Judge orders Papadopoulos to report to prison on Monday

[Gaugingcatenate]

If these clowns, Dem Repub or other, are committing crimes, I say bust them. Lying-perjury are no exception. I'm sincerely tired of crap in our government.

Upon that maybe all of us commoner normal folks may wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Cardinal]

You know...it takes a special kind of mind to make so many associations and assumptions about a post. All that I did was respond to Rex's simple one liner post of "How about you just tell the ****ing truth?". I was showing him that its not always that simple.

I made no comment about Trump, his associates, Papadopoulos, FBI or anything else.

So in other words, you were spamming a video and making a point that had no relevance to the thread topic whatsoever.

I know; shocker.

 

[Chomsky]

Upon that maybe all of us commoner normal folks may wholeheartedly agree.

:thumbs:

 

[Kal'Stang]

So in other words, you were spamming a video and making a point that had no relevance to the thread topic whatsoever.

I know; shocker.

1: Learn what spam is.

2: No relevance to the thread topic when the OP specifically talks about lying, which is responded to by another poster, which lead to Rex's post, which lead to my post to Rex? You might want to review the thread again. It is not specifically about Papadopoulos, FBI, Trump, or his associates. The OP specifically talks about government officials lying and wanting them prosecuted for it. So...talking about telling the truth and it not necessarily being that simple is actually very much on topic.

 

[NeverTrump]

I wonder if Papadopoulos had an attorney present to advise him on his responses at the time the FBI agents were questioning him.

Many attorneys consider this an entrapment system, since typically the investigators already know the answers to some of their questions via some confidential source or some wiretapping record. They ask an innocuous question in hopes of catching a person in a lie.

He has a team of lawyers, worked for President Trump, a mobbed-up Russian wife, and a love of the spotlight. Those things automatically doomed him of any good defense strategy and presumption of innocence.

 

[MovingPictures]

My point is what the lawyer in the video says. Well..technically its HIS point. I'm just a messenger. You don't have to watch it right now. But it IS something that every American should know so I would advise that you do at some point. Note that the video was made in 2012 so has nothing to do with any current event. It is general advice on how to deal with police questions and what happens when being talked to by police. Including how police will often make the claim that "you lied" even when you never actually attempted to. So, simply "telling the truth" isn't a guarantee that you will not be charged with "lying to investigators".

It is indeed smart to not talk to police or investigators. It's your right not to and there are indeed perjury traps.

However, that does not excuse citizens that lie to the police. You have a right to remain silent and have counsel, but you have no right at all to lie on record about relevant information.

Eiter don't lie, or shut-up.

 

[MovingPictures]

Please provide an example where one of Trump's associates were indicted or pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI as a result of a "perjury trap," i.e. a situation in which the associate told the truth but was charged for lying to investigators anyway.

Since you posted that video and made the above post in a thread in which Papadopoulos is going to serve 14 days for lying to the FBI, I assume you're also able to demonstrate that Papadopoulos in particular told the FBI the truth and was charged for lying anyway.

Right?

This.

None of these people forgot anything, nor were they trapped into misstatements. No, their ego's were so big they honestly thought they could outsmart investigators, and tell obvious lies and fiction.

Only problem was, federal investigators are not their dumbass supporters, and were willing to fact check them and hold them accountable for blatant dishonesty.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Source: (CNN) Judge orders Papadopoulos to report to prison on Monday

Despite the propensity of some dismissing this incident as "merely a process crime", I'm having a hard time feeling any sorrow for someone that attempted to obstruct justice by lying to federal investigators.

I for one am glad to see a crackdown on this stuff, because quite frankly I'm tired of the of lying and deceit of those in our government. I surely don't want prosecutorial abuse; but I see no other way to properly depose during an investigation, without the threat of negative consequence.

You seemed to be OK with the last administration, so why are you so riled up now?

 

[Cardinal]

1: Learn what spam is.

I know exactly what it is, and I know that you have posted this exact video in a large number of threads dealing with Trump associates pleading guilty for lying to the FBI or being indicted for lying to the FBI.

2: No relevance to the thread topic when the OP specifically talks about lying, which is responded to by another poster, which lead to Rex's post, which lead to my post to Rex? You might want to review the thread again. It is not specifically about Papadopoulos, FBI, Trump, or his associates. The OP specifically talks about government officials lying and wanting them prosecuted for it. So...talking about telling the truth and it not necessarily being that simple is actually very much on topic.

Alright, so state categorically for the record that there is no reason whatsoever to assume that anything you've said regarding perjury traps (i.e. saying the truth and being charged for lying to the FBI anyway) applies to Papadopoulos.

 

[NeverTrump]

Help me out! What is an “actual truth?”

Truth isn't truth.

 

[Phys251]

IMO "lying to investigators" is a silly crime, unless the lie is directly tied to a true major crime.

And yet you'd be up in arms in it had anyone in the Obama administration done it.

 

[Chomsky]

You seemed to be OK with the last administration, so why are you so riled up now?

I'm not aware of anytime I've condoned or supported perjury or obstructing LE investigations through lying.

 

[Kal'Stang]

I know exactly what it is, and I know that you have posted this exact video in a large number of threads dealing with Trump associates pleading guilty for lying to the FBI or being indicted for lying to the FBI.

Again, learn what spam is. Spamming

Forum spam is the creation of advertising messages on Internet forums. It is generally done by automated spambots. Most forum spam consists of links to external sites, with the dual goals of increasing search engine visibility in highly competitive areas such as weight loss, pharmaceuticals, gambling, pornography, real estate or loans, and generating more traffic for these commercial websites. Some of these links contain code to track the spambot's identity; if a sale goes through, the spammer behind the spambot earns a commission.

Alright, so state categorically for the record that there is no reason whatsoever to assume that anything you've said regarding perjury traps (i.e. saying the truth and being charged for lying to the FBI anyway) applies to Papadopoulos.

Again, nothing I stated has anything to do with Papadopoulos. I've already stated this. It has to do with what this thread is about. Which is lying, prosecution of more government officials, and telling the truth.

 

[Cardinal]

Again, learn what spam is.

I'm older than the internet. I'm familiar with the concept of spam, and your spamming of that video.

Again, nothing I stated has anything to do with Papadopoulos. I've already stated this. It has to do with what this thread is about. Which is lying, prosecution of more government officials, and telling the truth.

What you posted is that telling the FBI the truth can still result in a criminal charge, all in a thread where somebody is going to jail for lying to the FBI. Despite your words, it's still not 100% clear that you believe that Papadopolous is guilty of lying to the FBI.

 

[MTAtech]

IMO "lying to investigators" is a silly crime, unless the lie is directly tied to a true major crime.

I wonder if Papadopoulos had an attorney present to advise him on his responses at the time the FBI agents were questioning him.

Many attorneys consider this an entrapment system, since typically the investigators already know the answers to some of their questions via some confidential source or some wiretapping record. They ask an innocuous question in hopes of catching a person in a lie.

Consider the most famous example, President Clinton and Monica Lewinski. She had nothing to do with the main issues being investigated yet it was his lie about their relationship that fostered the impeachment attempt.

Were it me facing such questioning I would hire a good criminal defense attorney to sit and advise me before I responded. Better yet, if at all possible request written interrogatories as Trump did so that a crew of attorneys could help me answer the questions without stepping on the lie landmine.

Lying to the FBI isn’t a silly crime. It’s how the law assures that witnesses give the FBI true information and not interfere with the investigation. The law traces back to the Civil War, with military personnel lying to officials to obtain pensions.

Note: nobody is obligated to talk to the FBI but if you do, it must be truthful.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Lying to the FBI isn’t a silly crime. It’s how the law assures that witnesses give the FBI true information and not interfere with the investigation. The law traces back to the Civil War, with military personnel lying to officials to obtain pensions.

Note: nobody is obligated to talk to the FBI but if you do, it must be truthful.

I know the law exists making it a crime.

Still, IMO it IS a "silly crime" because an inadvertent or unintentional misstatement (ex. stating that you didn't say or do something because you don't remember saying or doing it) which had nothing to do with the matter being investigated can result in criminal penalties. Just look at how many of the so-called indictments in the Mueller investigation involved "lying to investigators" as opposed to actual criminal acts.

You are not under oath when you answer the questions of a law enforcement official. However, whatever you say can be used against you in a court of law. IMHO THAT should be sufficient for law enforcement purposes, as opposed to creating a crime for lying about something which may have no actual impact on the issue being investigated.

 

[hanger4]

It's likely he sung and gave some things up. Otherwise there's no rational basis for Mueller agreeing to such a slap on the wrist.

Doesn't matter if Mueller agrees or disagrees, the judge decides.

 

[MTAtech]

I know the law exists making it a crime.

Still, IMO it IS a "silly crime" because an inadvertent or unintentional misstatement (ex. stating that you didn't say or do something because you don't remember saying or doing it) which had nothing to do with the matter being investigated can result in criminal penalties. Just look at how many of the so-called indictments in the Mueller investigation involved "lying to investigators" as opposed to actual criminal acts.

You are not under oath when you answer the questions of a law enforcement official. However, whatever you say can be used against you in a court of law. IMHO THAT should be sufficient for law enforcement purposes, as opposed to creating a crime for lying about something which may have no actual impact on the issue being investigated.

For a lie to the FBI to be chargeable, the lie must be material to an investigation. The example you posed would not meet that standard.

 

[Captain Adverse]

For a lie to the FBI to be chargeable, the lie must be material to an investigation. The example you posed would not meet that standard.

Perhaps, but it points to my question of whether or not he had counsel when he was interviewed.

Nor does it change my mind that it is a silly crime since his false statement was not made under oath, and in any case can be used against him in trial if it is related to the primary charge.

I always advocate NOT speaking to law enforcement if they are questioning you about your possible involvement without counsel present.

 

[Cardinal]

I know the law exists making it a crime.

Still, IMO it IS a "silly crime"

A silly crime. Can you point to the statute or criminal code that describes "silly crimes?"

Is a "silly crime" one than can only be described or acted out in a Monty Python skit?

 

[Rexedgar]

That's what I thought too, but fourteen days was long enough to cause Papadopoulos to try challenging the legitimacy of Mueller's investigation (spoiler alert: he failed).

I understand the reluctance; I don’t fancy losing my freedom for a minute, but this “light” of a sentence in such a “major” case is a head-shaker.....

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Doesn't matter if Mueller agrees or disagrees, the judge decides.

Judges listen to prosecutors in regards to sentencing.

 

[Rexedgar]

Perhaps, but it points to my question of whether or not he had counsel when he was interviewed.

Nor does it change my mind that it is a silly crime since his false statement was not made under oath, and in any case can be used against him in trial if it is related to the primary charge.

I always advocate NOT speaking to law enforcement if they are questioning you about your possible involvement without counsel present.

Are you of the opinion that George Papodopolous (sp?) submitted to an interview w/o counsel?

 

[RAMOSS]

It's likely he sung and gave some things up. Otherwise there's no rational basis for Mueller agreeing to such a slap on the wrist.

Muellers team was arguing for a 6 months sentence I believe .

 

[hanger4]

Judges listen to prosecutors in regards to sentencing.

Of course they do, Mueller/team made a recommendation of 6mo (I think) the judge thought otherwise. It matters not whether Mueller/team agrees.