Judge denies Trump’s bid for a stay of subpoena in Manhattan DA’s tax records case

[TheDoctorWasIn]

The Supreme Court ruled on it? No. Huh? :lamo

2 federal district judges, and 6 circuit judges have ruled on it.

SCOTUS won't even grant cert, let alone overturn the circuit.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Looks like gaming the court system to delay and stall is coming to an end.

Judge denies Trump’s bid for a stay of subpoena in Manhattan DA’s tax records case

A federal judge on Friday denied President Donald Trump’s bid to temporarily block a ruling allowing a subpoena for his tax returns and other financial records.

The decision came a day after the judge rejected Trump’s latest attempt to stop the Manhattan District Attorney’s office from enforcing a subpoena issued to his accounting firm.​

And if Trump refuses to turn over the documents? Who's gonna do anything about it? You think the DA is going to send cops to arrest Trump for contempt of court? You think the bench warrant issued by the court will have any impact at all on the "Law & Order" president?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

I didn't ask whether Vance has to release the returns or not. I asked whether he will do so before or after he has his conviction.

They will probably be leaked to the NY Times. That way Trumpsters like you can call it Fake News.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Just a guess on my part but I suspect that the returns will be released to the public during the last week of October.

But according to you, that would be a good thing, because Trump is completely innocent of any wrongdoing and his tax returns will prove this. He would have released them earlier, but of course he was under IRS audit and was prohibited by law from making them public as he so dearly wanted to.

Isn't that right, Lutherf?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

You don't need 6 years of tax returns, or even any tax returns, to prove campaign finance fraud. as far as I know Vance hasn't even informed anyone of exactly what he's investigating and it used to be that the American people had the protections of the 4th Amendment. The idea there was that a rogue prosecutor couldn't investigate just to find something to prosecute. There had to be probable cause to start issuing warrants.

These days it's kind of like "some news report said so" is sufficient probable cause to start issuing warrants. That's not the way it's supposed to work.

Tax returns are signed under penalty of perjury if false information is provided to the government. That pretty well tosses the 4th amendment argument. You don't get to lie under oath and then claim the government violated your right to do so.

There is reason to believe Trump committed tax fraud. Just turn over his tax papers and clear up the misunderstanding. Unless he has something he wishes to hide. What do you suppose that could be?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

There is an IRS to handle those investigations.

IRS does not investigate state tax fraud. You know that.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Why would NY nine years of his taxes, back to 2011, anyway? Sounds like they're fishing.

If Trump bought a property 9 years ago and has claimed one value for tax purposes and another value for obtaining loans, that means he either committed bank fraud or tax fraud. Therefore all 9 years of tax returns will clear this right up because those amounts will be identical for each year. So why doesn't Trump want to release the tax returns?

Hint: The Manhattan DA already has the bank documents from Deutsche Bank.

 

[Lutherf]

Tax returns are signed under penalty of perjury if false information is provided to the government. That pretty well tosses the 4th amendment argument. You don't get to lie under oath and then claim the government violated your right to do so.

There is reason to believe Trump committed tax fraud. Just turn over his tax papers and clear up the misunderstanding. Unless he has something he wishes to hide. What do you suppose that could be?

Should we go digging into your tax returns to see if you lied?

Back in 2016 the FBI was able to pull all kinds of investigative crap because they claimed to be conducting a "counterintelligence" investigation related to Trump and his campaign staff. This isn't the same. This is supposed to be a criminal investigation and some crime needs to be identified beyond "I'm sure he did something, we just need to figure out what".

 

[Lutherf]

If Trump bought a property 9 years ago and has claimed one value for tax purposes and another value for obtaining loans, that means he either committed bank fraud or tax fraud. Therefore all 9 years of tax returns will clear this right up because those amounts will be identical for each year. So why doesn't Trump want to release the tax returns?

Hint: The Manhattan DA already has the bank documents from Deutsche Bank.

It doesn't mean that at all. The depreciation he claims each year will be calculated based on how much he paid for the building and components. The assessment for property tax will be conducted by the municipality and based on whatever standards they use. The value for insurance purposes will be based on replacement value. The value for resale will be based on condition, location and other market factors. The value for lending purposes will include rental income, available equity and market expectations. They will all be different values and will all be completely legitimate. It's kind of like putting a value on your own services. If you're an expert pizza cook you can charge a premium for that service but if you have no idea how to put up drywall your value drops like a rock with regard to that service.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

As far as claims regarding the valuation of property for income tax, property tax, collateral and insurance goes that should be one heck of a case to make since "value" is pretty doggone subjective and requiring a property owner to use something such as unadjusted basis for valuation under all those circumstances would pretty much blow up the commercial real estate, insurance and lending sectors. /QUOTE]

Actually, no. There are specific formulas and factors taken into valuation of real properties. When an appraiser writes down a number, he/she has to be prepared to defend that number. Their "subjective opinion" has to be backed up using standardized appraisal standards. If the appraisal is too high for purposes of obtaining a loan with the property as collateral, it is regarded as misrepresentation and bank fraud. If the appraisal if for tax assessment and it is too low, that is possible tax fraud.

No, Lutherf, they don't just get to pull numbers out of their ass.

 

[Deuce]

I would imagine copies will be made by dutiful patriots and leaked to the press.

Just a guess on my part but I suspect that the returns will be released to the public during the last week of October.

You don't need 6 years of tax returns, or even any tax returns, to prove campaign finance fraud. as far as I know Vance hasn't even informed anyone of exactly what he's investigating and it used to be that the American people had the protections of the 4th Amendment. The idea there was that a rogue prosecutor couldn't investigate just to find something to prosecute. There had to be probable cause to start issuing warrants.

These days it's kind of like "some news report said so" is sufficient probable cause to start issuing warrants. That's not the way it's supposed to work.

How have you managed to convince yourself the 4th amendment has been violated?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Should we go digging into your tax returns to see if you lied?

You? Only if I were to declare as a candidate for public office. However, the IRS is welcome to investigate my entire financial history from the day I was born. I have never fudged on any tax or loan matter whatsoever. I even accurately declared my tip income when I bussed tables while I was in college. And all my tax returns were prepared by honest experienced tax accountants since my mid twenties.

 

[The AntiDonald]

So will we all see his tax returns before or after he is found guilty of campaign finance violations and tax fraud?

'WE' don't need to see his tax returns. All we need to see are the indictments and convictions.

 

[The AntiDonald]

I didn't ask whether Vance has to release the returns or not. I asked whether he will do so before or after he has his conviction.

If he gets a conviction, I doubt it matters to anyone if their are released. Not to me anyway. The mere fact that Trump is a proven criminal is all I need to know.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Trump is next going to ask the Second Circuit to stay Judge Marrero's ruling. Then it's on to the Supreme Court.

SCOTUS has no time to mess with Trump's petty games. They won't take it. And they may do us all the favor of announcing that before the election. It'll be close.

 

[The AntiDonald]

You don't need 6 years of tax returns, or even any tax returns, to prove campaign finance fraud. as far as I know Vance hasn't even informed anyone of exactly what he's investigating and it used to be that the American people had the protections of the 4th Amendment. The idea there was that a rogue prosecutor couldn't investigate just to find something to prosecute. There had to be probable cause to start issuing warrants.

These days it's kind of like "some news report said so" is sufficient probable cause to start issuing warrants. That's not the way it's supposed to work.

Michael Cohen testified under oath to congress. That's where all this came from. And you can be sure Cohen is working with the prosecutor. Cohen said he saw crimes and has the receipts to prove it.

His book will be out in two weeks.

 

[The AntiDonald]

There is an IRS to handle those investigations.

An IRS run by Trump. That's the entire problem with the executive branch. Not enough teeth by congress to really do anything about it. If Trump has broken tax laws, he should be prosecuted. Instead he gets to play the delay game which IMHO wastes all the court's time.

But since the IRS won't do anything, it all has to go through state prosecution because we currently have a DOJ who won't even look at a criminal referral related to Trump or his allies.

 

[The AntiDonald]

He appointed the head and what do you thi I that head can do just like barr does...

You cant be this naive

Also appointed the head attorney that works for the IRS. That's why it's up to the state until of course Biden wins and changes all that. Rumor has it Biden will appoint a legal panel to hash through all the criminal activity in the executive branch. He's also said he will not interfere with DOJ decisions.

 

[The AntiDonald]

My understanding is that this investigation is about Trump claiming his $150,000 payment to Stormy Daniels to keep quiet about her affair with Trump as a business deduction.

Can anyone confirm that?

Sorry, never mind. Thanks, Google:



Oh, this is going to be good fun.

And the $150K that went to the playboy bunny. That's $280K dollars that was likely reported incorrectly to avoid paying taxes on it. The actual campaign finance violation is a separate thing.

 

[The AntiDonald]

When debating, it's customary to support your argument.

See, watch...

DC Circuit tosses suit claiming Trump is violating emoluments clause

That was one of two cases. The other case has been given the green light. It's just taking it's time in the courts as are his rape accusations.

 

[The AntiDonald]

On the contrary I believe that is very real intent to indict and the prosecute if the evidence gathered supports and correlates to the description of the pertinence of the subpoena Vance's lawyers gave to a federal judge of a “complex financial investigation” that followed public reports of “extensive and protracted criminal conduct at the Trump Organization.” If so Trump and likely other family members involved in the Trump Organization business could be facing some serious legal challenges in the near future.

Can you say 'MONEY LAUNDERING'

 

[The AntiDonald]

And if Trump refuses to turn over the documents? Who's gonna do anything about it? You think the DA is going to send cops to arrest Trump for contempt of court? You think the bench warrant issued by the court will have any impact at all on the "Law & Order" president?

The subpoena's went to Mazar's and Deutsche bank. They did not go to Trump. They won't arrest Trump until indictments are issued.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Should we go digging into your tax returns to see if you lied?

Back in 2016 the FBI was able to pull all kinds of investigative crap because they claimed to be conducting a "counterintelligence" investigation related to Trump and his campaign staff. This isn't the same. This is supposed to be a criminal investigation and some crime needs to be identified beyond "I'm sure he did something, we just need to figure out what".

Yes, please do. I have never lied and always paid all my taxes, no matter how much I didn't want to. Investigate away bro.

 

[Plasmaball]

Also appointed the head attorney that works for the IRS. That's why it's up to the state until of course Biden wins and changes all that. Rumor has it Biden will appoint a legal panel to hash through all the criminal activity in the executive branch. He's also said he will not interfere with DOJ decisions.

Ayup which is why he needs to win. I want to see some stomping

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

And if Trump refuses to turn over the documents? Who's gonna do anything about it? You think the DA is going to send cops to arrest Trump for contempt of court? You think the bench warrant issued by the court will have any impact at all on the "Law & Order" president?

I guess that you didn't notice that the subpoena was NOT directed at Mr. Trump (it was directed at his accountants).

I guess that you didn't know that accountants have professional associations.

I guess that you didn't know that accountants professional associations can "remove certification" for "non-professional conduct".

I guess that you didn't know that "refusal to obey lawful court orders" and "obstruction of justice" both fall under the rubric of "non-professional conduct".

I guess that you didn't know that an accountant who does NOT have professional accreditation tends to suffer a "slight" drop in income and employment opportunities.