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Judge asks if Flynn's conduct is "treasonous activity"

haymarket said:
That would depend on if you are using a legal definition of the term or a common use application of what is understood treason to be. Betraying his nation for money.
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How did he betray the country?
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Your, as usual, profound insights into the law are, as usual, received with their usual level of respect and admiration.
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You've illustrated your ignorance, again.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Absolutely!!!

It's perfectly obvious to anyone with the level of knowledge and wisdom that you possess that someone who has been a judge since the days of Ronald Reagan has absolutely no knowledge of the law.

Those who are smarter than three day old road-kill might not agree with you, but who in your world cares about that?
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What's the matter with you?!? Can't read English anymore?

The judge acknowledged that he was wrong about the dates when Flynn was a foreign agent and subsequently apologized for his "treason" comment ... after he was informed about his blunder.

Like I said, judge didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
 
Visbek said:
The judge is pretty much on it. He got a little too pissed off, did not quite have his facts right, and walked it back.

He then pushed back the sentencing by a few months to give Flynn more time to cooperate, but also gave a strong signal that no matter how much Flynn sings, this will likely involve some jail time.

Of course, the delusional Trumpets are probably going to switch instantly from "Sullivan will let Flynn off!" to "Sullivan is part of the Resistance!!!" Should be fun....
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Or Sullivan's reputation for being a hot-headed is confirmed, and when combined with his seeming confusion is indicative of a man either in early stages of dementia, or who is thinking 10 steps ahead of both teams trying to force a not-guilty plea.

The case for dementia is that no judge that is prepared for sentencing makes a fundamental error over the circumstances and dates of Turkey lobbying (a NATO member)and then goes ape**** over "treason" as if he is 100 percent clueless to its meaning in law. Sullivan said “arguably you sold your country out.” and “(I) can’t hide my disgust, my disdain” for this criminal offense."

After a break, it became clear (to the judge) that he mangled when Flynn actually worked for Turkey, before joining the Trump campaign. He then walked it back saying the Treason was hypothetical and his assumptions incorrect. So much for "this criminal offense".

He then went on a discursion about his never accepting a guilty plea of someone who wasn't guilty. To some it seemed that he was trying to get Flynn formerly on the record echoing his lawyers defense accusations about FBI tactics. Why?

Finally, the offer to delay sentencing and allow him the opportunity to change his plea, perhaps, partially because the judge realized he made a fundamental error in regards to treason and when Flynn served as a national security advisor.

The judge is either trying to force Flynn to plead not guilty with hyperbolic threats, or he has become unbalanced and sloppy ignorant.

Your choice.
 
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TU Curmudgeon said:
Absolutely!!!

It's perfectly obvious to anyone with the level of knowledge and wisdom that you possess that someone who has been a judge since the days of Ronald Reagan has absolutely no knowledge of the law.

Those who are smarter than three day old road-kill might not agree with you, but who in your world cares about that?
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The judge was smart enough to walk back his ridiculous "treason" comment. Why are you doubling down?
 
This is all you need to know

Sullivan also walked back his treason questions. "I'm not suggesting" Flynn committed treason, Sullivan now said.

"I was just trying to determine the benefit and the generosity of the government," he said. "Don't read too much into the questions I ask."

Van Grack said Mueller's team has "no concern" or no reason to think Flynn committed treason.
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maxparrish said:
The case for dementia is that no judge that is prepared for sentencing makes a fundamental error over the circumstances and dates of Turkey lobbying (a NATO member)and then goes ape**** over "treason" as if he is 100 percent clueless to its meaning in law. Sullivan said “arguably you sold your country out.” and “(I) can’t hide my disgust, my disdain” for this criminal offense."
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So if it is a NATO member it is OK? How about just an ally like say Israel?
 
So, Flynn's pretty much falling on his sword (not that he had much choice) but in doing so, isnt he pretty likely to get a pardon from The Donald?

Another question...how long does a president have to wait, if at all, before pardoning?
 
Lursa said:
So, Flynn's pretty much falling on his sword (not that he had much choice) but in doing so, isnt he pretty likely to get a pardon from The Donald?

Another question...how long does a president have to wait, if at all, before pardoning?
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He can pardon him now if he likes - for any or all federal crimes committed before the date of the pardon.
 
prometeus said:
So if it is a NATO member it is OK? How about just an ally like say Israel?
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All Nato members are allies, and none are declared enemies. Treason cannot and does not apply in these circumstances. Whether or not it is "okay" in private life to lobby for scumbag countries depends on what you think of those scumbag countries. Lobbying for Turkey is not commendable, but lobbying for the previous Russian puppet in the Ukraine was despicable.
 
Lursa said:
So, Flynn's pretty much falling on his sword (not that he had much choice) but in doing so, isnt he pretty likely to get a pardon from The Donald?

Another question...how long does a president have to wait, if at all, before pardoning?
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No sure about that one at all.
Mueller is now trying to hang a Turkey-collusion on Flynn; by the time Mueller is done with Flynn, Flynn will be one exceptionally "toxic" person in the political spectrum - to the point that the majority of people will consider him a traitor.


"First we f Flynn, then we f Trump." - supposedly said by a member of the FBI.
"It is not enough to simply beat Trump. He must be destroyed thoroughly. His kind must not rise again."- Obama adviser David Plouffe
 
maxparrish said:
Or Sullivan's reputation for being a hot-headed is confirmed, and when combined with his seeming confusion is indicative of a man either in early stages of dementia, or who is thinking 10 steps ahead of both teams trying to force a not-guilty plea.
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Sullivan has dementia because... a judge with a rep as a hothead got mad at a defendant? And walked it back after recess?

Are you for reals?


He then went on a discursion about his never accepting a guilty plea of someone who wasn't guilty. To some it seemed that he was trying to get Flynn formerly on the record echoing his lawyers defense accusations about FBI tactics. Why?
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Because Flynn's attorneys are as dumb as a bag of hammers and/or playing politics with their previous filing.

In their request for a light sentence, their argument made it sound like Flynn didn't actually want to plead guilty, and that there were flaws with FBI's handling of the case. (In case you missed it, that's the same interpretation that got the Trumpets whipped into a conspiratorial froth this week.) So, Sullivan today asked Flynn if he meant it when he plead guilty (he did), if he knew at the time that lying to the FBI was a crime (he did), if Flynn was contesting the conditions of the interview (he wasn't) and if the attorneys were claiming that Flynn was the victim of entrapment (they said "no").

As Portnoy reported, this left the judge puzzled: "My question is, how is raising those contentions about the circumstances [of the FBI interview] consistent with his acceptance of responsibility?" That's why he pressed Flynn -- because from a legal standpoint, the defense filing basically didn't make sense.

Their response, by the way, didn't make a lot of sense. Portnoy again: He says he included for judge information he "might want to see" for sentencing purposes.

"Some" have conjectured that Flynn was probably trying to suck up to Trump by making the FBI look bad and/or hint that he was going to revoke his plea. It seems to have worked, though I have no idea why, because even Trump can't be stupid enough to forget that Flynn has spent the past year flipping on his Trumpworld buddies.


Finally, the offer to delay sentencing and allow him the opportunity to change his plea, perhaps, partially because the judge realized he made a fundamental error in regards to treason and when Flynn served as a national security advisor.
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lol, no. Sullivan made the offer to delay before he blew up at Flynn, and before taking a break and calming down. From Portnoy's Twitter:

Judge Sullivan is giving Flynn yet another chance to delay -- now telling him it's his "prerogative" whether to move forward -- because he hasn't necessarily finished offering helpful information to the government that might mitigate a sentence.

Sullivan repeats the phrase "very serious offense" to describe Flynn's crime... "in the West Wing!" "The aggravating circumstances are serious," Sullivan says.

SULLIVAN WARNS FLYNN OF A PRISON SENTENCE: "You were an unregistered agent of a foreign country while serving as the National Security Adviser to the president! "Arguably, this undermines everything this flag over here stands for! Arguably, you sold your country out!"

Sullivan: "I'm not hiding my disgust, my disdain, for this criminal offense." Giving Flynn the chance to delay until he's finished cooperating, Sullivan says he "can't promise anything" about the sentence he's about to hand down.

Sullivan is now asking the special counsel's office whether it ever considered charging Flynn with treason. Prosecutor Brandon Van Grack struggles to answer, saying it wasn't considered.

Sullivan recesses until 12:30pmET because Flynn has asked for the chance to confer with his lawyers before moving forward...
 
apdst said:
Link?
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Mercer. Trump, Bannon, Brexit, Putin, Mercer joins them all. Flynn is a mere functionary, who sold out his country, then lied to the FBI, and lied again.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Mercer. Trump, Bannon, Brexit, Putin, Mercer joins them all. Flynn is a mere functionary, who sold out his country, then lied to the FBI, and lied again.
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Evidence that they're Russian agents, outside of your demented fantacies?
 
apdst said:
Link?
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So you have been away from all news sources for the last two year. Got it.

To substantiate my charge that Trump is a Russian asset, I am quoting NBC Security and Terrorism expert Malcolm Nance who has said so many many many times.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/w...ecame-a-witting-asset-to-russia-1264211011926

I would also strongly urge you to read the following three books which all show that Trump is a Russian asset.

RUSSIAN ROULETTE by Isikoff & Corn

THE APPRENTICE by Greg Miller

HOUSE OF TRUMP HOUSE OF PUTIN by Craig Unger

Read them and find out for yourself.
 
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