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Judge throws out Internet blocking law

aquapub

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I agree with the judge that parents, not the government, should be the ones controlling what their kids watch on TV, but it is not the place of a judge to overturn such anti-porn laws on the constitutionally illiterate notion that someone's 1st Amendment right to dissent from the government is being violated.

This should've been voted on by the people in a referendum, not arbitrarily overturned by an unaccountable, unelected judicial activist.

Judge throws out Internet blocking law - Security - MSNBC.com
 
So you blame the judge for being an activist judge, and not the lawmakers for making a stupid law?
 
I agree with the judge that parents, not the government, should be the ones controlling what their kids watch on TV, but it is not the place of a judge to overturn such anti-porn laws on the constitutionally illiterate notion that someone's 1st Amendment right to dissent from the government is being violated.

This should've been voted on by the people in a referendum, not arbitrarily overturned by an unaccountable, unelected judicial activist.

Judge throws out Internet blocking law - Security - MSNBC.com

I agree with you on this one. The problem here is who is going to determine what is detrimental to kids. That is a HUGE gray area, and could include politics which someone does not like. Therefore, parents ARE the best control in this case.

However, for child porn, or other deviant matter, that is on the internet, then we need to use existing law, and throw the creeps in jail for ....... How does forever sound?
 
I don't know how I feel about that law. On the one hand we expect stores, theatres, restaurants, and other avenues that provide "adult entertainment" to screen out and control minors ability to access their product. I don't see why it's a problem for porn sites to require credit cards as proof of ID. On the other hand if more than porn is being targeted then I could understand the complaint. And it should be up to the parents to control what their kids have access to. But kids are very internet savy and while you may be able to prevent them from getting their hands on a credit card you may not as easily be able to prevent them from learning how to get around any filter you installed.

But even now I know my husband would never give out his credit card number and apparently there is no shortage of free easy access porn available on line. :roll: So the point seems moot either way. A horny teen is going to have very little trouble accessing T & A no matter what you do.
 
I do think that some anti-porn surfing laws should be on the books to protect kids. Places like internet cafes and public libraries should be required to have restrictive software that prevents kids from accessing objectionable material.
 
A person's contitutional rights do not end because other people decide to have children. The responsibility of children is in the hands of the parents. If they do not want their children exposed to something like internet pornography, then get a block. It is not up to internet porn providers to raise other people's kids.

The problem with using credit cards as proof of adulthood is what if an adult who wants to see internet porn does not have a credit card? Should they be denied seeing internet porn because of a law requiring verification when the simple answer is for parents to take control of their own children's upbringing?
 
A person's contitutional rights do not end because other people decide to have children. The responsibility of children is in the hands of the parents. If they do not want their children exposed to something like internet pornography, then get a block. It is not up to internet porn providers to raise other people's kids.

The problem with using credit cards as proof of adulthood is what if an adult who wants to see internet porn does not have a credit card? Should they be denied seeing internet porn because of a law requiring verification when the simple answer is for parents to take control of their own children's upbringing?

You do realize that you are advocating lessening controls that safeguard children in exchange for "freedom to view porn', right? :roll:

There is no constitutional protection that guarantees easy access to pornography. No one's rights are being abridged because sites that display porn require proof of age. Can a child enter a porn store freely without showing proof of age? No. The internet should be no different. Porn is porn.
 
jallman said:
You do realize that you are advocating lessening controls that safeguard children in exchange for "freedom to view porn', right? :roll:

There is no constitutional protection that guarantees easy access to pornography. No one's rights are being abridged because sites that display porn require proof of age. Can a child enter a porn store freely without showing proof of age? No. The internet should be no different. Porn is porn.
I have no problem with helping parents have the tools they need to raise their kids however they want, but if parents can't regulate what their kids see on the internet then maybe those parents shouldn't provide internet access to their kids.
 
I have no problem with helping parents have the tools they need to raise their kids however they want, but if parents can't regulate what their kids see on the internet then maybe those parents shouldn't provide internet access to their kids.

I'm not being obtuse...but did you see where I specifically stated internet cafes and libraries should have blocks? I don't care whether a parent has one or not as that is their business.

However, we require pornography not to be delivered to a minor through counter sales, mail delivery, nor do most states allow distribution of it to minors for free. The internet is no different. If you are delivering porn, in any media, then it is the responsibility of the selling agent to obtain age verification. Period.
 
You do realize that you are advocating lessening controls that safeguard children in exchange for "freedom to view porn', right? :roll:

There is no constitutional protection that guarantees easy access to pornography. No one's rights are being abridged because sites that display porn require proof of age. Can a child enter a porn store freely without showing proof of age? No. The internet should be no different. Porn is porn.

Yes, I am well aware of what I am advocating and I stand by it. There is a constitutional protection with regard to association and the Supreme Court has determined that these laws which "protect" children from internet porn are unconstitutional. I agree with them.

There is a big difference with porn stores: a parent cannot put a block on them, they can block websites.

No one's rights are abridged because of showing proof of age on the internet? What about people who have no proof of age? What about the lack of a credit card example I provided?

The world is not a parent's babysitter. Parents are solely responsible for their own children's upbringing and as I have stated numerous times on this site: "People's rights do not end because other people decide to have children." I realize that is difficult to understand because we have been conditioned to believe otherwise.

This reminds me of a story my supervisor told me a while back. He has neighbors who are a same-sex couple. That couple had pool parties in their yard that my supervisor saw as inappropriate for his children to see. So what did he do? Did he expect the neighbors to stop their parties because he had children? Did he want a law passed to block his neighbors from pool parties? No. He built a fence. He recognized that what he wanted his children to see or not to see was his responsibilty.
 
Yes, I am well aware of what I am advocating and I stand by it. There is a constitutional protection with regard to association and the Supreme Court has determined that these laws which "protect" children from internet porn are unconstitutional. I agree with them.

I find the SCOTUS to be in error as the state has a vested interest in maintaining a standard of social responsibility. Children, whether you like it or not, are a social responsibility as well as personal responsibility. The more personal liberty a society gives, the more social responsibility must be accepted by every member of that society. You have the freedom to view porn. You do not have the freedom to access that porn at the expense of a parent's rights to restrict their children. The social norm is that porn is not acceptable for children. The social responsibility you accept in retaining social liberty in this case is offering proof of age to view porn. It's really not a difficult concept.

There is a big difference with porn stores: a parent cannot put a block on them, they can block websites.

There is no difference. If a site delivers porn in exchange for money, then they have a responsibility to uphold proof verification standards just like any other adult entertainment enterprise. If the site delivers porn for free, then the site is under the same restrictions and penalties that you or I would be by delivering porn directly into the hands of a minor. Keep in mind that home is not the only place with internet access.

No one's rights are abridged because of showing proof of age on the internet?

No, no one's rights are being abridged by showing proof of age to view porn. There is no constitutional guarantee or right that grants unrestricted access to pornography.

What about people who have no proof of age?

I would suggest that they learn the meaning of social responsibility...personal liberties are being hindered by their lack of motivation to have proper id. I do not see you so concerned with their inability to purchase hard copy porn with lack of the same proof of age.

What about the lack of a credit card example I provided?

It is irrelevant for the same reason that lack of credit card can hinder you from shopping at non-porn sites on-line. There is no Constitutional guarantee that a vendor or merchant accept your form of payment or verification. They name the price for their services and what form that price will be rendered in. Totally irrelevant unless you are ready to take on Amazon.com for not taking COD for delivering books.

The world is not a parent's babysitter.

No one said the world is.

Parents are solely responsible for their own children's upbringing

Completely untrue. Society is responsible to protect its weakest members. Our society sees adult materials as being age sensitive. That is just a fact you are going to learn to live with or you will be a very disgruntled citizen for a very long time.

and as I have stated numerous times on this site: "People's rights do not end because other people decide to have children."

State it until you are blue in the face but it won't change the fact that no one's rights are being abridged or ended with laws requiring proof of age to view internet porn. There is no Constitutional guarantee that grants unrestricted access to internet pornography.

I realize that is difficult to understand because we have been conditioned to believe otherwise.

It is difficult to understand because it is socially dysfunctional.

This reminds me of a story my supervisor told me a while back. He has neighbors who are a same-sex couple. That couple had pool parties in their yard that my supervisor saw as inappropriate for his children to see. So what did he do? Did he expect the neighbors to stop their parties because he had children? Did he want a law passed to block his neighbors from pool parties? No. He built a fence. He recognized that what he wanted his children to see or not to see was his responsibilty.

I commend your supervisor for not being litigious. However, if the goings on in his neighbor's yard were obscene or indecent, then the liability was on his neighbors to build the fence...not him.
 
I find the SCOTUS to be in error as the state has a vested interest in maintaining a standard of social responsibility. Children, whether you like it or not, are a social responsibility as well as personal responsibility. The more personal liberty a society gives, the more social responsibility must be accepted by every member of that society. You have the freedom to view porn. You do not have the freedom to access that porn at the expense of a parent's rights to restrict their children. The social norm is that porn is not acceptable for children. The social responsibility you accept in retaining social liberty in this case is offering proof of age to view porn. It's really not a difficult concept.

Very well stated, this one really got me thinking. The standard of social responsibility is with the parents. I see the social norm as being adults having the right to view adult material without restriction and the social responsibilty is for parents to get a blocker where needed. I think your theory of "norms" and "responsibilty" is one of the most intelligent I have read on this site, but they can go both ways.

There is no difference. If a site delivers porn in exchange for money, then they have a responsibility to uphold proof verification standards just like any other adult entertainment enterprise. If the site delivers porn for free, then the site is under the same restrictions and penalties that you or I would be by delivering porn directly into the hands of a minor. Keep in mind that home is not the only place with internet access.

If a place other than a home allows internet access, and a child hangs out there, then it is the responisibilty of the parent to check into it and be sure their children do not have access to anything they do not want their child viewing.

No, no one's rights are being abridged by showing proof of age to view porn. There is no constitutional guarantee or right that grants unrestricted access to pornography.

The constitutional guarantee is the "Freedom of Association" guarenteed by the First Amendment, which was one of the reasonings in SCOTUS' decision.

I would suggest that they learn the meaning of social responsibility...personal liberties are being hindered by their lack of motivation to have proper id. I do not see you so concerned with their inability to purchase hard copy porn with lack of the same proof of age.

There are too many ways to define "social responsibilty." You see one way is to obtain a valid ID. Another person may see it as not needing one for whatever reason they have. You see "personal liberties" being stopped by a lack of ID to access internet sites. I see them being stopped by needing one. Both ideals are completely subjective and our laws cannot be based solely on subjective reasoning.

It is irrelevant for the same reason that lack of credit card can hinder you from shopping at non-porn sites on-line. There is no Constitutional guarantee that a vendor or merchant accept your form of payment or verification. They name the price for their services and what form that price will be rendered in. Totally irrelevant unless you are ready to take on Amazon.com for not taking COD for delivering books.

If I go to a site that requires payment by credit card, then of course I must have one for the service. Not all porn sites require payment.

Completely untrue. Society is responsible to protect its weakest members. Our society sees adult materials as being age sensitive. That is just a fact you are going to learn to live with or you will be a very disgruntled citizen for a very long time.

If "ociety is responsible to protect it weakess members" is a rule you agree with, then live by it. Don't impose it on others. Not all of society sees adult materials as "age sensitive." It is not a required way of life to be a member of society.

State it until you are blue in the face but it won't change the fact that no one's rights are being abridged or ended with laws requiring proof of age to view internet porn. There is no Constitutional guarantee that grants unrestricted access to internet pornography.

Already addressed this. "The Freedom of Association."

It is difficult to understand because it is socially dysfunctional.

Porn is socially dysfunctional? I see it as a healthy release and expression. As a matter of fact, I do not know of anyone who has not watched porn. So if a majority of the members of society have seen porn, then how could it be considered "socially dysfunctional?" I've seen it, you've seen it. Your definition of what is not social acceptablity does not fit here.

I commend your supervisor for not being litigious. However, if the goings on in his neighbor's yard were obscene or indecent, then the liability was on his neighbors to build the fence...not him.

I disagree for the reasons already stated.

I feel like I am beating a dead horse, I should not have to think so much on spring break. I want a beer. lol
 
I feel like I am beating a dead horse. lol

We've been down this road before, but I think we are probably a bit more versed in the topics since our last run-in over a similar topic. I would like to continue this discussion, if you have continued interest, at length over the next few days. In all honesty, this evening I am a bit tired and ready to go home, so I couldn't give you the response you deserve.
 
Porn is socially dysfunctional? I see it as a healthy release and expression. As a matter of fact, I do not know of anyone who has not watched porn. So if a majority of the members of society have seen porn, then how could it be considered "socially dysfunctional?" I've seen it, you've seen it. Your definition of what is not social acceptablity does not fit here.

Easy access to porn for children would be dysfunctional in my opinion.

You talk like a person who doesn't have kids? Do you have kids? Having kids changes your mind about a lot of things.
 
We've been down this road before, but I think we are probably a bit more versed in the topics since our last run-in over a similar topic. I would like to continue this discussion, if you have continued interest, at length over the next few days. In all honesty, this evening I am a bit tired and ready to go home, so I couldn't give you the response you deserve.

Thank you, I am on spring break and I do not want to think so much.
 
I agree with you on this one. The problem here is who is going to determine what is detrimental to kids. That is a HUGE gray area, and could include politics which someone does not like. Therefore, parents ARE the best control in this case.

However, for child porn, or other deviant matter, that is on the internet, then we need to use existing law, and throw the creeps in jail for ....... How does forever sound?

If it weren't for liberals, conservatives would've already succeeded at making this official policy.
 
A person's contitutional rights do not end because other people decide to have children.

The Constitution doesn't grant anyone the right to access or make porn. The express purpose of the 1st Amendment's free speech clause was to protect against federal interference with dissent against it.

This in no way applies to porn.
 
The internet is not childproof. If you let your kids run around on it unsupervised, then they might run into something you find objectionable. Thats YOUR problem. If want to prevent your kids from running into such content, you have 3 easy solutions. You either sit behind them and watch what they surf, install some sort filtering software, or don't let them on the internet.

This is a miserable law for several reasons. The first is that it completely fails to understand the international nature of the internet. The legal age at which one can view such material is different depending on the country state province, ect. All credit cards can do is to tell you the age, but without knowing where the person is from, its pointless. Furthermore, the law is incredibly vague. "Harmful material?" Porn is obviously a candidate, but plenty of other content is harmful. The internet is filled with swearing, violence, racism and other nasty things. Slashdot is a fairly mainsteam website, but still allows swearing. Should they be asked to require a credit card just to view there website?
 
I didn't say I supported the law.

No but you slammed the "activist judge", but not the law makers who put the law into place in the first place...

now who was it that was in power in congress in 1998?
 
Porn is obviously a candidate, but plenty of other content is harmful. The internet is filled with swearing, violence, racism and other nasty things.

It seems funny that there isn't any protest against the violence on the internet, on TV, and in magazines. Or maybe there is, but I don't hear about it. Protests against sex-related material are constantly in the news, though.

But the people who are so militant about pornography don't seem to care as much about whether or not their kids see a lot of violence, which should be just as important. Access for kids to violent content should be limited too (by their parents).
 
I don't see why it's a problem for porn sites to require credit cards as proof of ID. On the other hand if more than porn is being targeted then I could understand the complaint.
Apparently, that's not exactly the issue:
Sexual health sites, the online magazine Salon.com and other Web sites backed by the American Civil Liberties Union challenged the law. They argued that the Child Online Protection Act was unconstitutionally vague
This's prob'ly just a poorly written law. It seems that a similar and more specific law might pass muster.
 
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