Contrarian said:I applaude you Pac because you are at least open minded enough to realize that people with different views on this issue are not monsters with a blood lust. No one thinks that abortion is a "good" thing. It is a tragedy for most who encounter the reality of facing it. On the other hand, it is not up to me or Fant, or you, to decide what is right for another person because we are not living their life. As I have stated many time; if you are willing to take your principals and beliefs into your own home, you have the right to talk. If not, you have no right to tell another person what to do.
Pac, you are a good person, who is truly open minded and concerned not only with the question of abortion, but of the consequences to those facing the decision.
You really shouldn't be surprised. On most questions, I have always felt that we start out suspended somewhere between the truth and 'biased media hype'. When intelligent persons begin seeking their information from independent sources and begin to ignore poll results, they usually find, as you did, that there is a disconnect between what is purported to be politically correct information and the truths they discover on their own.Pacridge said:The abortion issue probably surprised me more than any other. I guess I'm not really sure what I expected. Maybe I expected an "It's my body if I want an abortion I'll damn well get an abortion" type attitude. But really I never met one person on the left with that attitude. I never met one person who ever said they would ever want an abortion. Not one who thought that an abortion was a good idea. I guess they must be out there? I just never met them. Of the many people I met and spoke to concerning this issue they all thought working toward lowering the number of abortions was a good idea. Surprised me.
Fantasea said:You really shouldn't be surprised. On most questions, I have always felt that we start out suspended somewhere between the truth and 'biased media hype'. When intelligent persons begin seeking their information from independent sources and begin to ignore poll results, they usually find, as you did, that there is a disconnect between what is purported to be politically correct information and the truths they discover on their own.
The time, if there ever was one, when media saw its job as that of unbiased reporting of actual events, is long gone. Today, and for some years now, the media sees its job as being that of 'reporting' events in such a way as to mold public opinion in the shape of their own biases. To maximize the effect, they use columnists and commentators who couch their 'opinions' in terms that often make it seem like factual reporting.
Have you noticed?
Fantasea said:That's true. The problem parents face is incarceration for their efforts to combat the liberal concept that children are free spirits and the only role that parents may play in their lives is to feed, shelter, and clothe them in the current fashion fad, while being responsible for any financial liability which may result from irresponsible childish behavior.
The fact that the school nurse must contact a parent before administering an analgesic to ease the pain of menstrual cramps but can set the wheels in motion for an abortion while keeping the parents totally in the dark is indicative of the lengths to which Planned Parenthood, NOW, and the ACLU will go to further their aims.
For an intellectually honest person, there's no better guide through the media fog than an inquisitive mind.Pacridge said:I don't know if it's just me or what? But something I see is the media almost tries to keep the flames of discontent burning. Both sides (I believe they are really a is right wing and left wing media) seem to be working at pushing the country farther apart; rather than attempting to make any progress at finding commom ground. Seems to me in an age when we have so many in so many countries that really want to hurt us, we should really be making an effort to band together. I suppose it's just not good for their rating. That's probably why watching C-Span is so boring, not a lot of fighting just honest debate of the issues at hand.
Fantasea said:For an intellectually honest person, there's no better guide through the media fog than an inquisitive mind.
What can you expect when the newspsper with the largest circulation is the National Enquirer and the TV program with the largest audience is Jerry Springer?Pacridge said:Which wouldn't be as big of a problem as it is, if people were indeed inquisitive. Far too many, on both sides, simply believe whatever BS they're feed through their choice of media. In far too many ways we're a nation of political sheep. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that most, over 50%, of people in this country couldn't even name a senator from their state.
Actually, this time, I'm not going to treat you to another 'pearl of wisdom'. However, I will compliment you by saying that, intellectually, you do have some famous company.Contrarian said:Both of you (Pac and Fant) are correct in your representations. I would agree that the vast majority of people in our country are intellectually challenged and as a result are easily influenced by whatever belief system that may hit a nerve. Values are taught in a family. A home. Through direct and committed parenting, and that is why I was very happy to see Pac state that he would step up to the plate if his daughter were faced with this problem. Many millions of Americans do not live this idealized lifestyle, and for many of them (usually the uneducated) a legacy of teen pregnancy and desperation is the only lifestyle they know. The answer is to elevate the socio-economic and educational levels of these individuals, not compound the problem with new generations of "unmentionables" to repeat the cycle.
The reality remains that most Americans will agressively argue a position, and not make the personal commitment to contributing to a solution. Putting a million + new kids into orphanages and foster care a year, is only going to perpetuate the tragedy. Sorry Fant, I'm sure you're ready to write... "the same old saw"... but intellectually you know I'm right.
Contrarian said:Wow Fant... I guess I've gone so far to the left that I ended up on your side of the political spectrum. What goes around, comes around?? I thought I was merely a socialist, lib, blah, blah, blah... now I'm just a good old fashioned Fant Fascist!!
Last time I checked, you were the guy who wanted to set up concentration camps for the great unwanted. Maybe you could dress them up in little brown shirts and teach them quaint sayings so they feel like a family. This way you could make them feel wanted without you having to get your hands dirty. Just leave it to the Kamp Komindant.
That was really sad and weak...