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Judge orders lesbian Air Force nurse reinstated

Jetboogieman

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(CNN) -- A federal judge has ordered the reinstatement of an openly lesbian former Air Force major who was dismissed from the military under the government's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Judge Ronald Leighton of Tacoma, Washington, made his ruling Friday. It is the latest legal and political setback for the Obama administration, which is seeking to end the policy through a legislative and executive solution.

Maj. Margaret Witt, a decorated flight nurse with 20 years of service, had sued to return to the Air Force Reserve. She was honorably discharged in July 2007 on the grounds that she had a six-year relationship with another woman, a civilian.

"Her discharge from the Air Force Reserves violated her substantive due process rights under the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution. She should be restored to her position as a flight nurse with the 446th AES as soon as is practicable," wrote the judge.
Judge orders lesbian Air Force nurse reinstated - CNN.com

I do applaud the Judge standing up for this woman.

HOWEVER!

If stuff like this makes it harder to get rid of DADT all together then I don't support his decision.

As at least one particular person I've seen (and we all know who that is) that claims that repealing DADT gives gays special priviledge... it doesn't. Gays just want to be able to serve their country openly and proudly as WHO THEY ARE. If you have a problem with that, damn do I feel sorry for you.

Constitution this, and constitution that, declaration of independence this RA RA RA RA...

Guess all men aren't created equal eh...:roll:

And please, if you're gonna cite "Where is sexual orientation protected under the constitution?"

If you're a true believer in freedom, then you should demand that it is, explicitely expressed.
 

Councilman

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This was to be expected and like many others I don't really care about then serving as long as does not affect the cohesion of the units they are in.

The UCMJ prohibits any fraternization what so ever so as long as they keep their hands to themselves they should do just fine if they just do their jobs. .

Okay all you Liberals that are shock over a Conservative not freaking out over this can regain consciousness now.

I have a gay younger brother who was kicked out of the Army for being gay so I do know a little bit about it, I also know he was a good soldier while it lasted.
 

Diogenes

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Since when does a civilian judge have the authority to critique military personnel practices?
 

texmaster

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Since when does a civilian judge have the authority to critique military personnel practices?
I don't think they can. Its probably more symbolic. What I can't figure out is if the decesion has no legal weight on the military how did the case get brought through the court system in the first place?
 

BWG

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That's great for Maj. Margaret Witt, but what about Air Force Maj. Michael Almy (ret.), driven from the military during the war in Iraq because the USAF went through his private emails. Didn't they have better things to do, like maybe, a war. Maj. Almy's father and two uncles were career military officers. He served 3 tours in Iraq as well as Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

Or how about Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach? An 18-year veteran (two years short of retirement) of the United States Air Force and an F-15 fighter pilot. He flew 88 combat missions over Afghanistan, Iraq and Kosovo. He was awarded nine air medals, including one for heroism. They no longer need his services, despite his past performance and approximately 25 million dollars invested in his training.

Col. Fehrenbach was 'found out' after consensual sex, off base, with a civilian, was falsely reported as a claim of sexual assault, as concluded by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

They didn't ask or tell.
 

texmaster

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That's great for Maj. Margaret Witt, but what about Air Force Maj. Michael Almy (ret.), driven from the military during the war in Iraq because the USAF went through his private emails. Didn't they have better things to do, like maybe, a war. Maj. Almy's father and two uncles were career military officers. He served 3 tours in Iraq as well as Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
Wrong.

He used government equipment to send those emails and one he sent to a military officer. Of course he was in voilation.

Or how about Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach? An 18-year veteran (two years short of retirement) of the United States Air Force and an F-15 fighter pilot. He flew 88 combat missions over Afghanistan, Iraq and Kosovo. He was awarded nine air medals, including one for heroism. They no longer need his services, despite his past performance and approximately 25 million dollars invested in his training.

Col. Fehrenbach was 'found out' after consensual sex, off base, with a civilian, was falsely reported as a claim of sexual assault, as concluded by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

They didn't ask or tell.
Where is the link to support those findings?

The assault charges were dropped, but the Air Force investigation continued.

The Air Force Personnel Board is still reviewing Fehrenbach's case and government lawyers are reviewing his request for an injunction, the Air Force said Thursday.



Its amazing how you and so many others believe if someone breaks the law its ok if you personally don't agree with it. Unbelievable.
 
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BWG

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texmaster said:
He wasn't outed when someone went through his private email?

texmaster said:
He used government equipment to send those emails and one he sent to a military officer. Of course he was in voilation.
Major Almy had an undergraduate degree in Information Technology, which he utilized in his shorten AF career.

After Almy completed his third deployment to Iraq in January 2005, someone began using the same computer Almy had used while deployed; that person searched Major Almy’s private electronic mail message (“e-mail”) files without his knowledge or permission. The search included a folder of Major Almy’s personal e-mail messages*, sent to his friends and family members, and read messages, including at least one message to a man discussing homosexual conduct. Almy thought the privacy of his messages was protected; he was very knowledgeable about the military’s policy regarding the privacy of e-mail accounts because of his responsibility for information systems. He knew, for example, that according to Air Force policy, e-mail accounts could not be searched unless authorized by proper legal authority or a squadron commander or higher in the military chain of command.

Michael Almy, United States Air Force 1993 – 2006 | argumentum ad cerebrum
Further

Colonel Paul Trahan, US Army (Ret.), wrote: "My view is that Major Almy has been, and will continue to be an excellent officer. As a former Commander and Inspector General I am well aware of the specifics of the Homosexual Conduct Policy. To my knowledge, Major Almy is not in violation of any of the provisions of the policy. To the contrary, it appears that in prosecuting the case against Major Almy, the USAF may have violated the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy,' the Electronic Privacy Act and Presidential directives regarding the suspension of security clearances."

http://openleft.com/upload/DADT%20opinion%20Sept%209%202010.pdf
Lt. Col. Fehrenbach

The Air Force began investigating Fehrenbach in May 2008, after a man he met on the Internet spent an evening at his home and then accused him of rape. Fehrenbach admitted he is gay to police but denied the rape accusation. He was never charged, but Boise police told Fehrenbach’s command that he admitted to being gay.

Lt. col. sues over ‘don’t ask’ - Air Force News, news from Iraq - Air Force Times
. . . Fehrenbach then told the detective he had sex with Cameron Shaner on May 12, 2008. He’d met Shaner, 30, on a gay Web site and invited him to his southeast Boise home. Fehrenbach was soon cleared by police and the Ada County prosecutor’s office. The Air Force Office of Special Investigations subsequently found no violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. AFOSI concluded that Fehrenbach and Shaner had consensual sex, and that Shaner was an “unreliable source of information.”

http://http://www.akawilliam.com/profile-of-lt-col-victor-fehrenbach-and-dadt/
texmaster said:
Where is the link to support those findings?
Where's yours?


texmaster said:
Its amazing how you and so many others believe if someone breaks the law its ok if you personally don't agree with it.
It's amazing how you and so many others believe a law was broken by the victim, based on your prejudice.

texmaster said:
Unbelievable.
Yes, many cons are.
 

apdst

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He wasn't outed when someone went through his private email?



Major Almy had an undergraduate degree in Information Technology, which he utilized in his shorten AF career.



Further



Lt. Col. Fehrenbach






Where's yours?



It's amazing how you and so many others believe a law was broken by the victim, based on your prejudice.


Yes, many cons are.
Emails sent from a combat zone, aren't private, just like regular mail and telephone calls. Major Almy should have been more careful.

If he's no smarter than that, he doesn't deserve to be a senior officer in the United States military, anyway.

The Air Force began investigating Fehrenbach in May 2008, after a man he met on the Internet spent an evening at his home and then accused him of rape. Fehrenbach admitted he is gay to police but denied the rape accusation. He was never charged, but Boise police told Fehrenbach’s command that he admitted to being gay.
There's always another side to these stories...LMAO!!!!

Fehrenbach violated DADT by telling, so there's no need for sympathy there.
 
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Since when does a civilian judge have the authority to critique military personnel practices?
Easy question to answer but might sound complicated

Our Military unlike some in other Countries is controlled by a Civilian the President under our Constitution which controls everything in theory.

The Supreme decides what is Contitutional in the end but lower Federal Courts can intercede when ever there is a question on the Constitutionality of any item.

So one might think the Supreme Court is the ultimate power in the land however the Supreme Court Justices may be impeached by the House of Representatives and removed from office if convicted in a Senate trial, but only for the same types of offenses that would trigger impeachment proceedings for any other government official under Articles I and II of the Constitution.

Remember to impeach means only to bring charges. To remove someone like the President they are tried in the Senate once charges are brought for high crimes and misdemeanors and are removed when founf guilty.

So then everyone is answerable to the Constitution and the Court and through use of checks and balances each branch of Government is answerable to another the true Ultimate power is in the voting booth of WE THE PEOPLE who decide who is put in the positions of authority and when we decide they are no longer doing as we wish them to do.

We vote them out od office. At least that was the plan of our faonding fathers who never would have believed that we would ever become so partisan that we would vote for anyone just because they are it a certain party regardless how useless and corrupt they have become.

Charley Rangle comes to mind for corrupt and John Mc Cain for useless.

I hope you get this.
 

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Judge orders lesbian Air Force nurse reinstated - CNN.com

I do applaud the Judge standing up for this woman.

HOWEVER!

If stuff like this makes it harder to get rid of DADT all together then I don't support his decision.

As at least one particular person I've seen (and we all know who that is) that claims that repealing DADT gives gays special priviledge... it doesn't. Gays just want to be able to serve their country openly and proudly as WHO THEY ARE. If you have a problem with that, damn do I feel sorry for you.

Constitution this, and constitution that, declaration of independence this RA RA RA RA...

Guess all men aren't created equal eh...:roll:

And please, if you're gonna cite "Where is sexual orientation protected under the constitution?"

If you're a true believer in freedom, then you should demand that it is, explicitely expressed.
That judges ruling has the same power is this eurotrash judge in Spain resuming a torture case against Bush administration lawyers and that judge that ruled DADT is unconstitutional. A waste of time and meaningless.

Spanish judge resumes torture case against six senior Bush lawyers | Andy Worthington
 
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Activist judging at it's finest, and I'm loving every ruling of it.
 

Chappy

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The "Witt Standard," i.e., that the government must prove that removing the particular individual protected unit effectiveness, will be more immediate and effective in voiding DADT than the recent court unconstitutional decision. DADT is just about done.
 

jamesrage

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Activist judging at it's finest, and I'm loving every ruling of it.
What good is the ruling if it meaningless? If a judge has no jurisdiction then the ruling is a waste of time and unenforceable. You might as well be cheering a mock jury verdict.
 

Diogenes

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Easy question to answer but might sound complicated
...
I hope you get this.
Mechanics understood. So apparently the judge has consulted the emanations and penumbras of the Constitution and decided that the political decision to go with DADT is somehow unconstitutional? How long do you suppose it will take for this case to reach SCOTUS?
 

Redress

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Emails sent from a combat zone, aren't private, just like regular mail and telephone calls. Major Almy should have been more careful.

If he's no smarter than that, he doesn't deserve to be a senior officer in the United States military, anyway.
Air Force policy on the subject has been linked in this very thread. It was violated in attaining the email used to discharge him.
 

Redress

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Mechanics understood. So apparently the judge has consulted the emanations and penumbras of the Constitution and decided that the political decision to go with DADT is somehow unconstitutional? How long do you suppose it will take for this case to reach SCOTUS?
Best guess is about 2 years to reach SCOTUS. For those claiming that the civilian court has no authority, the discharge was under US law, so US courts do in fact have the authority to rule.
 
H

haibin

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