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Judge allows states' healthcare suit to proceed

Renae

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(Reuters) - U.S. states can proceed with their lawsuit seeking to overturn President Barack Obama's landmark healthcare reform law, a Florida judge ruled on Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson had already indicated at a hearing last month that he could not uphold parts of a motion by the Justice Department to dismiss the lawsuit, led by Florida and 19 other states.

"In this order, I have not attempted to determine whether the line between constitutional and extra-constitutional government has been crossed," Vinson, of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida, wrote in his ruling.

Opponents of Obama's overhaul of the $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare system have said it violates the Constitution by imposing, for example, unlawful taxes and requiring citizens to obtain coverage, among other issues.

"I am only saying that ... the plaintiffs have at least stated a plausible claim that the line has been crossed," Vinson said.
Judge allows states' healthcare suit to proceed | Reuters

I was amazed to see this not posted. Big news here.
 

Morality Games

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The health care issue is turning me into an anti-federalist. Weird.

Actually, it is instilling anti-federalist sentiments. Anti-federalism is too impractical to be a viewpoint I would espouse, regardless of how I felt.
 
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Renae

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The health care issue is turning me into an anti-federalist. Weird.

Actually, it is instilling anti-federalist sentiments. Anti-federalism is too impractical to be a viewpoint I would espouse, regardless of how I felt.
There are places where the Federal Government is best positioned to take care of things, and places it is not. It's called being practical friend, to admit that sometimes... the Feds need to stay the hell out and sometimes they need to step up.
 

Deuce

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Wait. I thought this happened already. Like weeks ago. Was I hallucinating?
 

soccerboy22

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I am not surprised he let the case go forward. I don't think any federal court would actually turn it down.
 

Morality Games

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There are places where the Federal Government is best positioned to take care of things, and places it is not. It's called being practical friend, to admit that sometimes... the Feds need to stay the hell out and sometimes they need to step up.
The law has to mediate practicality with principle. Practicality enables the law to function in a plurality of situations, but principle confers the legitimacy necessary for it to to be obeyed. Principle is supported by precedents (preceding examples), and the health care reform rests on top of legal precedents that proceeded from the long instituted principle of federalism, which is why the judge only goes so far to say as it is, "plausible," that a line has been crossed, not 'obvious' or 'indisputable'. If there was something about federalism that opponents of health care reform affirmed, then for the sake of supporting the principle of the matter, they would have to accept health care reform. Not because they like it, or because they think it will function properly, but because it is consistent with the principle they affirmed.
 
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Why? The case, so far, does have some validity to it.
Because our elected officials do something our reactionary elements don't like, and what do they do? They don't try and win hearts and minds to change the law, no! They decide to use the courts to subvert democracy.
 

Councilman

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We now can pray that these suits are successful and we can begin the roll back to sanity and away from the Anti-Americanism that has so worrisome and dangerous.

This I pray is the beginning of the end of the Reign of the Trifecta of Doom's attempts to destroy our economy.

One step at a time.
 

Kal'Stang

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Because our elected officials do something our reactionary elements don't like, and what do they do? They don't try and win hearts and minds to change the law, no! They decide to use the courts to subvert democracy.
While the majority of the US population does want health care reform the majority of the US population also did not want Obamacare. So sorry but I see nothing here that indicates that they are trying to "subvert democracy".
 

Deuce

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While the majority of the US population does want health care reform the majority of the US population also did not want Obamacare. So sorry but I see nothing here that indicates that they are trying to "subvert democracy".
The majority want Obamacare when you bother to actually sit down and explain to them what's in the bill and dissect all the lies the right wing has told about it.
 
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While the majority of the US population does want health care reform the majority of the US population also did not want Obamacare. So sorry but I see nothing here that indicates that they are trying to "subvert democracy".
Doesn't change the fact that they'd rather sue than change what they don't like through the ballot.
 

Hicup

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Because our elected officials do something our reactionary elements don't like, and what do they do? They don't try and win hearts and minds to change the law, no! They decide to use the courts to subvert democracy.
Didn't you come out recently? I wonder if you felt the same way about Proposition 8 in CA.. Ya know, using the courts to "subvert democracy"? :)

Just curious..


Tim-
 

FilmFestGuy

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Didn't you come out recently? I wonder if you felt the same way about Proposition 8 in CA.. Ya know, using the courts to "subvert democracy"? :)

Just curious..


Tim-
It still gets to the point that "judicial activism" is little more than, "They decided in a way I didn't like."
 

Hicup

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It still gets to the point that "judicial activism" is little more than, "They decided in a way I didn't like."
Perhaps, but to me, judicial activism represents writing law from the bench.


Tim-
 
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Didn't you come out recently? I wonder if you felt the same way about Proposition 8 in CA.. Ya know, using the courts to "subvert democracy"? :)

Just curious..


Tim-
If conservatives can do it with healthcare, why can't gays? That's all this is: A bit scoop of right-wing hypocrisy.

Anyway, the rule of law is mostly good, but horribly inconvenient. I think we'd do better to avoid it some of the time. Like most things, it's negotiable.
 
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Kal'Stang

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Doesn't change the fact that they'd rather sue than change what they don't like through the ballot.
Umm...that is how our system works. A law is passed by the Congress/Senate and if someone believes that it is unconstitutional or violates peoples rights then they sue through the federal courts. The courts then decide if it is unconstitution/violates rights or not. It has been this way since the begining of the US.
 

The Prof

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this week democrat governor phil bredesen of tennessee came out with a book that blasts obamacare as a "stunning disappointment"

“The problem was expanding coverage is about all we did.”

It’s “about all we did,” because Bredesen thinks that expanded entitlement saddles an already burdened federal government drowning in red ink with additional – and expensive – obligations.

“Government loves complexity, rules and red tape, but we may have outdone ourselves this time,” Bredesen writes. “Reform offered a chance to clean up the baroque system we have created over the years, reduce bureaucracy, lower administrative cost and give clarity and focus to a major part of where we spend our taxpayers’ money.

“Instead, we created more complexity, more regulations and the need for more bureaucracy.”
Dem Governor: Obamacare a ‘Stunning Disappointment’ - By Daniel Foster - The Corner - National Review Online

we've known for a year and a half that the gubs of almost all our states have objected vociferously to the obamacare expanion of medicaid by some 12 million with NO FEDERAL FUNDING

the states are already bankrupt and THIS is how obnoxious obama reaches HIS payfor---you guys can just pick em all up

indeed, speaking for once superstars bill richardson, christine gregoire, brian schweitzer and bill ritter, governor bredesen has repeatedly called this imposition upon the 50, "the mother of unfunded mandates"

as to this ruling, topic of the op, judge vinson actually criticized the doj's reasoning as "alice in wonderland"

Judge disses Dems' 'Alice in Wonderland' health defense - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

his honor takes issue with the doj's argument that the fine to be imposed on those caught breathing without insurance is a TAX and therefore the proper purview of the fed

ahab obama, on the other hand, spent 2 years chasing his whale, telling us all the while that the fine was NOT a tax

judge vinson sided with the campaign and not the briefs, he ruled the fine was a PENALTY and therefore must clear the commerce clause

alice in wonderland, curiouser and curiouser

party on, progressives, aren't you proud?
 

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Yes lets go back to the old ways of health care, it was much better back then. Seriously, shouldn't we at the very least see how this works out before calling for it to be overturned.
 

Boo Radley

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Yes lets go back to the old ways of health care, it was much better back then. Seriously, shouldn't we at the very least see how this works out before calling for it to be overturned.
That would be reasonable. Hell, we could even work to improve it as we go. Again, reasonable. But, I'm not sure we can really expect reasonablness today. Sadly.
 

Crunch

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Doesn't change the fact that they'd rather sue than change what they don't like through the ballot.
Come back and talk about the ballot after November 3rd.
 

American

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The health care issue is turning me into an anti-federalist. Weird.

Actually, it is instilling anti-federalist sentiments. Anti-federalism is too impractical to be a viewpoint I would espouse, regardless of how I felt.
Not sure I understand, but never get the idea that the Federalists were for BIG government. Sure there were some bigger than others, but not even close to the extent espoused by modern progressivism. All Founders were for maximum liberty.

/back on topic
 
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