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Journalist Eva Bartlett interviews DPR Civilians on referendum to join Russia

Juin

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Propaganda bullshit, Putin will roast in hell.


After a fair trial. Not by the kangaroo courts that the western media has been running. :)
 

Fledermaus

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Its actually a no brainer. Russophobia- not just hatred for Putin, I am talking about hatred of Russians- is so chronic that it is not funny. And it shows in exchanges.

You easily run into statements like 'Ukrainians are united against the Russians'. You then have to point out that actually Ukraine is a fractured society; then it is acknowledged as an after thought. But only to pop up again down the road.

You will be surprised the amount of people who seriously believe Ukrainians use artillery different from Russians. Post all the videos of Ukrainian artillery raining down hell on separatist Donetsk City, it is dismissed as Russian propaganda.

And it gets delicious. Russians in Ukraine dont want to be liberated by Russians! They are happy being minorities under a Kyiv regime that is as Russophobic as you can get.

Referendums in territory occupied by foreign military are illegal.
 

Fledermaus

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nothing is ever legit according to the west. regardless the referendums reflect the popular support for Russia in the east
and along the southern oblasts. as is well understood

More garbage talk.

Referendums under military occupation are illegitimate. Russia militarily occupies those territories.


Meetings Coverage

9138th Meeting (PM)

SC/15039

27 September 2022

So-Called Referenda during Armed Conflict in Ukraine ‘Illegal’, Not Expression of Popular Will, United Nations Political Affairs Chief Tells Security Council​


Delegates Condemn ‘Sham’ Annexation Polls by Russian Federation in Occupied Ukraine Territories, Call for Resumption of Peace Talks​

The so-called “referenda” conducted by de facto authorities in the Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions of Ukraine have been held during active armed conflict in the country and cannot be called a genuine expression of the popular will, the United Nations senior political and peacebuilding official told the Security Council today, as members condemned the Russian Federation’s “sham referenda”, while others called for a return to peace talks.

 

Fledermaus

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For starters, I don't consider Russia's military operation in Ukraine to be an invasion, at least not in the sense that it's usually understood, that is to plunder the place. I made a thread about this here:


As to why I am sympathetic to Russia's stance in regards to the Ukraine war, I should say that I wasn't originally. At first, I wasn't sure what to think. But the more I read on the whole affair, the more I came to believe that Russia had a lot of good reasons for getting involved in the Ukraine war, a war that actually started as a civil war 8 years ago.

Who stated the intent was to plunder the place?

And the civil war is of Russia's making.
 

NolanVoyd

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Not sure about that, but even if true, Eva Bartlett is hardly the only journalist who has said that the referendum was fairly done and the Eastern Ukrainians are predominantly eager to join Russia. Former American soldier and current American journalist Patrick Lancaster has done videos saying the same:


The referendum was in violation of international law.
 

phoenyx

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For starters, the Donbass republics requested Russia's aid in defending itself prior to Russia starting its military operation in Ukraine. Now, I will grant that Russia has gone beyond the borders of what the Donbass republics held prior to Russia putting boots on the ground in Ukraine, but, at least in so far as the Donbass Republics' referendums, there is a difference between a country going to a place by force and going there by invitation.
They were not invited by Ukraine.
I never claimed Ukraine had invited them. I was referring to the Donbass Republics:
Same damned thing.

Not sure what you are referring to as the 'same thing'.
 

phoenyx

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The referendum was in violation of international law.

I'm sure the UK said much the same when America was drafting its constitution. Did you agree with them too? One should always remember that what is right should always take precedence over what a given government, or group of governments decides is against their laws. As journalist and science fiction author once said:

"Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"
 

phoenyx

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For starters, I don't consider Russia's military operation in Ukraine to be an invasion, at least not in the sense that it's usually understood, that is to plunder the place. I made a thread about this here:


As to why I am sympathetic to Russia's stance in regards to the Ukraine war, I should say that I wasn't originally. At first, I wasn't sure what to think. But the more I read on the whole affair, the more I came to believe that Russia had a lot of good reasons for getting involved in the Ukraine war, a war that actually started as a civil war 8 years ago.
Who stated the intent was to plunder the place?

And the civil war is of Russia's making.

To your question, some people in forums I have been in have. They say Russia put boots on the ground in Ukraine for its resources, for instance. The term invasion has other negative connotations as well, such as to conquer a place:

As to your second sentence, plenty of evidence that's not true. Here's 2 articles with said evidence:



There are others as well.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Eva Bartlett the pro kremlin puppet.

Like I said in another thread you're not fooling anyone.
Rational people tend to be on the side that is morally right.
 

phoenyx

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No comprede Casus Belli?

The are one on a short list of players.

Why would the US do it,?

Here's the final 3 paragraphs on an article on the subject:

**
So the offer is there to return normal gas supplies to Europe if the sanctions are lifted. With the war having passed into its most dangerous phase, there is a growing urgency to stop the war, including talk of a Saudi-led peace process in which Ukraine would cede territory to Russia in exchange for peace.

If momentum grows for a peace deal of any kind it would ruin Washington’s long-term plans to weaken Russia. It would mean Nord Stream 2 would reopen, which would help Germany and Russia, but crush U.S. aims at regime change and making Europe dependent on U.S. energy.

“I promise you, we will be able” to shut down Nord Stream 2, Biden vowed. But how would the U.S. do that if Germany became poised to reopen it?
**

Source:
 

phoenyx

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There are Americans being detained and mistreated in Russia who have requested the aid of the United States.

Does this justify invasion?

It's a matter of scale and geography. This whole situation is a lot more like the Republic of Texas, that voted to join the U.S., even though it had originally been Mexican territory. The U.S. accepted what amounted to the Republic of Texas' request, Mexico didn't like it and went to war with Texas, the U.S. didn't like that and booted Mexico out, as well as took more territory for Mexico's trouble. Seems that history has the same general trajectory for eastern Ukraine, just with different actors playing the part of Mexico (in this case the government in Kyiv) and the U.S. (in this case Russia). Complicating things is NATO, which Mexico definitely didn't have when it went to war with the U.S.
 

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Do you think getting involved was worth sacrificing the Russian economy to crippling sanctions? Sanctions, by the way, which would remain firmly in place and possibly escalate even if Ukraine were to surrender unconditionally? Not to mention revealing the weakness of the Russian military to the rest of the world, and killing thousands of Russian boys?

You might agree with Russia's reasons to get involved. But do you think that they were wise to do so?

Well, let me put it this way- if a hostile foreign power (let's say China) aided and abetted communists in Canada and managed to get the Canadian government overthrown and installed a government of their own, then proceeded to wage war with part of the country that didn't go along with what amounted to a coup, do you think the U.S. would stand idly by?

And if, after the U.S. spent 8 years trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement (as if, the U.S. would have started a military operation the day after the coup in Canada, but let's pretend) while around 10,000 Canadians died, a good deal of them American expats, they put boots on the ground in the part of Canada that was not yet controlled by Canada's new communist friendly government and started retaking territory from the communist controlled part, China and others were to put crippling sanctions on the U.S., do you think the U.S. would turn tail or rue the day they decided to help Canada?
 
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Juks

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Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**

First you need to ask yourself: Who is voting? 80% of the residents has fleed the areas due to the war. Another unknown numbers of people are missing, presumabe being forcibly displaced (or killed) Then, one Russian propagandanist interview someone that says it is okay. Eva Bartlett is an American Canadian activist, commentator, and blogger who has propagated conspiracy theories in connection to the Syrian civil war, most notably the disproven allegation that the White Helmets stage rescues and "recycle" children in its videos.

Instead you should read this:


I can assure you, that if I was living in those areas at this time I would vote yes to Russia, what choice would I have? Death? Torture?

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter... under wartime conditions, it is forbidden to hold elections, amend legislation or the Constitution, or conduct referendums.
 

Juks

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Unless it is Nato/Eu doing the annexation or dismemberment
Please give me an example (in modern time....)
 

phoenyx

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First you need to ask yourself: Who is voting? 80% of the residents has fleed the areas due to the war.

Where did you get that statistic? Even if true, the followup question should be, where did they flee too? I did a bit of research right now. Apparently, Russia has taken in more Ukrainian refugees than any other country, with over 1.4 million refugees taken in. Poland comes second at almost 1.2 million refugees:

 

Juks

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Where did you get that statistic? Even if true, the followup question should be, where did they flee too? I did a bit of research right now. Apparently, Russia has taken in more Ukrainian refugees than any other country, with over 1.4 million refugees taken in. Poland comes second at almost 1.2 million refugees:

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter... under wartime conditions, it is forbidden to hold elections, amend legislation or the Constitution, or conduct referendums.
 

Juks

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Kosovo comes to mind:

Kosovo is an independent state. It is not a member of neither NATO nor the EU. It was the ethnic cleansing that made NATO intervene. NATO carried out a kind of emergency defense to stop an ongoing genocide. There has been no annexation into any European country, nor has there been any referendum or elections organized by the western countries.

But maybe you are al for genocides (as long as you are not in the target group yourself)?
 

Rogue Valley

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“Any annexation of a state’s territory by another state resulting from a threat or use of force is a violation of the U.N. Charter and of international law.” -- United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres on 9/22/22.
 
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