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Judge orders special counsel to hand over all interview documents ...

bubbabgone

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Now MUELLER'S under the microscope: Judge sentencing ex-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn orders special counsel to hand over all interview documents after General claimed FBI pressured him NOT to take a lawyer

A U.S. District Judge has demanded that Special Counsel Robert Mueller turn over all the secret documents related to the questioning of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn.

Flynn alleged in a court filling on Tuesday that the FBI pushed him toward having no lawyer present for his January 2017 interview. Flynn he later admitted lying to federal authorities investigating possible Russian interference in the 2016 election during the conversation.

Flynn's attorneys point the finger at then-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe - claiming he pushed Flynn not to have an attorney present for the questioning.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-interview-documents-claims-FBI-pressure.html

Judge Emmet Sullivan ordered the Mueller investigation and the Flynn team to turn over all documents relating to the interview before 3pm Friday.
Because Flynn wasn't in custody the FBI didn't have to advise Flynn of his rights but Sullivan is looking for evidence of coercion.
Sullivan is said to be known for strictly enforcing rules of evidence.

This is a followup to this thread https://www.debatepolitics.com/us-p...sent-during-interview-did-not-warn-false.html from yesterday.
 

Xelor

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So what's your point? That Flynn didn't lie to investigators?

Maybe you're presenting a due process point that concludes Flynn shouldn't be sentenced? Fine, but that doesn't alter the fact that he lied to federal prosecutors. At best, it affects whether his lie can be used to charge him with criminally culpable behavior.
 

Taylor

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This doesn't reflect on Mueller so much as Comey and McCabe.

Although unlikely, it sounds like he could throw out the charges against Flynn if there is sufficient evidence of coercion. This case is doing wonders for the image of the FBI.
 

Hawkeye10

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Now MUELLER'S under the microscope: Judge sentencing ex-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn orders special counsel to hand over all interview documents after General claimed FBI pressured him NOT to take a lawyer



Judge Emmet Sullivan ordered the Mueller investigation and the Flynn team to turn over all documents relating to the interview before 3pm Friday.
Because Flynn wasn't in custody the FBI didn't have to advise Flynn of his rights but Sullivan is looking for evidence of coercion.
Sullivan is said to be known for strictly enforcing rules of evidence.

This is a followup to this thread https://www.debatepolitics.com/us-p...sent-during-interview-did-not-warn-false.html from yesterday.

Judges rarely control out of control prosecutors, seeing anything done to demand justice out of these cats who spend all of their days now hauling Trump down is a welcome surprise, though I dont expect it to amount to much. Most judges agree with the job that is getting done and dont want to get in the way of it.
 

roughdraft274

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Now MUELLER'S under the microscope: Judge sentencing ex-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn orders special counsel to hand over all interview documents after General claimed FBI pressured him NOT to take a lawyer



Judge Emmet Sullivan ordered the Mueller investigation and the Flynn team to turn over all documents relating to the interview before 3pm Friday.
Because Flynn wasn't in custody the FBI didn't have to advise Flynn of his rights but Sullivan is looking for evidence of coercion.
Sullivan is said to be known for strictly enforcing rules of evidence.

This is a followup to this thread https://www.debatepolitics.com/us-p...sent-during-interview-did-not-warn-false.html from yesterday.

Amazing. So all the liberals had to do was claim that no one told Hillary it was illegal to use private email and we right-wingers would have dropped the entire investigation?

How low can we drop the bar for these idiots? Trump's NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR didn't know it was illegal to lie to the FBI regarding foreign communications?
 

apdst

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So what's your point? That Flynn didn't lie to investigators?

Maybe you're presenting a due process point that concludes Flynn shouldn't be sentenced? Fine, but that doesn't alter the fact that he lied to federal prosecutors. At best, it affects whether his lie can be used to charge him with criminally culpable behavior.

The interviewing agents didn't think he lied. One of which was Peter Strzok, so you can't claim Strzok exhibited any kind of pro-Trump Bias.

It wasn't until Mueller came along and said he lied, knowing Flynn didn't have the money to defend himself.
 

apdst

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Amazing. So all the liberals had to do was claim that no one told Hillary it was illegal to use private email and we right-wingers would have dropped the entire investigation?

How low can we drop the bar for these idiots? Trump's NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR didn't know it was illegal to lie to the FBI regarding foreign communications?

Ever hear of Miranda?
 

Plus Ultra

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I think they didn't want Flynn to bring a lawyer because the lawyer would have warned him not to lie, perjury traps are sprung easier in a relaxed and non-adversarial environment.
 

Chomsky

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My thoughts:

1] Flynn, like Manafort before him, is grasping at straws. Notice how he didn't come-up with this, until the very end - at sentencing.

2] I find it hard to believe the National Security Advisor does not know interview protocol.

3] Did the Feds break any laws or guidelines? That could be a biggie. But I doubt they did, in a case this big.

So, we'll see.
 

longview

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I think they didn't want Flynn to bring a lawyer because the lawyer would have warned him not to lie, perjury traps are sprung easier in a relaxed and non-adversarial environment.
I think a good lawyer would have told him to not say a word, as they clearly had their perjury trolling net deployed.
 

Kal'Stang

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So what's your point? That Flynn didn't lie to investigators?

Maybe you're presenting a due process point that concludes Flynn shouldn't be sentenced? Fine, but that doesn't alter the fact that he lied to federal prosecutors. At best, it affects whether his lie can be used to charge him with criminally culpable behavior.

Well, if Sullivan is looking to see if Flynn was coerced in anyway and if he was then its possible that Mueller has coerced others. Which could get all kinds of evidence thrown out the window and not be able to be used because it would be suspect. Coercing is NOT something that ANY investigator wants attached to them.
 

Mycroft

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This is a very interesting development.

I think a bit of history about Judge Sullivan is in order:

A federal judge dismissed the ethics conviction of former Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska on Tuesday after taking the extraordinary step of naming a special prosecutor to investigate whether the government lawyers who ran the Stevens case should themselves be prosecuted for criminal wrongdoing.

Emmet G. Sullivan, speaking in a slow and deliberate manner that failed to conceal his anger, said that in 25 years on the bench, he had “never seen mishandling and misconduct like what I have seen” by the Justice Department prosecutors who tried the Stevens case.

Judge Sullivan’s lacerating 14-minute speech, focusing on disclosures that prosecutors had improperly withheld evidence in the case, virtually guaranteed reverberations beyond the morning’s dismissal of the verdict that helped end Mr. Stevens’s Senate career.

The judge, who was named to the Federal District Court here by President Bill Clinton, delivered a broad warning about what he said was a “troubling tendency” he had observed among prosecutors to stretch the boundaries of ethics restrictions and conceal evidence to win cases. He named Henry F. Schuelke 3rd, a prominent Washington lawyer, to investigate six career Justice Department prosecutors, including the chief and deputy chief of the Public Integrity Section, an elite unit charged with dealing with official corruption, to see if they should face criminal charges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/us/politics/08stevens.html

Add to this the history of Mueller's top team member...Weissmann:

From a tough mob prosecutor in the Eastern District of New York United States Attorney's Office (with former Attorney General Loretta Lynch and Assistant Attorney General Leslie Caldwell), Mr. Weissmann became the first Deputy Director — and then Director — of the elite Enron Task Force, formed in 1991.

The Task Force quickly devolved into a cabal that used mob tactics itself.

It dealt the death penalty to the venerable accounting firm of Arthur Andersen LLP, which employed 85,000 people world-wide and represented approximately 2500 publicly-traded companies. It even coerced a guilty plea out of Andersen partner David Duncan.

In a trial rife with prosecutorial misconduct obviously calculated to win at any cost, Weissmann helped rewrite crucial jury instructions defining the "crime" and the intent required.

Three years later, a unanimous Supreme Court reversed the conviction. All the justices agreed that Andersen's conduct was not a crime, and it was "shocking how little criminal culpability the jury instructions required."

In plain English, Mr. Weissmann concocted a crime, destroyed a company and 85,000 jobs, spent millions of tax dollars, and obtained a wrongful conviction — all for nothing.

The prosecutors were so over-reaching that the judge even allowed Mr. Duncan to withdraw his guilty plea.

Weissmann ran the grand jury like a petty tyrant. He instructed one defendant (my client) — who had appeared voluntarily — to share his "personal understanding" of a telephone call he had not even participated in, "whether his understanding was accurate or not." Then, Weissmann indicted him for perjury and obstruction of justice for his answer.

Determined to "send a message to Wall Street," Weissmann supervised the prosecution of four Merrill Lynch executives on charges that were unprecedented.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/robert-mueller-andrew-weissmann/2017/06/07/id/794685/

We'll have to see how this goes, but I'm thinking it may not be looking so good for Team Mueller.
 

Xelor

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Well, if Sullivan is looking to see if Flynn was coerced in anyway and if he was then its possible that Mueller has coerced others. Which could get all kinds of evidence thrown out the window and not be able to be used because it would be suspect. Coercing is NOT something that ANY investigator wants attached to them.

I can assure you the judge isn't looking for "any" form of coercion. S/he's looking for information to support the assertion Flynn made, that he was "pushed" to abjure attorney representation during his questioning.

Judges, most especially those presiding over cases having defendants such as Gen. Flynn and matters as straightforward as lying (or not) to investigators, don't insert themselves into the case and look for information to support or refute claims the parties to the case haven't made.
 

danarhea

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My thoughts:

1] Flynn, like Manafort before him, is grasping at straws. Notice how he didn't come-up with this, until the very end - at sentencing.

2] I find it hard to believe the National Security Advisor does not know interview protocol.

3] Did the Feds break any laws or guidelines? That could be a biggie. But I doubt they did, in a case this big.

So, we'll see.

Flynn could be about to pook the pooch on this one. As it stands, prosecutors are recommending no jail time for him. If he loses his argument here, prosecutors may reconsider that recommendation, and he may end up in prison. Dumb move, if you ask me.
 

Plus Ultra

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Did the Feds break any laws or guidelines? That could be a biggie. But I doubt they did, in a case this big.
Mueller has a lengthy record of prosecutorial abuse in some "big cases", he's been admonished for this by different judges. Mueller may have delayed accusing Flynn so he could elicit more candid responses. The transcripts would be very helpful, the court could conclude (as Strzok did) that Flynn didn't lie, that Flynn was induced to lie in some semantic trap, or that Mueller mischaracterizes whatever he claims was a lie. It is not inconceivable the court could dismiss the plea and the charges.
 

What if...?

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Well, if Sullivan is looking to see if Flynn was coerced in anyway and if he was then its possible that Mueller has coerced others. Which could get all kinds of evidence thrown out the window and not be able to be used because it would be suspect. Coercing is NOT something that ANY investigator wants attached to them.

ALL plea deals are "coercion".

"Agree to this or you're doing hard time."

Well, maybe some criminals "see the error of their ways" and want to make amends.

But I don't think its more than CYA for most.
 

longview

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Flynn could be about to pook the pooch on this one. As it stands, prosecutors are recommending no jail time for him. If he loses his argument here, prosecutors may reconsider that recommendation, and he may end up in prison. Dumb move, if you ask me.
It may also depend on if Flynn or his attorneys asked about this of the Judge became suspicious and asked on his own.
 

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Ever hear of Miranda?

A former general with forty years of public service, in a country with fifty years of nightly TV police dramas, has almost certainly heard of Miranda. It cannot seriously be claimed that if the special prosecutor didn't tell him he had a right to remain silent that he didn't know about it. A tenth grader would demand it.
 

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Now MUELLER'S under the microscope: Judge sentencing ex-National Security Advisor Michael Flynn orders special counsel to hand over all interview documents after General claimed FBI pressured him NOT to take a lawyer



Judge Emmet Sullivan ordered the Mueller investigation and the Flynn team to turn over all documents relating to the interview before 3pm Friday.
Because Flynn wasn't in custody the FBI didn't have to advise Flynn of his rights but Sullivan is looking for evidence of coercion.
Sullivan is said to be known for strictly enforcing rules of evidence.

This is a followup to this thread https://www.debatepolitics.com/us-p...sent-during-interview-did-not-warn-false.html from yesterday.

This is really just standard procedure for sentencing. If I were his lawyers I'd be a little careful about mentioning anything about his FBI interview. This judge has reputation for having a bit of an independent streak when it's comes to following sentencing recommendations. If Flynn's lawyers start down that road this judge is likely to cut them off right there and say don't even think for a moment that I am somehow going to entertain the outlandish notion that a former general, who headed up a military intelligence agency, and was the President's National Security Advisor didn't know that lying to FBI was a crime and the he was somehow tricked by them into doing so. Cause he might go ahead and throw him in the slammer just for that
 

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I find it hard to believe that a retired United States Army Lieutenant General, who was given numerous combat arms, conventional, and special operations senior intelligence assignments, was coerced.
 

Chomsky

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Flynn could be about to pook the pooch on this one. As it stands, prosecutors are recommending no jail time for him. If he loses his argument here, prosecutors may reconsider that recommendation, and he may end up in prison. Dumb move, if you ask me.
Great point!

But isn't that how this whole bunch thinks? As long as they've got Trump and the possibility to court pardons, why not put the pedal-to-the-metal and make a real show of it!
 

Mach

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The interviewing agents didn't think he lied. One of which was Peter Strzok, so you can't claim Strzok exhibited any kind of pro-Trump Bias.
It wasn't until Mueller came along and said he lied, knowing Flynn didn't have the money to defend himself.

And that's a lie from the House intel committee, like usual.
Comey had to correct the stupid right-wingers on this, under oath because they cherry picked it out last time so that morons would parrot it.

Mr.Comey.
My recollection was -- he was-- the conclusion
of the investigators was he was obviously lying, but they saw none of the normal common indicia of deception: that is, hesitancy to answer, shifting in seat, sweating, all the things that you might associate with someone who is conscious and manifesting that they are being--they're telling falsehoods.There's no doubt he was lying, but that those indicators weren't there.

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-cont...y-interview-transcript-12-7-18_Redacted-1.pdf

Mother****ing House Republicans spreading fake news like the dillholes they are.
 

Chomsky

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Mueller has a lengthy record of prosecutorial abuse in some "big cases", he's been admonished for this by different judges. Mueller may have delayed accusing Flynn so he could elicit more candid responses. The transcripts would be very helpful, the court could conclude (as Strzok did) that Flynn didn't lie, that Flynn was induced to lie in some semantic trap, or that Mueller mischaracterizes whatever he claims was a lie. It is not inconceivable the court could dismiss the plea and the charges.
I respect your opinion here. It is indeed conceivable the court could rule against. I think it's unlikely, but not inconceivable.
 

Taylor

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If he loses his argument here, prosecutors may reconsider that recommendation, and he may end up in prison. Dumb move, if you ask me.
I doubt the judge would be swayed by them changing the recommendation based on evidence that he asked for.
 
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