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Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional

Jetboogieman

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Ah ****. :doh

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- Missouri's tight restrictions on protests and picketing outside military funerals were tossed out by a federal judge Monday, over free speech concerns.

A small Kansas church had brought suit over its claimed right to loudly march outside the burials and memorial services of those killed in overseas conflicts. The state legislature had passed a law to keep members of the Topeka-based Westboro Baptist Church from demonstrating within 300 feet of such private services.

Church members, led by pastor Fred Phelps, believe God is punishing the United States for "the sin of homosexuality" through events including soldiers' deaths. Members have traveled the country, shouting at grieving family members at funerals and displaying such signs as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers," "God Blew Up the Troops" and "AIDS Cures Fags."

The Supreme Court last year had granted a temporary injunction blocking enforcement of the law until it could be challenged. The justices will hear a similar challenge this fall involving the same church.

Judge Fernando Gaitan in a 19-page order, dismissed the state legislation.
You know, I may disagree with the judges ruling, but he's probably not wrong. Much as I hate the Westboro Baptist church and believe me I do. Is it HIGHLY unfortunately their right to do their hateful crap. Unless anyone here has a legal solution to this dilemna? :(

I'd certainly like to hear about it, cause the WBC is bull****, sick bastards. Which is why I have such respect for the patriot guard riders who went out and did what they did for as many families as they could, I thought that was really really cool.
 

Catz Part Deux

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I figured that this was likely. These people are assholes, but assholes have a right to free speech, even if it offends us.

Actually, free speech isn't happening, in a lot of cases, if we AREN'T being offended. If that makes sense...If everything is sanitized, cleaned up, pc'ed, real free speech isn't actually happening.
 

Harshaw

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What "solution" do you have in mind?

Gotta say, Jet, this post is in pretty stark contrast to many of the things you said in the NYC mosque thread.
 

Jetboogieman

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What "solution" do you have in mind?

Gotta say, Jet, this post is in pretty stark contrast to many of the things you said in the NYC mosque thread.
Well IMHO unless the Mosque is holding up a sign saying Thank God for 9/11 I'd say your point is pretty moot.

As I said "As much as I disagree they have the right..."

Still pains me to see that at an actual funeral people would do such a thing. It seems like it's infringing on the rights of others, but unfortunately there is no right written anywhere to have a peaceful funeral free of jerks :(
 

Harshaw

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Not really. You're disappointed that their right to free speech was upheld, even going so far as to ask if there were other ways around it.

But in the mosque thread, it began and ended with their (Park51's) constitutional rights. The substance of the objection didn't matter.

Look, I'm not trying to berate you for it, but it is inconsistent. Just hoping it helps illustrate that things aren't so black and white.
 

Jetboogieman

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Not really. You're disappointed that their right to free speech was upheld, even going so far as to ask if there were other ways around it.

But in the mosque thread, it began and ended with their (Park51's) constitutional rights. The substance of the objection didn't matter.

Look, I'm not trying to berate you for it, but it is inconsistent. Just hoping it helps illustrate that things aren't so black and white.
Hmmmm....

I guess in a way you are correct. However, I do see it as a little different.

In one, it's 2 blocks away from a hole in a ground, where funerals don't go on every single day for the victims, and muslims dont stand outside their mosque, holding signs praising 9/11 as the procession goes past.

And you know how the other one goes with the WBC.

Yes fine, I hate the fact they have a right to be assholes. And to be consistent we don't have the right to pick and choose what rights we give people or not. I've said many times in the GZM threads that I think it's a bad idea and offered solutions to move the mosque elsewhere to stop offending everyone. However, having said that, I don't see it as a gross infringment of rights to have them protest at least 300 meters away? They still get to protest don't they?
 

MaggieD

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Ah ****. :doh

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional - CNN.com

You know, I may disagree with the judges ruling, but he's probably not wrong. Much as I hate the Westboro Baptist church and believe me I do. Is it HIGHLY unfortunately their right to do their hateful crap. Unless anyone here has a legal solution to this dilemna? :(

I'd certainly like to hear about it, cause the WBC is bull****, sick bastards. Which is why I have such respect for the patriot guard riders who went out and did what they did for as many families as they could, I thought that was really really cool.
Those Patriot Guard Riders will probably be back. I hope so. If there is a God, I'm pretty sure he has something very special in store for those members participating in those mean-spirited demonstrations.
 

Harshaw

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Hmmmm....

I guess in a way you are correct. However, I do see it as a little different.

In one, it's 2 blocks away from a hole in a ground, where funerals don't go on every single day for the victims, and muslims dont stand outside their mosque, holding signs praising 9/11 as the procession goes past.

And you know how the other one goes with the WBC.

Yes fine, I hate the fact they have a right to be assholes. And to be consistent we don't have the right to pick and choose what rights we give people or not. I've said many times in the GZM threads that I think it's a bad idea and offered solutions to move the mosque elsewhere to stop offending everyone. However, having said that, I don't see it as a gross infringment of rights to have them protest at least 300 meters away? They still get to protest don't they?
I would say that the people protesting in NY see the "hole in the ground" about the same way you see the funerals.
 

Jetboogieman

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I would say that the people protesting in NY see the "hole in the ground" about the same way you see the funerals.
Would people feel the same way if something was being rebuilt there?

What ever happened to the Freedom Tower?
 

Harshaw

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Would people feel the same way if something was being rebuilt there?
Probably not, and I have said so. But that's beside the point. The way they feel about Ground Zero is how you feel about those funerals.
 

Jetboogieman

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Probably not, and I have said so. But that's beside the point. The way they feel about Ground Zero is how you feel about those funerals.
And finally we come to an agreeance. I can understand that, I actually can.

The trouble is, the road to painting all Islam is terror. It's such an easy road to go down it's scary. And that's the only thing I wish to avoid.

A good portion of the reasoning to oppose the mosque has included many lies about certain aspects of it, and a good deal of islamophobia. Which I don't appreciate.
 

danarhea

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Ah ****. :doh

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional - CNN.com



You know, I may disagree with the judges ruling, but he's probably not wrong. Much as I hate the Westboro Baptist church and believe me I do. Is it HIGHLY unfortunately their right to do their hateful crap. Unless anyone here has a legal solution to this dilemna? :(

I'd certainly like to hear about it, cause the WBC is bull****, sick bastards. Which is why I have such respect for the patriot guard riders who went out and did what they did for as many families as they could, I thought that was really really cool.
When is the judge's funeral? I would like to attend.......

With a protest sign. See how HIS family likes it. :mrgreen:
 

Harshaw

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And finally we come to an agreeance. I can understand that, I actually can.

The trouble is, the road to painting all Islam is terror. It's such an easy road to go down it's scary. And that's the only thing I wish to avoid.

A good portion of the reasoning to oppose the mosque has included many lies about certain aspects of it, and a good deal of islamophobia. Which I don't appreciate.
Maybe, but nearly none of them denied the mosque's religious freedom or attempted to block it legally. But you're pretty much siding with those who wanted to block WBC's right to protest.
 

Jetboogieman

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Maybe, but nearly none of them denied the mosque's religious freedom or attempted to block it legally. But you're pretty much siding with those who wanted to block WBC's right to protest.
Position on Mosque = They have the Right but they should probably build elsewhere.
Position on WBC = They have the right but I wish they would protest elsewhere.
 

jamesrage

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Ah ****. :doh

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional - CNN.com



You know, I may disagree with the judges ruling, but he's probably not wrong. Much as I hate the Westboro Baptist church and believe me I do. Is it HIGHLY unfortunately their right to do their hateful crap. Unless anyone here has a legal solution to this dilemna? :(

I'd certainly like to hear about it, cause the WBC is bull****, sick bastards. Which is why I have such respect for the patriot guard riders who went out and did what they did for as many families as they could, I thought that was really really cool.

If they are protesting on public property the states have no business stopping them from protesting.
 

Harshaw

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Position on Mosque = They have the Right but they should probably build elsewhere.
Position on WBC = They have the right but I wish they would protest elsewhere.
Dude.

You started the thread swearing, saying you disagreed with the judge's ruling, though you begrudgingly acknowledged he might be right, and then wondered if there were other ways to stop the protests. Sounds to me like you would have been happy had the judge ruled the other way.

Much as you may not agree with the NY mosque protesters, I don't think they ever said anything similar. They acknowledged from the beginning that Park51 has the right to do what they're doing.
 

MaggieD

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If they are protesting on public property the states have no business stopping them from protesting.
Right. And I have every right to consider them assholes. *Big Smile* Ain't America great??
 

Jetboogieman

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Dude.

You started the thread swearing, saying you disagreed with the judge's ruling, though you begrudgingly acknowledged he might be right, and then wondered if there were other ways to stop the protests. Sounds to me like you would have been happy had the judge ruled the other way.

Much as you may not agree with the NY mosque protesters, I don't think they ever said anything similar. They acknowledged from the beginning that Park51 has the right to do what they're doing.
The legal solution I was reffering to if you read my second post, is if there was some technicality in which the WBC was infringing on the rights of the family.

That's where rights end and boundaries begin.

and even admitted that such a boundary does not exist.

Not agreeing with the NY mosque Protestors is one thing, I agree with a few sentiments, what I disagree with is trying to paint all Islam as terror... and inventing lies to get people against it even more, such as the one I debunked about the ground breaking ceremony being on 9/11 2011
 

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I wonder if the families of the deceased could sue the protestors for emotional damage or trauma? That may put an end to it.
 

MaggieD

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I wonder if the families of the deceased could sue the protestors for emotional damage or trauma? That may put an end to it.
Nah. If they have the right to protest, which they do, all bets off. Thank goodness we can't contort the constitution that way.
 

tlmorg02

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Nah. If they have the right to protest, which they do, all bets off. Thank goodness we can't contort the constitution that way.
Your rights only extend as far as you are not infringing on those of others.
 

Orion

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There are seldom limits to free speech but I think protesting a funeral should be one of them.

Or in the least, my right to shoot people who are protesting a funeral of my loved one.
 

MaggieD

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Your rights only extend as far as you are not infringing on those of others.
That's not quite true, Timorg. Not quite. Think about it. The same could be said of both sides if that were the case.

You're infringing on my right to a quiet funeral.
No! You're infringing on my right to protest the war.
 
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