Julian Assange - a hero or a criminal?

JoeyJoystick · Sep 9, 2020

jcgriff2 said:
You had anonymous people uploading data to foreign servers with a foreign URL.

From what I understood a while ago, this is exactly why they want to try him. Because they are basically contesting this. They are claiming that Assange cooperated with some of the people sending information.

jcgriff2 said:
So are you telling me that if I publish KGB/FSB secrets on US servers that I can be arrested by whatever country I am caught in; extradited to Russia and prosecuted by Russia for Treason against Russia even though I am a US citizen and reside in the US and so does the data?

In this case you get a slightly different scenario though. Some FSB guy will come to your town and contaminate it with Novichok or something similar. Why investigate, why a trial. After all you do not care about people other than your friends and in addition to that you of course care a lot about money. Much like the Trumpet, who really is just a Putin Wannabe. On a good day that is. Every other day he just looks like the pathetic man he is. But this is not about The Trumpet. Oh, and if it was China instead of Russia, well than you would get kidnapped across borders and put into a concentration camp.

So, at least the US keeps up the appearance of fairness by trying the legal path. And quite frankly, I think they will pull it off, provided that teh UK actually extradites him, and that is not sure as of yet.

Joey

JoeyJoystick · Sep 9, 2020

Blue Donkey said:
I have no idea what you are talking about in the third paragraph.

Hillary Clinton was investigated twice and testified under oath in the Senate. I was totally opposed to the case reopening because in a court of law, criminals can't be tried twice for the same crime. But I did support the first investigation and Senate testimony.

I agree some people screwed up. But mostly because of the timing though. Yes you can not be tried twice. However, she has never been tried, she has only been investigated. And when you reach the end, you close the investigation. If, subsequently new evidence emerges, that it is of course the right thing to do to re-open the investigation. Because that's what it was, an investigation. The timing was bad though and this could have, arguably, presented The Trumpet with a win during the election. And I deliberately say arguably, because there is probably as many opinions on this subject as there are American who can read and write, while the truth is; we will never know...

Joey

Patriotic Voter · Sep 9, 2020

JoeyJoystick said:
I agree some people screwed up. But mostly because of the timing though. Yes you can not be tried twice. However, she has never been tried, she has only been investigated. And when you reach the end, you close the investigation. If, subsequently new evidence emerges, that it is of course the right thing to do to re-open the investigation. Because that's what it was, an investigation. The timing was bad though and this could have, arguably, presented The Trumpet with a win during the election. And I deliberately say arguably, because there is probably as many opinions on this subject as there are American who can read and write, while the truth is; we will never know.

The timing was intentional. Both sides of Congress were red, so they did it then just to prevent Hillary Clinton from moving back into the White House. I know that because the investigation happened while she was a presidential candidate.

jcgriff2 · Sep 9, 2020

Sweden said:
Of course you are right. It is unbelievably arrogant for stupid Americans to expect their laws to apply to everyone in the world. When I am in the US I obey US law. Right now I'm trying to think of one I might break without moving from my keyboard. Any suggestions?

Not without breaking your country's laws as well.

jcgriff2 · Sep 9, 2020

JoeyJoystick said:
From what I understood a while ago, this is exactly why they want to try him. Because they are basically contesting this. They are claiming that Assange cooperated with some of the people sending information.

In this case you get a slightly different scenario though. Some FSB guy will come to your town and contaminate it with Novichok or something similar. Why investigate, why a trial. After all you do not care about people other than your friends and in addition to that you of course care a lot about money. Much like the Trumpet, who really is just a Putin Wannabe. On a good day that is. Every other day he just looks like the pathetic man he is. But this is not about The Trumpet. Oh, and if it was China instead of Russia, well than you would get kidnapped across borders and put into a concentration camp.

So, at least the US keeps up the appearance of fairness by trying the legal path. And quite frankly, I think they will pull it off, provided that teh UK actually extradites him, and that is not sure as of yet.

Joey

Nice one about the FSB!

Your 1st part - what criminal charges apply? He is not a US citizen.

JoeyJoystick · Sep 9, 2020

jcgriff2 said:
Your 1st part - what criminal charges apply? He is not a US citizen.

Sorry , but I am not a legal scholar or analyst. I was just pointing out that it has been done before. And I do not think that Noriega has taken this all the way to the supreme court while I am pretty sure he had the cash to take the case to the supreme court. His lawyers certainly would have told him about this option if they thought it was viable.

Joey

jcgriff2 · Sep 10, 2020

JoeyJoystick said:
Sorry , but I am not a legal scholar or analyst. I was just pointing out that it has been done before. And I do not think that Noriega has taken this all the way to the supreme court while I am pretty sure he had the cash to take the case to the supreme court. His lawyers certainly would have told him about this option if they thought it was viable.

Joey

Hi Joey. . .

Yeah - I wondered about the invasion of Panama too until I saw a clip of Noriega declaring war on the US.

Even so, we never saw a trial (or heard about one) because he was tried by a military tribunal.

He enjoyed POW status in federal prison and was allowed to wear his Panamanian Military garb.

I do not understand legally how we kept him in prison until his death in 2017. We captured him in 1989, I believe.

JoeyJoystick · Sep 10, 2020

jcgriff2 said:
Hi Joey. . .

Yeah - I wondered about the invasion of Panama too until I saw a clip of Noriega declaring war on the US.

Even so, we never saw a trial (or heard about one) because he was tried by a military tribunal.

He enjoyed POW status in federal prison and was allowed to wear his Panamanian Military garb.

I do not understand legally how we kept him in prison until his death in 2017. We captured him in 1989, I believe.

Hi JC,

Thanks for the information. I learned something again.

Joey

swing_voter · Sep 10, 2020

Assange, while trapped in the Ecuadorian Embassy in Britain, never changed his cat's cat box little. The cat started crapping all over the embassy.

I give him points for that.

The AntiDonald · Sep 10, 2020

jcgriff2 said:
Isn't he an Aussie?

If so, what right does the US have to prosecute him for treason when he's not even an American citizen and none of the data was stored on US Servers?

Trump should pardon him before things get started.

I believe when you're in possession of stolen American information, you have broken the law.

jcgriff2 · Sep 10, 2020

The AntiDonald said:
I believe when you're in possession of stolen American information, you have broken the law.

I'll buy that.

Then he should be charged with receiving and possession of stolen property.

But the US has charged him with espionage -

The New York Times state "Julian Assange, the WikiLeaks leader, has been indicted on 17 counts of violating the Espionage Act for his role in obtaining and publishing secret military and diplomatic documents in 2010, the Justice Department announced on Thursday — a novel case that raises profound First Amendment issues...

Surrealistik · Sep 10, 2020

jcgriff2 said:
Isn't he an Aussie?

If so, what right does the US have to prosecute him for treason when he's not even an American citizen and none of the data was stored on US Servers?

Trump should pardon him before things get started.

I'm legitimately curious as to how many rightly lampooned the new Hong Kong security laws for asserting their statutory jurisdiction over non-Chinese while simultaneously applauding Assange's similarly ridiculous American prosecution.

jcgriff2 · Sep 11, 2020

Surrealistik said:
I'm legitimately curious as to how many rightly lampooned the new Hong Kong security laws for asserting their statutory jurisdiction over non-Chinese while simultaneously applauding Assange's similarly ridiculous American prosecution.

I have a hard time believing that the UK actually arrested Assange on a US indictment for espionage (through Interpol, I assume).

avatar · Sep 11, 2020

jcgriff2 said:
I have a hard time believing that the UK actually arrested Assange on a US indictment for espionage (through Interpol, I assume).

Didn't they arrest him for non appearance in a British court case over extradition to Sweden originally. That was why he ran into political asylum. Now that he's arrested, other charges can be considered.

Perhaps I'm "misremembering"

jcgriff2 · Sep 11, 2020

avatar said:
Didn't they arrest him for non appearance in a British court case over extradition to Sweden originally. That was why he ran into political asylum. Now that he's arrested, other charges can be considered.

Perhaps I'm "misremembering"

I believe you are correct. Assange claimed that it was the US framing him, which we probably did!

Julian Assange - a hero or a criminal?