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Judge Cannon overrules Special Master to once again protect Trump

OrphanSlug

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This is exactly what "anti-establishment" Republicans wanted, the insertion of Trump's establishment protecting Trump. The best evidence we have that Trumpists care not about the Constitution, rule of law, or even this nation's top secrets.

Frauds, all Trump supporters.
 

Quag

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Judge wants to get in the history books and doesnt care why
 

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Must be nice, having the judge be your lawyer. She’s basically what you’d get if Mycroft was a judge.

But this isn’t going to stop the DOJ from continuing their investigation and ultimately indicting him. In fact, they’re probably going to indict him just to get Cannon off their backs. What’s she going to say? “No, you can’t indict Trump”?
 

post

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"Judge" Cannon once again makes a questionable move to protect Trump. It is becoming clearer with every decision she makes that she was put on the court for one reason only, to be there when Trump needed her and she is right there kissing his ass with her decisions. She has apparently been told by Trump and the Federalist Society that Trump should be allowed to continue to lie about the documents and the FBI until his newest lies take hold and he can use them in court. I really wondered how she can live with herself, but then I realized, she is a right wing con with no conscience.



Link to archived image of this article, https://archive.ph/A5isp

Judge rules Trump lawyers don’t have to clarify Mar-a-Lago document claims​

Special master Raymond Dearie had told Donald Trump’s attorneys to address whether documents were, as Trump has claimed, planted or declassified​

September 29, 2022
By Perry Stein



 
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When you get down to it, this was actually the correct call. Like it or hate it, Dearie was asking for something that was outside his duties. While I dislike Trump and his cult. I have to agree with the decision here.
I'm afraid you're wrong here. The problem is, Judge Cannon is so sloppy in her thinking and writing that her orders are full of ambiguities and errors. She's obviously unfamiliar with FRCP 53 (as well as 41(g)), which provides, in pertinent part "(5) Reviewing Procedural Matters. Unless the appointing order establishes a different standard of review, the court may set aside a master's ruling on a procedural matter only for an abuse of discretion."

It really goes back to the beginning. There wasn't a legitimate reason to appoint a master in the first place. And she was unclear on the purpose.

Rule 53. Masters​

"(a) Appointment.
(1) Scope. Unless a statute provides otherwise, a court may appoint a master only to:
(A) perform duties consented to by the parties;
(B) hold trial proceedings and make or recommend findings of fact on issues to be decided without a jury if appointment is warranted by:
(i) some exceptional condition; or
(ii) the need to perform an accounting or resolve a difficult computation of damages; or
(C) address pretrial and posttrial matters that cannot be effectively and timely addressed by an available district judge or magistrate judge of the district."
Is it (B) or (C)? That matters, because the judge's authority to intervene changes.

It doesn't make sense for her to keep dropping into the Master's process if the purpose is she doesn't have time to deal with it.
 

daeler

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I'm afraid you're wrong here. The problem is, Judge Cannon is so sloppy in her thinking and writing that her orders are full of ambiguities and errors. She's obviously unfamiliar with FRCP 53 (as well as 41(g)), which provides, in pertinent part "(5) Reviewing Procedural Matters. Unless the appointing order establishes a different standard of review, the court may set aside a master's ruling on a procedural matter only for an abuse of discretion."

It really goes back to the beginning. There wasn't a legitimate reason to appoint a master in the first place. And she was unclear on the purpose.

Rule 53. Masters​

"(a) Appointment.
(1) Scope. Unless a statute provides otherwise, a court may appoint a master only to:
(A) perform duties consented to by the parties;
(B) hold trial proceedings and make or recommend findings of fact on issues to be decided without a jury if appointment is warranted by:
(i) some exceptional condition; or
(ii) the need to perform an accounting or resolve a difficult computation of damages; or
(C) address pretrial and posttrial matters that cannot be effectively and timely addressed by an available district judge or magistrate judge of the district."
Is it (B) or (C)? That matters, because the judge's authority to intervene changes.

It doesn't make sense for her to keep dropping into the Master's process if the purpose is she doesn't have time to deal with it.
I am under the impression that the Special master was assigned the duties of finding properties that are assigned either executive privilege (which I don't believe Trump has) or attorney client privilege. since there is no indictment currently those should be his only duties.

am I wrong on that? from what I have seen Dearie is currently limited in what his scope is.....
 

anatta

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"Judge" Cannon once again makes a questionable move to protect Trump. It is becoming clearer with every decision she makes that she was put on the court for one reason only, to be there when Trump needed her and she is right there kissing his ass with her decisions. She has apparently been told by Trump and the Federalist Society that Trump should be allowed to continue to lie about the documents and the FBI until his newest lies take hold and he can use them in court. I really wondered how she can live with herself, but then I realized, she is a right wing con with no conscience.
wow! so Cannon was appointed solely to be Trump's puppet on a string? such prescience by Trump :rolleyes:
 

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She get her law degree at Trump University?
Here's the thing: getting a law degree, even graduating high in your class, doesn't make one a good lawyer, or a competent judge. It means you were a good law student. It's a completely different set of skills.
 

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As the young people say, laughing my [posterior] off.

Because a judge makes a ruling favoring Mr. Trump, she must be bad.



But if a judge makes a ruling that favors "President" Biden, then s/he must be good.

Unbelievable!
Lol, that's my view too.
 

Michael Cole

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I'm afraid you're wrong here. The problem is, Judge Cannon is so sloppy in her thinking and writing that her orders are full of ambiguities and errors. She's obviously unfamiliar with FRCP 53 (as well as 41(g)), which provides, in pertinent part "(5) Reviewing Procedural Matters. Unless the appointing order establishes a different standard of review, the court may set aside a master's ruling on a procedural matter only for an abuse of discretion."

It really goes back to the beginning. There wasn't a legitimate reason to appoint a master in the first place. And she was unclear on the purpose.

Rule 53. Masters​

"(a) Appointment.
(1) Scope. Unless a statute provides otherwise, a court may appoint a master only to:
(A) perform duties consented to by the parties;
(B) hold trial proceedings and make or recommend findings of fact on issues to be decided without a jury if appointment is warranted by:
(i) some exceptional condition; or
(ii) the need to perform an accounting or resolve a difficult computation of damages; or
(C) address pretrial and posttrial matters that cannot be effectively and timely addressed by an available district judge or magistrate judge of the district."
Is it (B) or (C)? That matters, because the judge's authority to intervene changes.

It doesn't make sense for her to keep dropping into the Master's process if the purpose is she doesn't have time to deal with it.
Exactly. Cannon has put the cart before the horse throughout this case, which should have been dismissed.

Trump wants to defend himself from an indictment that doesn't exist, and when the government plays along, he objects on the grounds that an indictment doesn't exist. Cannon somehow rationalizes this in her brain, wherever she keeps it.

Garland has the classified docs. He can somewhat ignore Cannon for now. This case is effectively over.
 

NWRatCon

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I am under the impression that the Special master was assigned the duties of finding properties that are assigned either executive privilege (which I don't believe Trump has) or attorney client privilege. since there is no indictment currently those should be his only duties.

am I wrong on that? from what I have seen Dearie is currently limited in what his scope is.....
Not being flip, but try to figure that out by reading her orders. She didn't specify. Dearie, being an experienced Judge (unlike Cannon), took what he was given and made it logical and fit the purpose of a Master. His orders make sense and follow the normal procedures. Her's are, as I said, sloppy and ambiguous. I think he was trying to help her out (as was the 11th Circuit), but she is too headstrong to take correction.

The biggest problem is, she had no business intervening in the first place. She doesn't even have jurisdiction. Trump's original pleading was nonsensical, even she recognized that. This is a civil action interfering in an existing criminal matter. The whole thing should be before Judge Reinhart.
 

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I think she is trying to get Dearie to quit. trump is not a happy camper, his top lawyer is "off" the case for whatever reason and I think Team Trump rues the day that they put Dearie's name forward.
 

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I think she is trying to get Dearie to quit. trump is not a happy camper, his top lawyer is "off" the case for whatever reason and I think Team Trump rues the day that they put Dearie's name forward.
Judge Dearie recognized the challenge at the outset, and put a framework around it. Unlike Judge Cannon, he identified at the outset that this is a civil matter and the Movant (Trump) has the burden of proof. He's trying to stick to that. Cannon doesn't want him to. She's ****ing up by the numbers.
 

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There will probably be an appeal, and the 11th Circuit will smack her again.
I highly doubt it. There really is no reason to appeal.
At the end of the day, either Trump will be able to back up his ludicrous claim of the FBI planting evidence, or he won't. That Judge Cannon is not permitting the Special Mater to call Trump's bluff (read: lie) at this time is really not all that important. Just like his lie about declassifying everything at the WH, Trump's lie about planted evidence will never make it into a legal pleading as a defense because his lawyers know there is zero evidence to support such a claim and they could be subject to sanctions for making this argument without a "good faith " basis.

One thing is for sure, Trump and his crack legal team are not doing anything to endear themselves to Judge Drearie. If they had any hope of getting the benefit of the doubt from their handpicked, republican appointed former district judge, they need to reevaluate that position.
 

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"Judge" Cannon once again makes a questionable move to protect Trump. It is becoming clearer with every decision she makes that she was put on the court for one reason only, to be there when Trump needed her and she is right there kissing his ass with her decisions. She has apparently been told by Trump and the Federalist Society that Trump should be allowed to continue to lie about the documents and the FBI until his newest lies take hold and he can use them in court. I really wondered how she can live with herself, but then I realized, she is a right wing con with no conscience.

Judge Cannon needs to be removed from the case. Her association with trump is a conflict of interest. Her behavior, in this case, is sufficient to remove her from the bench. It is also sufficient to warrant her being disbarred.

No trump appointee should ever be allowed to be the judge in a case involving Trump. It is absolutely unethical.
 

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This was in an earlier thread, but it's relevant here: Everything Wrong With Judge Cannon’s Ruling (Lawfare). It hasn't gotten better with repetition.
"Error #1: The court has no jurisdiction over this matter.
Error #2: A district court has no authority to block a criminal investigation. (11th Circuit fixed this)
Error #3: The ruling is simply incoherent with respect to executive privilege. (And still is.)
Error #4: Normal people don’t get special masters when the FBI executes search warrants against them."
And now, "if you appoint a Master, let them do the job."
 

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Judge Dearie recognized the challenge at the outset, and put a framework around it. Unlike Judge Cannon, he identified at the outset that this is a civil matter and the Movant (Trump) has the burden of proof. He's trying to stick to that. Cannon doesn't want him to. She's ****ing up by the numbers.
A better ruling on this particular matter would have included a gag order, especially on trump
 

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Not being flip, but try to figure that out by reading her orders. She didn't specify. Dearie, being an experienced Judge (unlike Cannon), took what he was given and made it logical and fit the purpose of a Master. His orders make sense and follow the normal procedures. Her's are, as I said, sloppy and ambiguous. I think he was trying to help her out (as was the 11th Circuit), but she is too headstrong to take correction.

The biggest problem is, she had no business intervening in the first place. She doesn't even have jurisdiction. Trump's original pleading was nonsensical, even she recognized that. This is a civil action interfering in an existing criminal matter. The whole thing should be before Judge Reinhart.
I agree that Cannon should not have intervened, and lacks jurisdiction to do so on this issue. And her appointing order was ambiguous.

But I do question Drearie's instruction that Trump has to back up his un plead claim of planted evidence. How does that impact/affect his review for attorney client privilege and/or the non existent executive privilege? Not as if he would not bother reviewing the documents Trump claims to have been planted.

Then again, we go back to the central issue you raised in that a special master should never have been appointed in the first place, and how is a special master to review documents for a privilege that has never been recognized by any court? It harkens back to Justice Potter Stewart's silly comment trying to identify pornography as "I know it when I see it."
 

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I'm more surprised that Trump hasn't claimed they are holding back documents from the Special Master review. I suspect that will come soon.
 

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I agree that Cannon should not have intervened, and lacks jurisdiction to do so on this issue. And her appointing order was ambiguous.

But I do question Drearie's instruction that Trump has to back up his un plead claim of planted evidence. How does that impact/affect his review for attorney client privilege and/or the non existent executive privilege? Not as if he would not bother reviewing the documents Trump claims to have been planted.
I'll answer that in two parts. First, Judge Dearie is emphasizing that this is a CIVIL matter, and Trump is the Movant. As such, he has the burden of proof, and he needs to put up. He made all kinds of allegations in the original Motion (which is, itself, a mess), and Dearie is just trying to establish the ground. Second, a tautology: If the documents were planted, he has no claim to return of them. To the extent this is a Rule 41(g) motion under the criminal rules (they mentioned it, but haven't yet proved any elements of it), it is relevant.

Fed. R. Crim. Proc. 41(g) provides:
Motion to Return Property. A person aggrieved by an unlawful search and seizure of property or by the deprivation of property may move for the property's return. The motion must be filed in the district where the property was seized. The court must receive evidence on any factual issue necessary to decide the motion. If it grants the motion, the court must return the property to the movant, but may impose reasonable conditions to protect access to the property and its use in later proceedings. (Emphases mine)

Again, because Trump is the Movant, he has the burden of presenting evidence. It says so explicitly in the Rule. Judge Dearie, I think, was just trying to move things along. Trump has yet to provide any evidence on any claim. Judge Dearie just wants to see what he is dealing with.
Then again, we go back to the central issue you raised in that a special master should never have been appointed in the first place, and how is a special master to review documents for a privilege that has never been recognized by any court? It harkens back to Justice Potter Stewart's silly comment trying to identify pornography as "I know it when I see it."
Even if seeing ghosts. ;)
 
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As the young people say, laughing my [posterior] off.

Because a judge makes a ruling favoring Mr. Trump, she must be bad.

But if a judge makes a ruling that favors "President" Biden, then s/he must be good.

Unbelievable!
Yes, you are. Consistently.
 

Buckeyes85

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I'll answer that in two parts. First, Judge Dearie is emphasizing that this is a CIVIL matter, and Trump is the Movant. As such, he has the burden of proof, and he needs to put up. He made all kinds of allegations in the original Motion (which is, itself, a mess), and Dearie is just trying to establish the ground. Second, a tautology: If the documents were planted, he has no claim to return of them. To the extent this is a Rule 41(g) motion under the criminal rules (they mentioned it, but haven't yet proved any elements of it), it is relevant.

Fed. R. Crim. Proc. 41(g) provides:
Motion to Return Property. A person aggrieved by an unlawful search and seizure of property or by the deprivation of property may move for the property's return. The motion must be filed in the district where the property was seized. The court must receive evidence on any factual issue necessary to decide the motion. If it grants the motion, the court must return the property to the movant, but may impose reasonable conditions to protect access to the property and its use in later proceedings. (Emphases mine)

Again, because Trump is the Movant, he has the burden of presenting evidence. It says so explicitly in the Rule. Judge Dearie, I think, was just trying to move things along. Trump has yet to provide any evidence on any claim. Judge Dearie just wants to see what he is dealing with.

Even if seeing ghosts. ;)
I guess I should have read Trump's sloppy original motion first. I'm sure it was a peach of a pleading.
And I take it the overarching, or central claim is that everything seized that is either personal, attorney client privileged material, or subject to the faux post presidential term executive privilege, should be returned to him?
 
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