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Judge orders military to stop enforcing don't ask, don't tell

Redress said:
Yes, I linked to DoDD 1332.14 earlier refuting you. Guess how DoDD 1332.14 came about...hint: it's the DoD taking the law and putting it into a military directive.

Now, about your claims that you still have not proven...
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So, are you claiming that prior to DADT, there was no ban on gays in the miltiary? Or, are you saying that when Reagan signed DD1332, that Clinton's DADT was added to it?

You are aware that DD1304 is what created DADT?

If a directive is deleted, then the last directive stands, just like orders. Hence, just getting rid of DADT isn't going to have the effect that you're looking for.
 
OscarB63 said:
yeah, I 've heard all that before...it still doesn't make sense that a 47 y/o, 200 lb man has to do more pushups and run faster than a 120 lb 20 y/o female.

it's the age thing. I concede the validity in your arguement if you were comparing men and women of the same general age. but when you compare a 40+ guy to a 20s girl, that arguement just doesn't hold water.



/rant on

this last deployment we had ~80 male officers and senior NCOs in our living area we had to share one shower trailer with 5 showers and one latrine trailer with 6 stalls. there were 6 female officers and senior NCOs that shared the other set of trailers. and they were constantly bitching about the conditions in the trailers. really? they could've almost each had a designated shower for themselves that no one else used and they could have had a designated toilet each.

women get promoted faster, females don't get put on near as many of the "**** details" as the guys do. there are all kinds of deferrences made towards females because they are females, which they gladly take advantage of...but the first time something doesn't go their way...it's because SGT whoever is a sexist.

bah.. /rant off
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You shoulda joined a combat arms unit. We never had to deal with that ****. Never had to take some bitch all the way back to the rear, just because her crack decided to start bleeding during a field problem.

When I was in Baumholder, a good friend of mine was a PSG in a signal unit. He told me all kinds of pain-in-the-ass stories about dealing with females in the ranks.
 
apdst said:
So, are you claiming that prior to DADT, there was no ban on gays in the miltiary? Or, are you saying that when Reagan signed DD1332, that Clinton's DADT was added to it?

You are aware that DD1304 is what created DADT?

If a directive is deleted, then the last directive stands, just like orders. Hence, just getting rid of DADT isn't going to have the effect that you're looking for.
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Obviously I never claimed that. DoDD 1332 came about due to directives from Congress/president. I believe at the time DADT was implemented, the most recent version was from Reagan's instruction.

Now, about the claims you continue to not back up...
 
How about 3 new branches in the military... The Homarines, Womarines, and Biarmy

Wouldn't that settle everything??? No DADT needed.

:duel :fueltofir
 
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Update on this, though none of it is surprising: Justice department appeals judge's 'don't ask, don't tell' ruling - CNN.com

The Justice Department Thursday formally appealed a federal court ruling that struck down the government's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, requesting an emergency stay to block the judge's injunction stopping enforcement of the policy.

...

Meanwhile, senior military lawyers at the Department of Defense directed military lawyers to stop any proceedings related to "don't ask, don't tell," a Pentagon spokesman said.

The staff judge advocate generals from the military services -- the senior military lawyers -- sent an e-mail informing the military to abide by the injunction.

"The Department of Defense will of course obey the law, and the e-mail noted that, in the meantime, the Department will abide by the terms in the court's ruling, effective as of the time and date of the ruling," said Col. Dave Lapan, Pentagon spokesman.
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Redress said:
Obviously I never claimed that. DoDD 1332 came about due to directives from Congress/president. I believe at the time DADT was implemented, the most recent version was from Reagan's instruction.

Now, about the claims you continue to not back up...
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So, Reagan implemented DADT in 1996? Are you serious??...:rofl
 
apdst said:
So, Reagan implemented DADT in 1996? Are you serious??...:rofl
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And again, I did not say that, I sad that the most current version of DoDD 1332 was from the Reagan era. Nice try.

Now, are you going to put up and show any evidence for your claims?
 
Obamanator said:
How about 3 new branches in the military... The Homarines, Womarines, and Biarmy

Wouldn't that settle everything??? No DADT needed.

:duel :fueltofir
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I've always believed that the US military should have male units and female units and if gays want to serve openly, there should be gay only units. Female, male and gay units could be made of all the arms.
 
Redress said:
And again, I did not say that, I sad that the most current version of DoDD 1332 was from the Reagan era. Nice try.

Now, are you going to put up and show any evidence for your claims?
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I already have. Perhaps you missed it, during your semantic theater?

You'd never heard of DD1332, before I posted a few weeks ago. Until now, you thought that DADT was the actual ban on gays in the military.
 
apdst said:
I already have. Perhaps you missed it, during your semantic theater?

You'd never heard of DD1332, before I posted a few weeks ago. Until now, you thought that DADT was the actual ban on gays in the military.
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You have not shown anything, and I have heard of DoDD 1332 before I ever heard of you. Accuracy is a good thing.
 
Wow, the military is really in a kind of legal limbo if this is enforced. As I understand it, they won't be able to enforce DADT because of the judge's injunction but at the same time, the law is still on the books and so they still can't ask.
 
CriticalThought said:
Wow, the military is really in a kind of legal limbo if this is enforced. As I understand it, they won't be able to enforce DADT because of the judge's injunction but at the same time, the law is still on the books and so they still can't ask.
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Currently, the military has a hold on any discharges based on orientation and will as long as this order is active(ie until a stay on the judge's order is issues).
 
Why don't we pass a law that only gays can serve in the military? :peace
 
American said:
Why don't we pass a law that only gays can serve in the military? :peace
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Cuz then we would have a kickass military, war would cease in a few years, and the world would enter a time of absolute peace.

That would be bad for the military industrial complex.
 
Althought the courts have the ability to make such decisions, I would much rather have the senate overturn it.
 
Redress said:
You have not shown anything, and I have heard of DoDD 1332 before I ever heard of you. Accuracy is a good thing.
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Yeah, that's why you thought that DADT was the actual ban on gays in the military and that the abolition of DADT would make everything wonderful.
 
I find it hypocritical of Obama to promise the gay community he'd end DADT, and when a judge essentially hands that to him on a silver platter, he asks for a stay of the judges order.

I think Obama just wants it on the books long enough for the Pentagon's report to come out, so when they say 'yes, ending it will not harm the military', he can get it through congress and say 'See? I told you 'I' would end DADT.' He wants the credit to go to him, not some nobody judge.
 
CriticalThought said:
Cuz then we would have a kickass military, war would cease in a few years, and the world would enter a time of absolute peace.

That would be bad for the military industrial complex.
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Sounds an awful lot like you're suggesting that gays are somehow superior to straights. Careful, don't cross the line into the land of bigotry.
 
Whovian said:
But imagine how awesome the uniforms would be!:ninja:
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The uniforms would have to be better than the digitized, puke green, can't be pressed and starched crap they're wearing now.
 
apdst said:
Yeah, that's why you thought that DADT was the actual ban on gays in the military and that the abolition of DADT would make everything wonderful.
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You seem confused about the concept of modifying laws and rules as time goes on. DADT is the current ban on gays serving, which was implemented by changing DoD regulations, as I have proven with links to the actual DADT implementation. Feel free to offer any evidence to your claims, you have not yet done it.
 
Redress said:
You seem confused about the concept of modifying laws and rules as time goes on. DADT is the current ban on gays serving, which was implemented by changing DoD regulations, as I have proven with links to the actual DADT implementation. Feel free to offer any evidence to your claims, you have not yet done it.
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Show us which DoD regs were changed and how they were changed. Thanks in advance.

Again, when a regulation is dropped, the last standing regulation is in effect. Just like operational orders. If DADT is dropped, then DD1332 is currently in effect. It's how the military works. You should already know that.
 
apdst said:
Show us which DoD regs were changed and how they were changed. Thanks in advance.

Again, when a regulation is dropped, the last standing regulation is in effect. Just like operational orders. If DADT is dropped, then DD1332 is currently in effect. It's how the military works. You should already know that.
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Did that. Now you show something.

You are wrong on pretty much everything you have said, and offered no evidence to show otherwise.
 
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