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Judges Are Playing ‘Calvinball’ With the Constitution Because They’re Mad Trump Was Banned From Twitter

Judges Are Playing ‘Calvinball’ With the Constitution Because They’re Mad Trump Was Banned From Twitter (DB)​

Conservative Fifth Circuit jurists took a sledgehammer to the First Amendment—using incoherent logic, incorrect law-reading, and fake history.

This really is something that has to be read to be understood (there is a link in the article to the Opinion). It is so far from reality as to be mind-bending.

A panel of judges in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals has decided that “editorial discretion” is no longer a protected right under the First Amendment—because the judges are upset that Donald Trump was removed from Twitter.

I know that sounds impossible, but it’s exactly what happened.

“[T]he Supreme Court’s cases do not carve out ‘editorial discretion’ as a special category of First-Amendment-protected expression,” the court said, opening up a pandora’s box of potential mischief.


The Judges in this opinion, authored, unsurprisingly by a Trump appointee who was opposed by a block of rational people, confirmed on a party-line vote of 50-49 (meaning at least one Republican was rational about it), but backed by two other Republican appointees. It is simply insane and dangerous.

I should have included a link to Calvinball.


Frankly thearticle is so badly written I bailed.

If he can't write any better than that, he's no expert on law.
 
That's a rather broad, non-specific term. Why would they ever say something that dumb?
Here's the reality (which some of our friends are clearly not connected to): They are not banning political speech, any more than DP bans "political speech." It would seriously compromise their subscribership if they did so. What they are doing is banning, as their ToS specify, "harmful" speech, as with the Verizon ToS I supplied earlier: "is unlawful, harmful to minors, threatening, harassing, abusive, defamatory, slanderous, fraudulent, gratuitously violent, obscene, deceptive, pornographic, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, or racially, ethnically or otherwise offensive, hateful or abusive" - To wit:
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Because they are not publishers, they are not held responsible for what they allow to be put up. The Texas statute chills censorship, not speech.

They are hiding behind Federal law to censor and going further to violate privacy laws by feeding information to the Federal government AND enacting censorship of views the government opposes----not due to violence but due to opinions or information the government does not like.

I would say they need to chill censorship into a glacier so platforms understand that they need to respect views if they want immunity from torts.
So you think this board should not be allowed to have forum rules. That you should be able to post anything you want, here, and then sue when you are banned.

That's neat.
 
At only the 5000ft view level. I’m not a technical person by any stretch of the imagination.

But if you think laws from 1996 and 1934 fully cover the year 2022 because you want to spew technical networking jargon at me, please don’t. I spend my days listening to tech people explain what they do to me…and frankly? I don’t care. I could care about as much how my cell phone connects to another cell phone about as much as I care about the intricate details of writing Java code for trading platforms.

Lol..
 
Frankly thearticle is so badly written I bailed.

If he can't write any better than that, he's no expert on law.
Did you have the same reaction reading the decision? :) (I know I did.)
 
Basically what is used by communication carriers currently.

What it is NOT is banning users based on questionable postings, etc on major platforms such as FB.

DP doesn’t even ban posters or shut off capacities as quickly as FB does. Or with as little explanation as is given by FB for end users.

I’m not even arguing about the “Trumps” of the world. I’m talking about your average John or Jane Doe being suspended/having account restrictions (such as no advertising) etc.

I’ve seen local small businesses (a pizza shop near me) have their account shut down for X days over humor that an algorithm can’t discern. (Literally a meme along the lines of “you’d kill for this” and a specific new pizza they advertised. Account shut down for X days)

Tell me how that is logical or following any sort of rationale - or is acceptable?

What if your email provider, cell phone provider, etc were to do the same?

Do you have alternatives to facebook? How much did your local pizza shop pay for their facebook account?
 
Gee, what was all that tripe I heard for years and years on Fox and right Wing talk radio about “activist judges” and Stari Decisis?

Guess that went out the window!
I'm sorry that it might be a little bit harder to censor conservatives. I know that deeply upsets you.
 
I'm sorry that it might be a little bit harder to censor conservatives. I know that deeply upsets you.
As if anything they are getting banned for has anything to do with conservatism. That's the con you guys are trying to run. And it doesn't fool anyone.
 
I'm sorry that it might be a little bit harder to censor conservatives. I know that deeply upsets you.

Why do "conservatives" find it so hard to follow the rules for guests on a site?
 
Basically what is used by communication carriers currently.

What it is NOT is banning users based on questionable postings, etc on major platforms such as FB.

DP doesn’t even ban posters or shut off capacities as quickly as FB does. Or with as little explanation as is given by FB for end users.

I’m not even arguing about the “Trumps” of the world. I’m talking about your average John or Jane Doe being suspended/having account restrictions (such as no advertising) etc.

I’ve seen local small businesses (a pizza shop near me) have their account shut down for X days over humor that an algorithm can’t discern. (Literally a meme along the lines of “you’d kill for this” and a specific new pizza they advertised. Account shut down for X days)

Tell me how that is logical or following any sort of rationale - or is acceptable?

What if your email provider, cell phone provider, etc were to do the same?
A friend of mine was banned for 30 days for posting a picture of her new dining room table.

Facebook really only exists to be shat on.
 
A friend of mine was banned for 30 days for posting a picture of her new dining room table.

Facebook really only exists to be shat on.
Oh, I hate everything about it. Don’t get me wrong in that.
 
It was fun to troll while it lasted.
Hey…where else do you hear from people from high school that want to suddenly tell you about this GREAT OPPORTUNITY while also reading how the world is on fire and we are all going to die because of Chinese space lasers?
 
Hey…where else do you hear from people from high school that want to suddenly tell you about this GREAT OPPORTUNITY while also reading how the world is on fire and we are all going to die because of Chinese space lasers?
LOL, MLM schemes are hilarious.

I viewed facebook as a helpful tool to cure people I know in high school who may have become nostalgic about me.

But then I found a Christian nationalist page and I may have gone too far. Zuckerburg seemed to think so, anyway.
 
LOL, MLM schemes are hilarious.

I viewed facebook as a helpful tool to cure people I know in high school who may have become nostalgic about me.

But then I found a Christian nationalist page and I may have gone too far. Zuckerburg seemed to think so, anyway.
I hope it was worth it! 😂 I would guess you could have one heck of a good time chatting up a bunch of Christian Nationalists
 
I hope it was worth it! 😂 I would guess you could have one heck of a good time chatting up a bunch of Christian Nationalists

Well, I didn't strictly "chat". I mean, not precisely.

(remaining text edited out because even the description might get me banned here.)
 
How is the idea of private ownership an unresolvable problem? Why can't Trump just lie and demagogue from his own platform?
This is all about free dissemination of persuasive messaging. They ban books, remember? It’s the “without cost” definition they’re focused on. They used to have to produce and pay to air ads to get their manipulate on.

Now they just pay some folks to go on social media platforms. All the “echos” are free.
 
I'm sorry that it might be a little bit harder to censor conservatives. I know that deeply upsets you.

Censor?

Who said anything about that (except, you; of course)?

For decades, right wing talk radio and Fox presenters routinely whined about following the law (Stari Decisis), and not being an “activist judge”.

And now, that we have a right wing Supreme Court, stari dicisis has gone out the window, and right wing justices are making law.

I was highlighting yet another hypocracy.
 
stari dicisis has gone out the window, and right wing justices are making law.
With respect, it's stare decisis (/ˌsterē dəˈsīsəs/). I was having that fingernails-on-chalkboard feeling. ;)

On the substance, I completely agree.
 
I have found that the course of the discussion has kinda followed the same "logic" as the decision - they reached the result they wanted, without any of the messy intermediate steps like adherence to law, logic, construction or precedent.

There are some fundamental principles at play here: The First Amendment provides, in pertinent part: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble".

The constriction is upon Congress (which the Supreme Court has appropriately interpreted as "the government"). This has been extended to the States through the 14th Amendment ("No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States").

The prohibition is on abridging "the freedom of speech" (or of the press), which again, the Supreme Court has interpreted as "expression" in virtually any form.

"The press" is a separate consideration, because "its role in disseminating news and information, is entitled to deference that others are not entitled to".

And then there is "peaceable assembly", which the Supreme Court has expanded to include "freedom of association" (“It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the ‘liberty’ assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech.” NAACP v. Alabama (1958)). Who one associates with is, itself, expression.

All of these are at play here. The State statute seeks to dictate what speech is allowed regardless of whether the disseminator wished to associate itself with that speech.

The first hurdle the court completely ignores is that the First Amendment only applies to state actors. So its pronouncements about it are complete nonsense. Next, it ignores the role of the medium as "disseminating information" - in the form of opinions - by the private actors posting on the forums. Third, it completely ignores the quality of association involved. In Congress it is not uncommon for a Representative to state, "I associate myself with those remarks". Similarly, here, the law is seeking to force association with remarks despite disagreement. Conceptually, the whole thing is a bloody mess.
 
Because they are not publishers, they are not held responsible for what they allow to be put up. The Texas statute chills censorship, not speech.

They are hiding behind Federal law to censor and going further to violate privacy laws by feeding information to the Federal government AND enacting censorship of views the government opposes----not due to violence but due to opinions or information the government does not like.

I would say they need to chill censorship into a glacier so platforms understand that they need to respect views if they want immunity from torts.
They have a right to censor. They are a private business. It is their site.
 
They have a right to censor. They are a private business. It is their site.
Not if they are what they stated they were before Congress to obtain special exemption from suit. I keep asserting this, everyone keeps acting like they don't know anything about it when the hearings were widely televised.

The more they engage in censorship of speech that doesn't violate the ToS the more they look like a publisher rather than just someone carrying content. And publishers don't get special exemptions from lawsuits. Its cheaper for them to buy politicians than defend from lawsuits.
 
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