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Journalist Eva Bartlett interviews DPR Civilians on referendum to join Russia

reinaert

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hysterical.you can find all kinds of propaganda and justifications for backing parties in war.
(ex.) we backed the Syrian rebels (FSA types) because the jihadist ( al-Nusra and affiliates) were committing atrocities
Turns out that was a bad idea. As is backing Kyiv's imposition of authority over a populace that doesnt want to be under their yoke

It's clear Ukraine has split loyalities, the referendum is just further confirmation -so why are we supplying arms,logistics and training to an extension of the population that doesnt want to be under their control?
You think the eighteen year old girl with no English and her broken-hearted grandmother are hysterical?

Your Putin love is worse than anyone could have imagined.
 

anatta

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You think the eighteen year old girl with no English and her broken-hearted grandmother are hysterical?

Your Putin love is worse than anyone could have imagined.
no i think your "reasoning" is based on histrionic hate for Putin-especially since you can't refute Ukraine's split loyalties
So you crank up the morality play -which is a terrible manner to decide war policy
 

Fledermaus

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hysterical.you can find all kinds of propaganda and justifications for backing parties in war.
(ex.) we backed the Syrian rebels (FSA types) because the jihadist ( al-Nusra and affiliates) were committing atrocities
Turns out that was a bad idea. As is backing Kyiv's imposition of authority over a populace that doesnt want to be under their yoke

It's clear Ukraine has split loyalities, the referendum is just further confirmation -so why are we supplying arms,logistics and training to an extension of the population that doesnt want to be under their control?
We supported faction A because faction B committed atrocities?


Dafuq?
 

reinaert

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no i think your "reasoning" is based on histrionic hate for Putin-especially since you can't refute Ukraine's split loyalties
So you crank up the morality play -which is a terrible manner to decide war policy
No, bub. My point is you're a Putinist with no skin in the game, so of course you can be cavalier about a military invasion with widespread rape, torture, castration and death squads.
 

Fledermaus

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I'm sure the UK said much the same when America was drafting its constitution. Did you agree with them too? One should always remember that what is right should always take precedence over what a given government, or group of governments decides is against their laws. As journalist and science fiction author once said:

"Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"

Slavery was acceptable as was colonialism during that time. Land acquisition via conquest as well. Women as chattel slaves.

Things have changed since then everywhere but Russia where land acquisition via conquest is excused with illegal referendum.

9138th Meeting (PM)

SC/15039

27 September 2022

So-Called Referenda during Armed Conflict in Ukraine ‘Illegal’, Not Expression of Popular Will, United Nations Political Affairs Chief Tells Security Council​


Delegates Condemn ‘Sham’ Annexation Polls by Russian Federation in Occupied Ukraine Territories, Call for Resumption of Peace Talks​

The so-called “referenda” conducted by de facto authorities in the Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions of Ukraine have been held during active armed conflict in the country and cannot be called a genuine expression of the popular will, the United Nations senior political and peacebuilding official told the Security Council today, as members condemned the Russian Federation’s “sham referenda”, while others called for a return to peace talks.

 

anatta

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No, bub. My point is you're a Putinist with no skin in the game, so of course you can be cavalier about a military invasion with widespread rape, torture, castration and death squads.
your point is the usual hysterical driven fear mongering.
But now we are playing nuclear brinksmanship -and that requires cool heads-instead of basing policies by hysteria
 

Fledermaus

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To your question, some people in forums I have been in have. They say Russia put boots on the ground in Ukraine for its resources, for instance. The term invasion has other negative connotations as well, such as to conquer a place:

As to your second sentence, plenty of evidence that's not true. Here's 2 articles with said evidence:
<SNIPPED SHILL SPEAK>

There are others as well.

It is an invasion.
 

anatta

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We supported faction A because faction B committed atrocities?
Dafuq?
do you get the factions of the Syrian war? The jihadists were the strongest hand -and the best way to go after Assad was backing them
But we wound up backing the "non-secularists"-which were weak and fled in battle - leaving their caches for the jihadists
 

Fledermaus

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your point is the usual hysterical driven fear mongering.
But now we are playing nuclear brinksmanship -and that requires cool heads-instead of basing policies by hysteria

Russia invaded. There is no "hysterical driven fear mongering" about Russia invading.

They have invaded Ukraine in 2014 in order to gain territory and are again invading in 2022 in order to gain territory.

You babble about Russiaphobia and hysterics while refusing to understand the fear of Russia is anything but irrational.
 

Fledermaus

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do you get the factions of the Syrian war? The jihadists were the strongest hand -and the best way to go after Assad was backing them
But we wound up backing the "non-secularists"-which were weak and fled in battle - leaving their caches for the jihadists

Yes. We backed a weaker hand because we don't back Jihadists..... And Assad was fighting, not backing, Jihadists.

All irrelevant whataboutism anyway.
 

anatta

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Yes. We backed a weaker hand because we don't back Jihadists..... And Assad was fighting, not backing, Jihadists.

All irrelevant whataboutism anyway.
you misread. the lesson is stay out of it - it makes no difference tothe USA what happens in Ukraine -despite the hysteria-
and the populace is against Kyiv domination in the areas of the 4 oblasts as well

It's in our national interest NOT to be in a game of nuclear brinksmanship over such.
That has long been my point...getting into war against Russia over Ukraine is insane
The Russiaphobic crowd blows right past this blowback
 

W_Heisenberg

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Not sure about that, but even if true, Eva Bartlett is hardly the only journalist who has said that the referendum was fairly done and the Eastern Ukrainians are predominantly eager to join Russia. ''

Eva Barlett is being paid by the Russian government to say that.

Former American soldier and current American journalist Patrick Lancaster has done videos saying the same

Patrick Lancaster is being paid by the Russian government to say that.

You are being lied to.

You are falling victim to Russian propaganda.
 

Fledermaus

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you misread. the lesson is stay out of it - it makes no difference tothe USA what happens in Ukraine -despite the hysteria-
and the populace is against Kyiv domination in the areas of the 4 oblasts as well

It's in our national interest NOT to be in a game of nuclear brinksmanship over such.
That has long been my point...getting into war against Russia over Ukraine is insane
The Russiaphobic crowd blows right past this blowback

Putin is driving the nuclear brinksmanship train. He has from the beginning.

We are not at war with Russia. Ukraine is.

Bleating "Russiaphobia" over and over again is simply ignorant at this point.
 

watsup

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Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**


Putin propaganda.
 

mrjurrs

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Unless it is Nato/Eu doing the annexation or dismemberment
Example of NATO or the EU annexing part of a sovereign country?
 

Juin

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How's your @anatta Ukrainian, bub? You got people in Ukraine? You want to meet the 'Russian-speaking' Ukrainian family (women only; the men were all kidnapped by gangsters and pressed into arms) from the Donbas staying three miles down the road with good friends, because the Russian 'liberators' are in fact raping, castrating, child-torturing beasts whose human provenance masks an inhuman monstrousness? Or do want to keep nattering on about Vlad ****ing Putin's side of things, like a good little gangster's shill?


Actually the local ethnic Russian speaking populations can speak for themselves. And they do speak out. And their accounts do not back your fabrications.


My standing offer to all Putinists applies to you: I will pay for your passage to Kazan.

Methinks thou doeth protesteth too much. :)
 

Juin

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Juin said:
Was the Pax Romana not international law? That was more than a millenia ago.

No. Pax Romana is considered the golden age of Roman imperialism.

Rome was the Law. And that Law governed international matters at the time. Maybe Roman Law had no input from other partners, but it was nevertheless the Law. The post I was only objecting to the claim that international law is only two to three centuries old.


Modern international law developed out of Renaissance Europe.


Correct. Or I agree. But the poster did not qualify himself, he made mention of international law, which is more than the specific modern international law
 

Juin

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as usual you (and most others)make these sweeping statement about the "Ukrainian people" when Ukraine has split loyalties
These are pro-Russian (anti-Kyiv actions) - so the referendum just confirms the split loyaltyies seen in the east,southeast & Crimea


Exactly!
 

reinaert

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Actually the local ethnic Russian speaking populations can speak for themselves. And they do speak out. And their accounts do not back your fabrications.




Methinks thou doeth protesteth too much. :)
I think a Brothers of Italy, Swedish fascists, Putin and Orban supporting authoritarian lacks the credibility to do much other than shame-fap in public, drenched in his own tears.
 

lwf

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nothing is ever legit according to the west. regardless the referendums reflect the popular support for Russia in the east
and along the southern oblasts. as is well understood
That's the point. They do not reflect popular support. A referendum reflects nothing when it is overseen by an occupying military force other than the will of said force. Russia has legitimate claim to these areas to the same degree that NATO has claim to Russian territory. Simply declaring it doesn't make it so.
 

Geoist

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Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**


Even Saddam Hussein's ghost is laughing at the voting differential of that 'referendum.'
 
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