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Journalist Eva Bartlett interviews DPR Civilians on referendum to join Russia

Tell me something new. Was the elections in Crimea in 2014 at gunpoint? It was also declared illegitimate by the "golden billion".:)
If they are not conducted in a fair and transparent manner, then they are illegitimate.
 
It's a matter of scale and geography. This whole situation is a lot more like the Republic of Texas, that voted to join the U.S., even though it had originally been Mexican territory. The U.S. accepted what amounted to the Republic of Texas' request, Mexico didn't like it and went to war with Texas, the U.S. didn't like that and booted Mexico out, as well as took more territory for Mexico's trouble. Seems that history has the same general trajectory for eastern Ukraine, just with different actors playing the part of Mexico (in this case the government in Kyiv) and the U.S. (in this case Russia). Complicating things is NATO, which Mexico definitely didn't have when it went to war with the U.S.
But times have changed. Killing people for their territory is no longer an accepted method of expansion by the rest of the world. When a country like Russia does this in the 21st century, they become a pariah state, and with good reason. We don't tolerate actions like this anymore, nor should we.
 
Eva Bartlett is hardly the only journalist who has said that the referendum was fairly done and the Eastern Ukrainians are predominantly eager to join Russia.

Please tell us, what were the referendum results in each region?
 
Well, let me put it this way- if a hostile foreign power (let's say China) aided and abetted communists in Canada and managed to get the Canadian government overthrown and installed a government of their own, then proceeded to wage war with part of the country that didn't go along with what amounted to a coup, do you think the U.S. would stand idly by?

And if, after the U.S. spent 8 years trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement (as if, the U.S. would have started a military operation the day after the coup in Canada, but let's pretend) while around 10,000 Canadians died, a good deal of them American expats, they put boots on the ground in the part of Canada that was not yet controlled by Canada's new communist friendly government and started retaking territory from the communist controlled part, China and others were to put crippling sanctions on the U.S., do you think the U.S. would turn tail or rue the day they decided to help Canada?
Yes, I concede that if the U.S. invaded Canada for the purpose of expanding its territory under the pretext of preventing them from doing business with China, then I would judge this as an unwise thing to do (to put it mildly,) and I would agree that it deserved to be heavily sanctioned by the rest of the world.

And I believe the same applies to Russia. Do you agree?
 
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Juin said:
Tell me something new. Was the elections in Crimea in 2014 at gunpoint? It was also declared illegitimate by the "golden billion".:)

If they are not conducted in a fair and transparent manner, then they are illegitimate.


Is it possible for any elections conducted by Russians to be transparent and illegitimate? The reason I mention this is that we are reaching a certain surreal situation where if a Russian says the world is round the west will denounce that assertion as false.

The "golden billion"* has crafted a profile of Russians in Ukraine out of fantasy. In the delicate hands of the "golden billion" ethnic Russians in Ukraine hate Putin, hate Russia, prefer being minorities under ethnic Ukrainians than part of majority ethnic Russian Russia, believe the eradication of Russian culture and literature by the newly minted ethnic Ukrainian State is salvation for them....

* golden billion is the Russian Dictator's jab at the billion population of the EU and America who have arrogated to themselves the arbiters of global matters. Maybe the Dictator is wrong, but that is how he referred to his nemesis in the west
 
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Juin said:
Tell me something new. Was the elections in Crimea in 2014 at gunpoint? It was also declared illegitimate by the "golden billion".:)




Is it possible for any elections conducted by Russians to be transparent and illegitimate? The reason I mention this is that we are reaching a certain surreal situation where if a Russian says the world is round the west will denounce that assertion as false.

The "golden billion"* has crafted a profile of Russians in Ukraine out of fantasy. In the delicate hands of the "golden billion" ethnic Russians in Ukraine hate Putin, hate Russia, prefer being minorities under ethnic Ukrainians than part of majority ethnic Russian Russia, believe the eradication of Russian culture and literature by the newly minted ethnic Ukrainian State is salvation for them....

* golden billion is the Russian Dictator's jab at the billion population of the EU and America who have arrogated to themselves the arbiters of global matters. Maybe the Dictator is wrong, but that is how he referred to his nemesis in the west
If an election conducted by Russians is not transparent, then no it is not possible for anyone to simply "take their word for it."

If the US hosted a referendum among Russian citizens to vote to join the United States and the U.S. simply declared that 97% of Russians want to join the U.S., would you accept their word that the elections were fair and that Russia is now the property of the U.S.?
 
as usual you (and most others)make these sweeping statement about the "Ukrainian people" when Ukraine has split loyalties
These are pro-Russian (anti-Kyiv actions) - so the referendum just confirms the split loyaltyies seen in the east,southeast & Crimea

The referendums in these various regions were fake.

How can the Putin shills not understand this?

How do they not care?
 
But times have changed.

Times have not changed.


Killing people for their territory is no longer an accepted method of expansion by the rest of the world.

It is ok to kill people for other reasons? I ask because the American Imperium and its Sancho Panza, the United Kingdom are notorious for military campaigns. :)


When a country like Russia does this in the 21st century, they become a pariah state, and with good reason. We don't tolerate actions like this anymore, nor should we.


Why are you excluding the notorious three: US, UK, France?
 
Times have not changed.

It is ok to kill people for other reasons? I ask because the American Imperium and its Sancho Panza, the United Kingdom are notorious for military campaigns. :)

Why are you excluding the notorious three: US, UK, France?
The US, UK, and France haven't done this in modern times. And yes, it is ok to kill people for other reasons. People can be killed in self-defense, for instance. It is not ok to kill people because you want their land and they don't want to give it to you.
 
Is it possible for any elections conducted by Russians to be transparent and illegitimate? The reason I mention this is that we are reaching a certain surreal situation where if a Russian says the world is round the west will denounce that assertion as false.

The reason for this is very simple. Putin and the Russian government lie about nearly everything. Putin and the Russian government are deceitful. They say one thing, and they do another. So, people are reasonably skeptical of things Putin and officials of the Russian government say or write about any topic, especially as it concerns their own actions.

Here's a good example:



Putin is a piece of shit and a liar.

The people who support Putin either don't care that he is a liar or they are dumb as shit.
 
If an election conducted by Russians is not transparent, then no it is not possible for anyone to simply "take their word for it."


Reminds me of the “If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?". Everyone was free back in 2014 to head to Crimea to observe the elections, just as they have been free to go to the Oblasts a few days ago. Many went, not from the chic west. If the west chosed not to observe the elections then I am not sure how it has any grounds for claiming lack of transparency.



If the US hosted a referendum among Russian citizens to vote to join the United States and the U.S. simply declared that 97% of Russians want to join the U.S., would you accept their word that the elections were fair and that Russia is now the property of the U.S.?


Except the Russians didnt simply declare. Anyways, I am not so much arguing that elections cannot be illegitimate; I am challenging the declaration that an election is illegitimate by a party that deliberately chosed not to observe the elections.
 
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Juin said:
Times have not changed.
It is ok to kill people for other reasons? I ask because the American Imperium and its Sancho Panza, the United Kingdom are notorious for military campaigns. :)
Why are you excluding the notorious three: US, UK, France?


The US, UK, and France haven't done this in modern times.

The Iraqi, Syrian, Libyan wars took place in medieval times?


And yes, it is ok to kill people for other reasons. People can be killed in self-defense, for instance. It is not ok to kill people because you want their land and they don't want to give it to you.


You dont have to take their lands. Saxons* dont roll that way.:) The Saxons are much smarter. Just take the oil, or other resources and leave the land alone.


* The Dictator at the Kremlin also took to use of "Saxon"; which tickled me a lot.
 
What if southern California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas put forth a referendum asking the citizens if they would rather be Mexican or American?

Would we be willing to give up all that land if the referendum did not go America's way? Maybe give back 1/2 of California and 1/2 of Texas to Mexico?
 
The reason for this is very simple. Putin and the Russian government lie about nearly everything. Putin and the Russian government are deceitful. They say one thing, and they do another. So, people are reasonably skeptical of things Putin and officials of the Russian government say or write about any topic, especially as it concerns their own actions.


I dont mind open season on Putin and his government. Unfortunately what I am running to these days is an assault on all Russians. All Russians are evil, down to the last babushka. Cooler heads in the west question the call by the mob to penalise even Russians who are not pro Putin, who want to travel. That is abominable. The west never sunk that low during the Cold War.


Here's a good example:
Putin is a piece of shit and a liar.
The people who support Putin either don't care that he is a liar or they are dumb as shit.


Each lie still has to be proven to be so. That is how it is done in what should be an age of enlightenment. I believe it is a False connection to assert that a party is lying on one issue because it is claimed that that party had lied on many other issues. Or worse, to expect an absurd claim should be taken as truth because the party being accused is a liar.

Examples abound. Ukrainians shell Zaporizhia NPP and claim it is actually Russians shelling their own positions. That is thick with absurdity. But the absurdity is asked to stand because since Russians supposedely lie they must lie even when all common sense indicates the Ukrainians are making an absurd claim.

Undersea pipelines built by Russians at the cost of billion of dollars is blown up. The Ukrainians say it is Russians themselves who did it so as to pin it on others. Clearly absurd. But the absurdity is asked to stand because Russians supposedely lie all the time
 
Examples abound. Ukrainians shell Zaporizhia NPP and claim it is actually Russians shelling their own positions.

Just stop it. Stop lying on behalf of Putin. You are making yourself look very silly.

 
All Russians are evil, down to the last babushka.

The reason why people have this opinion is because Russian soldiers keep engaging in evil acts.

So, my advice to you is to tell Russian soldiers to stop being assholes and leave Ukraine. Stop castrating people. Stop murdering civilians in cold blood such as in Bucha and Izyum. Stop murdering POWs. And GTF out of Ukraine. And never come back.

When the Russian soldiers do this, people will stop considering Russians to be evil.

A good starting point is for Russian civilians to stop supporting their government and their military.

If your soldiers go around killing people, don't cry like a little bitch when people start saying bad things about you. It's ridiculous.

It's not that complicated. My advice to Russians is as follows: don't be assholes and people won't think you're an asshole.
 
Reminds me of the “If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?". Everyone was free back in 2014 to head to Crimea to observe the elections, just as they have been free to go to the Oblasts a few days ago. Many went, not from the chic west. If the west chosed not to observe the elections then I am not sure how it has any grounds for claiming lack of transparency.
the west desperately does not want to give any credence to the fact those 4 oblasts are closer to Russia
in terms of Crimea and Russian economy/lingua franca

I do criticize the invasion-why i dont support it -since Putin should have just carved these out instead of inflicting pain over the rest of Ukraine. Russia,Ukraine,and the west would be better off if Putin hadn't tried to swallow the whole of Ukraine.

But other then that Biden (leading the west) has escalated the war so it's now about "U.S. national security" because of nukes
Biden/Blinken have 0 credibility they didnt blow up the pipeline when we have it on record unambiguously promised to do so

Speaking to reporters on February 7, Biden said: "If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again,
there will no longer be a Nord Stream 2."

"We will bring an end to it," the president said. A journalist asked Biden how he could do that since Germany was in control

of the project, the president replied: "I promise you: We will be able to do it."
 
the west desperately does not want to give any credence to the fact those 4 oblasts are closer to Russia
in terms of Crimea and Russian economy/lingua franca

I do criticize the invasion-why i dont support it -since Putin should have just carved these out instead of inflicting pain over the rest of Ukraine. Russia,Ukraine,and the west would be better off if Putin hadn't tried to swallow the whole of Ukraine.

But other then that Biden (leading the west) has escalated the war so it's now about "U.S. national security" because of nukes
Biden/Blinken have 0 credibility they didnt blow up the pipeline when we have it on record unambiguously promised to do so

Speaking to reporters on February 7, Biden said: "If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again,
there will no longer be a Nord Stream 2."

"We will bring an end to it," the president said. A journalist asked Biden how he could do that since Germany was in control

of the project, the president replied: "I promise you: We will be able to do it."
You are the west.
 
You are the west.
newsflash!
doesn't mean I can't criticize the needless escalation .utter lack of facilitating peace (Turkey did much more) avenues
and of course all the stupid sanctions+militarization of Ukraine into a defcto NATO state that got us here:eek:
 
newsflash!
doesn't mean I can't criticize the needless escalation .utter lack of facilitating peace (Turkey did much more) avenues
and of course all the stupid sanctions+militarization of Ukraine into a defcto NATO state that got us here:eek:


What did Turkey do??? Lol

He spoke to Putin what two weeks ago and said that Putin was interested in a talks etc. then the literally maybe the next day Putin announced these “referendums”
 
What did Turkey do??? Lol

He spoke to Putin what two weeks ago and said that Putin was interested in a talks etc. then the literally maybe the next day Putin announced these “referendums”
Turkey also held some preliminary meeting early in the war.
Which is much more then the warmongering USA ever did .

We didn't participate in Syrian peace talks either -those were led by Russia
 
Just stop it. Stop lying on behalf of Putin. You are making yourself look very silly.





Oh, I forgot, you were at the Zaporizhia NPP. Your certainty is out of this world. I will ascribe such degree of certainty only to supernaturals. I am definitely not impressed
 
the west desperately does not want to give any credence to the fact those 4 oblasts are closer to Russia
in terms of Crimea and Russian economy/lingua franca


The fact of the matter is that the sentiments in Crimea back in 2014 could be guaged aside from the formal referendum. Western polling agencies do poll Russians. And at that time the consensus was that the Crimeans overwhelmingly wanted integration with Russia. Only folks so chronic in their Russophobia still cling to the notion they know better what Russians in Ukraine want better than the ethnic Russians themselves.


I do criticize the invasion-why i dont support it -since Putin should have just carved these out instead of inflicting pain over the rest of Ukraine. Russia,Ukraine,and the west would be better off if Putin hadn't tried to swallow the whole of Ukraine.


I know that. We went through all that. I myself opined over and over that trading the German cash cow for the endless problems of Ukraine was a poor trade indeed.
 
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Juin said:
All Russians are evil, down to the last babushka.

The reason why people have this opinion is because Russian soldiers keep engaging in evil acts.

Like setting on fire a building full of pro Russians in Odessa back in 2014? You tap danced over that atrocity when it was pointed out to you.


So, my advice to you is to tell Russian soldiers to stop being assholes and leave Ukraine. Stop castrating people. Stop murdering civilians in cold blood such as in Bucha and Izyum. Stop murdering POWs. And GTF out of Ukraine. And never come back.


For a moment I thought you were talking about the Nazist Azov Battalion. I notice that when it comes to the Nazis of the Azov Battalion pro Kyiv folks bend over backwards to explain them away


When the Russian soldiers do this, people will stop considering Russians to be evil.
A good starting point is for Russian civilians to stop supporting their government and their military.
If your soldiers go around killing people, don't cry like a little bitch when people start saying bad things about you. It's ridiculous.
It's not that complicated. My advice to Russians is as follows: don't be assholes and people won't think you're an asshole.


Hate Russians all you want.
 
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