... but don't make **** up in your feeble mind and pass it off as my position.

 

[Occam's Razor]

One could look at the final chart and deduce that because of union membership decrease, middle class income has decreased... but one could also deduce that because of high union membership, wages decreased, the middle class decreased and hence, unions caused and still cause a decrease in the middle class.

So it can go both ways really.

7% of the private workforce are in unions... no... it only goes one way...

 

[Occam's Razor]

How in the name of goodness can you attempt to justify Reagan and the Bushes cutting tax rates for the wealthy while never cutting a dime from their annual budgets? Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?

About as stupid as this...

Cheney to treasury secretary: You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.

And...

Principle is OK up to a certain point, but principle doesn't do any good if you lose.


Here is what you're missing about the tax breaks. No one payed those high rates. Why? Because they got breaks for capital investment. That means reinvesting in the company assets and it's workforce. Yes, that made us all richer, including the rich.

 

[Campbell]

About as stupid as this...

Cheney to treasury secretary: You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.

And...

Principle is OK up to a certain point, but principle doesn't do any good if you lose.


Here is what you're missing about the tax breaks. No one payed those high rates. Why? Because they got breaks for capital investment. That means reinvesting in the company assets and it's workforce. Yes, that made us all richer, including the rich.

Bull ****!!Please note that after the Clinton years the 1% was beginning to turn toward normal and then after Bush's two tax cuts they were again off to the races.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Bull ****!!Please note that after the Clinton years the 1% was beginning to turn toward normal and then after Bush's two tax cuts they were again off to the races.

No, I'm in total agreement with you. Somewhere I thought there was the air of a question, "how could they justify this"?

Cheney clearly gave an honest, yet empty, despicable, and stupid justification for cutting taxes and not reducing revenue. Win the election, stay in power, advance the sole superpower/PAX Americana agenda.

 

[fmw]

My wife ands I came from the middle class.....the real middle class. With high school educations with a little vocational training on the side we worked the way old timers used to tell us to and we're retired on the lake with a monthly income from our pensions and social security of about $50,000 a year. We also have two IRA's which basically have not been depleted in any way. I liked it when unions put up a little resistance to the company's all out effort to end up with it all. I'm funny that way:

That's lovely except it has nothing to do with your claim that the middle class has disappeared.

 

[Campbell]

That's lovely except it has nothing to do with your claim that the middle class has disappeared.

So the after tax income of those who used to be the middle class has been essentially flat since Reagan started the "Trickle Down" bull**** doesn't influence you at all? When adjusted for inflation it's more than likely more than flat but who cares....right?

In my state the average annual income is about $46,000 a year. Many of our 95 counties that average falls to about $25,000. All this while the upper 1% have increased their wealth by nearly 300% doesn't bother you at all. Hell.....I retired in Sept. 1993 and I was making nearly $50,000. My wife was making nearly $70,000 when she retired and neither of us went to college...not a day. The selfish Republicans want all the breaks and amenities given to them for shuffling papers and watching a monitor while what used to be the middle class youngsters travel 10,000 miles to fight and die in their big money wars.

 

[fmw]

So the after tax income of those who used to be the middle class has been essentially flat since Reagan started the "Trickle Down" bull**** doesn't influence you at all? .

It doesn't mean they aren't still middle class.

 

[Campbell]

It doesn't mean they aren't still middle class.

If you use the same comparative formulas which were used when CEO's made 50 times as much as a carpenter or plumber instead of 500 times as much it does.

 

[Papa bull]

If you use the same comparative formulas which were used when CEO's made 50 times as much as a carpenter or plumber instead of 500 times as much it does.

How much CEO's make has no bearing on it.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

How much CEO's make has no bearing on it.

This thread is nothing but jealousy and wealth envy. Rational thinking has no bearing here.

 

[Campbell]

This thread is nothing but jealousy and wealth envy. Rational thinking has no bearing here.

I was pretty sure you felt that way. Keep it up.....the end is near. People are smart enough that they will not let a bunch of inept assholes get all the money. You have enough. As a matter of fact right now we should go back to the anyone who makes more than $300,000 per year pays 91% of the excess toward paying down the Reagan/Bushes debt. That's exactly how we paid for the second world war. 'Course back then the wealthy didn't just pay their fair share...they actually put on uniforms and put their lives on the line in the military. That's something the in crowd will not do now. They think they are the upper eschelon of a Lord/Serf society.