July 4th declared freedom, September 17th denied it

[Etoner]

Today we celebrate the Declaration of Independence. Its declared that all human beings are created equal, and endowed by God with certain rights that cannot be taken away. Those rights are life, liberty, and the ability to pursue personal fulfillment.

Eleven years later on September 17th, 1787, our nation VIOLATED these unalienable rights, by including in the Constitution stipulations that even if a state declared slavery to be illegal, immoral, and unjust, slaves escaping to FREE states could not become free and must be delivered to their "Master".

Let us remember this on our so-called day of "freedom".

 

[Hard Truth]

Rasmussen’s Bizarre Poll About Racism | TPMDC

The right-leaning polling firm Rasmussen Reports dove into America’s views of race on Wednesday with a bizarre survey that concluded most of the nation thinks blacks are more likely to be racist than whites.

Going deeper into the poll’s crosstabs shows that 49 percent of Republicans believe “most black Americans (are) racist,” roughly the same percentage of Democrats (47 percent) who said the opposite. A third of Republicans said most black Americans are not racist, while only 11 percent of the GOP said that most white people are racist. Fifty-eight percent of respondents identified as “very conservative” said most blacks are racist, while a plurality of 44 percent “somewhat conservative” respondents said the same.

(snip)

A study conducted by Fordham University rated Rasmussen as one of the least accurate pollsters of the 2012 election cycle.
​

From another thread

 

[cpgrad08]

Today we celebrate the Declaration of Independence. Its declared that all human beings are created equal, and endowed by God with certain rights that cannot be taken away. Those rights are life, liberty, and the ability to pursue personal fulfillment.

Eleven years later on September 17th, 1787, our nation VIOLATED these unalienable rights, by including in the Constitution stipulations that even if a state declared slavery to be illegal, immoral, and unjust, slaves escaping to FREE states could not become free and must be delivered to their "Master".

Let us remember this on our so-called day of "freedom".

And yet the decedents of those slave celebrate the Fourth of July today.

 

[rocket88]

From another thread

Right, blacks are more racist, therefore keeping them in slavery was completely justified back then.

Or is it just a non sequitur?

 

[Etoner]

People need to remember that freedom doesn't exist unless people commit and fight for it.

Declarations are meaningless if laws that follow it deny freedom. Our Constitution didn't stand up for freedom until 1865.

 

[Hard Truth]

\

Right, blacks are more racist, therefore keeping them in slavery was completely justified back then.

Or is it just a non sequitur?

Many conservatives think its unfair that blacks don't trust them. I am not a conservative.

 

[Etoner]

The promise of 1776 wasn't fulfilled till 1965.

 

[Trip]

The promise of 1776 wasn't fulfilled till 1965.

Those of you condemning the Constitution, overlook that even those white men were not free by the form of government that we were under previously, but bound in social status and subservience to those above them.

You also overlook the fact that had they included the command that all slaves shall be immediately freed, then 1) the Constitution would never have been ratified, and 2) those Founders would have created the very form of government able to dictate every aspect of men's lives, exactly what they sought to escape and preclude.

You also ignore that the 1964 Civil Rights act was the government doing just what the founders sought to prohibit: the dictation of society by a few elitists, according to their vision, not just onto government itself, but onto private individuals and private organizations. In that 1964 Civil Rights act, the self-righteous have subverted our form of government and turned the definition of rights on its head, and given the power to government to tyrannize individuals in the name or "rights". In the name of fabricated rights, each individual has been denied ownership of their very own body, and made wards of the state, bound in service to the state. In the name of a false rights dealing with a never guaranteed outcome, those elitists have advanced their gutting of the very fabric of society and promoted a false equivalence, SSM, to further their own gains, and the federal authority, and corrupt society.

Few of those have thought beyond their own short-sighted and narrow vision to recognize the wisdom of the founders in even only applying the Bill of Rights to government, and more specifically the federal government.

To no surprise, those who disregard the founders, and dismiss the Constitution, are the very ones supporting false ideals of collectivism, redistribution, forced equalization, and government dictate, in no way compatible with individual freedoms, with this nation's founders even recognizing this ideology long before Marx put pen to paper.

If ye love wealth greater than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you;
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

~Samuel Adams



​

 

[Monserrat]

Right, blacks are more racist, therefore keeping them in slavery was completely justified back then.

Or is it just a non sequitur?

Anyone who kept them in slavery is now dead so what's the point in going on about the sins of the past?

My great grandmother lost a few siblings to starvation because she was a poor immigrant to the US. Who do I get to bitch at for that?

 

[shrubnose]

From another thread

This is a good example of the fact that if you take almost anything that the GOP says and turn it 180 degrees, you'll be a lot closer to the truth.

 

[shrubnose]

Anyone who kept them in slavery is now dead so what's the point in going on about the sins of the past?

My great grandmother lost a few siblings to starvation because she was a poor immigrant to the US. Who do I get to bitch at for that?

Anyone handy.

 

[Trip]

This is a good example of the fact that if you take almost anything that the GOP says and turn it 180 degrees, you'll be a lot closer to the truth.

So most black Americans are not racist, and do not embrace ideology founded on race?

And you can say this while the Boy Scouts of America are told they must accept gays, but meanwhile the "NAACP" to make race a constant focus, and has reversed MLK's expression to judging a man by the color of his skin, but not the content of his character, and the NAACP is charging the Tea Parties with being racist for wanting to protect individual rights, and deny false collective rights that violate those individual rights, and compel involuntary servitude.

 

[rocket88]

Anyone who kept them in slavery is now dead so what's the point in going on about the sins of the past?

My great grandmother lost a few siblings to starvation because she was a poor immigrant to the US. Who do I get to bitch at for that?

Look at what the reply was to. The poster I replied to hit the OP with the "blacks are more racist" card. So the point there is what?....

 

[Master PO]

Today we celebrate the Declaration of Independence. Its declared that all human beings are created equal, and endowed by God with certain rights that cannot be taken away. Those rights are life, liberty, and the ability to pursue personal fulfillment.

Eleven years later on September 17th, 1787, our nation VIOLATED these unalienable rights, by including in the Constitution stipulations that even if a state declared slavery to be illegal, immoral, and unjust, slaves escaping to FREE states could not become free and must be delivered to their "Master".

Let us remember this on our so-called day of "freedom".

slaves were not people in that time in america, they are property.....its sad, but its true.

the 3/5 clause...are they people or are they property?

 

[Etoner]

slaves were not people in that time in america, they are property.....its sad, but its true.

the 3/5 clause...are they people or are they property?

Slaves were human beings, guaranteed by the Declaration of Independence to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Too bad the Constitution ignored all this for purposes of convenience.

 

[Master PO]

Slaves were human beings, guaranteed by the Declaration of Independence to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Too bad the Constitution ignored all this for purposes of convenience.

yes they are, but in 1776.

the constitution with its 3/5 clause, was fought over the slaves, are they property or are they people, the south stated they were people and counted has 1 for representation.

the north stated if they are people, then they cannot be slaves, the south stated they were property, a compromise was reached, slaves would be counted as 3/5 for representation purposes, NOT, because they were less of a person.

 

[Etoner]

yes they are, but in 1776.

the constitution with its 3/5 clause, was fought over the slaves, are they property or are they people, the south stated they were people and counted has 1 for representation.

the north stated if they are people, then they cannot be slaves, the south stated they were property, a compromise was reached, slaves would be counted as 3/5 for representation purposes, NOT, because they were less of a person.

You don't "compromise" on human rights and freedom.

You're either for it or you're not.

 

[Master PO]

You don't "compromise" on human rights and freedom.

You're either for it or you're not.

first there were no human rights in the world in the 1700's..human rights are a man made creation.

during 1776, 3 states wanted slavery 10 didnt, however if they would have insisted on its outlaw, the u.s. would have never existed.

the founders sought to eliminate slavery by the time of there deaths, by outlawing the importation of slaves by 1808.

by the way, you cant look at america in 1787, though 21013 eyes, not possible.

 

[Etoner]

first there were no human rights in the world in the 1700's..human rights are a man made creation.

during 1776, 3 states wanted slavery 10 didnt, however if they would have insisted on its outlaw, the u.s. would have never existed.

the founders sought to eliminate slavery by the time of there deaths, by outlawing the importation of slaves by 1808.

by the way, you cant look at america in 1787, though 21013 eyes, not possible.

And then they passed the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850.

So much for freedom and human rights.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

People need to remember that freedom doesn't exist unless people commit and fight for it.

Declarations are meaningless if laws that follow it deny freedom. Our Constitution didn't stand up for freedom until 1865.

Actually, slavery is still legal in the US. Read the 13th amendment.

 

[Master PO]

And then they passed the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850.

So much for freedom and human rights.

can you tell me, when the term human rights was first used by a government?


today it is used, by anyone and everyone, who believes they have a right to something

 

[Etoner]

can you tell me, when the term human rights was first used by a government?

today it is used, by anyone and everyone, who believes they have a right to something

All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights.

The Constitution spat on this declaration. As did the two Fugitive Slave Acts.

 

[Master PO]

All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights.

The Constitution spat on this declaration. As did the two Fugitive Slave Acts.

and slaves were not recognized as people then, you trying to see into the 1700's with today eyes, you cant do that.

america had white indentured slaves when america first started out.

 

[Etoner]

and slaves were not recognized as people then, you trying to see into the 1700's with today eyes, you cant do that.

america had white indentured slaves when america first started out.

Who worked off their debt and then became free after a few years.

There was no "Fugitive Indentured Servitude Act" that allowed literally any white person to be accused of being a run away piece of property and forced into labor without any Due Process.

The comparison is bs.

 

[Master PO]

Who worked off their debt and then became free after a few years.

There was no "Fugitive Indentured Servitude Act" that allowed literally any white person to be accused of being a run away piece of property and forced into labor without any Due Process.

The comparison is bs.

i am saying people have been enslaved before america, and you are trying to look at america of the 1700's with today's eyes, and that's not possible.

in 50 to 100 years from now people are going to look at america and the people on it in 2013, and they will wonder why we did things we did, and there are going to be people who will, attack us for our actions we do now.

so as you attack the people of the past, you will be attacked also.