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Journalist Eva Bartlett interviews DPR Civilians on referendum to join Russia

phoenyx

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For starters, the Donbass republics requested Russia's aid in defending itself prior to Russia starting its military operation in Ukraine. Now, I will grant that Russia has gone beyond the borders of what the Donbass republics held prior to Russia putting boots on the ground in Ukraine, but, at least in so far as the Donbass Republics' referendums, there is a difference between a country going to a place by force and going there by invitation.

Secondly, illegal according to whom? Thirdly, I don't see anyone decrying the elections held in Afghanistan or Iraq when the U.S. was occupying those countries. Forthly, the most important thing isn't that someone's law is being broken, but what is the best thing to do in a given situation. As journalist and science fiction author Frank Herbert once wrote:

"Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"
They were not invited by Ukraine.

I never claimed Ukraine had invited them. I was referring to the Donbass Republics:

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If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21.

That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them.

The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance.
**

Source:

If the Northwest Territories invited Russia in would Canada lose its territorial sovereignty?

A better example would be the Province of Quebec. Quebec actually had not one, but 2 referendums to leave Canada. Fortunately for Canada, more Quebecers preferred to stay in Canada then leave it:



There are good reasons for this. One is that Canada has always respected Quebec's language rights. Compare the Ukrainian government that took power after Euromaidan, which tried to diminish the role of the Russian language the very day after they took power:

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On the night of 22 February activists of Euromaidan seized the government quarter[367] left by law enforcement authorities and made a number of new demands—in particular, immediate resignation of the president Yanukovych.[368] Earlier that day, they stormed into Yanukovych's mansion.[369]

On 23 February 2014, following the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, the Rada passed a bill that would have altered the law on languages of minorities, including Russian. The bill would have made Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels.[370] However, on the next week 1 March, President Turchynov vetoed the bill.[371]
**

Source:

If only the Euromaidan crew had learned from that experience, which led to things such as the Donbass rebellion. But no, they continued to push to alter the language law, finally doing so in 2019:

 

Gateman_Wen

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Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

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Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**

Where are you posting from?
 

lwf

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Mexico. I'm Canadian-Mexican and have been staying in Mexico for some time now.
So why are you supporting Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
 

phoenyx

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So why are you supporting Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

For starters, I don't consider Russia's military operation in Ukraine to be an invasion, at least not in the sense that it's usually understood, that is to plunder the place. I made a thread about this here:


As to why I am sympathetic to Russia's stance in regards to the Ukraine war, I should say that I wasn't originally. At first, I wasn't sure what to think. But the more I read on the whole affair, the more I came to believe that Russia had a lot of good reasons for getting involved in the Ukraine war, a war that actually started as a civil war 8 years ago.
 

lwf

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For starters, I don't consider Russia's military operation in Ukraine to be an invasion, at least not in the sense that it's usually understood, that is to plunder the place. I made a thread about this here:


As to why I am sympathetic to Russia's stance in regards to the Ukraine war, I should say that I wasn't originally. At first, I wasn't sure what to think. But the more I read on the whole affair, the more I came to believe that Russia had a lot of good reasons for getting involved in the Ukraine war, a war that actually started as a civil war 8 years ago.
Do you think getting involved was worth sacrificing the Russian economy to crippling sanctions? Sanctions, by the way, which would remain firmly in place and possibly escalate even if Ukraine were to surrender unconditionally? Not to mention revealing the weakness of the Russian military to the rest of the world, and killing thousands of Russian boys?

You might agree with Russia's reasons to get involved. But do you think that they were wise to do so?
 

anatta

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Your premise is false. The Donbass republics did not request Russia's aid in defending itself. This is a false assertion that Putin is using to justify an invasion for territorial expansion.
Donbas regions ( Russian separatists) have been warring with Kyiv’s army since 2014.
They have request all kinds of aid from Russia - lots
 

lwf

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Donbas regions ( Russian separatists) have been warring with Kyiv’s army since 2014.
They have request all kinds of aid from Russia - lots
There are Americans being detained and mistreated in Russia who have requested the aid of the United States.

Does this justify invasion?
 

anatta

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There are Americans being detained and mistreated in Russia who have requested the aid of the United States.
Does this justify invasion?
I am only correcting your disinformation here. I dont have time to debate other then to say the Russian separatists also have much local popular support. Which was reflected in the referendums
 

lwf

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I am only correcting your disinformation here. I dont have time to debate other then to say the Russian separatists also have much local popular support. Which was reflected in the referendums
The referendums were not legitimate. Elections at gunpoint are not fair elections.
 

beefheart

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Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**

Propaganda bullshit, Putin will roast in hell.
 

anatta

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The referendums were not legitimate. Elections at gunpoint are not fair elections.
nothing is ever legit according to the west. regardless the referendums reflect the popular support for Russia in the east
and along the southern oblasts. as is well understood
 

Juin

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Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...
Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).


Its actually a no brainer. Russophobia- not just hatred for Putin, I am talking about hatred of Russians- is so chronic that it is not funny. And it shows in exchanges.

You easily run into statements like 'Ukrainians are united against the Russians'. You then have to point out that actually Ukraine is a fractured society; then it is acknowledged as an after thought. But only to pop up again down the road.

You will be surprised the amount of people who seriously believe Ukrainians use artillery different from Russians. Post all the videos of Ukrainian artillery raining down hell on separatist Donetsk City, it is dismissed as Russian propaganda.

And it gets delicious. Russians in Ukraine dont want to be liberated by Russians! They are happy being minorities under a Kyiv regime that is as Russophobic as you can get.
 

Juin

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Doesn't matter if true. Annexation of another country is contrary to international law.


Unless it is Nato/Eu doing the annexation or dismemberment
 

anatta

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Its actually a no brainer. Russophobia- not just hatred for Putin, I am talking about hatred of Russians- is so chronic that it is not funny. And it shows in exchanges.

You easily run into statements like 'Ukrainians are united against the Russians'. You then have to point out that actually Ukraine is a fractured society; then it is acknowledged as an after thought. But only to pop up again down the road.

You will be surprised the amount of people who seriously believe Ukrainians use artillery different from Russians. Post all the videos of Ukrainian artillery raining down hell on separatist Donetsk City, it is dismissed as Russian propaganda.

And it gets delicious. Russians in Ukraine dont want to be liberated by Russians! They are happy being minorities under a Kyiv regime that is as Russophobic as you can get.
DA RUSSIANS! *it works every time* now DA RUSSIANS are blamed for blowing up their own pipeline??? what??
 

Juin

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DA RUSSIANS! *it works every time* now DA RUSSIANS are blamed for blowing up their own pipeline??? what??


And it is argued with all seriousness! Even though I dont know anyone in the forum who will understand it if the US blew up billions of dollars worth of US infrastructure so as to pin it on Russians! Crazy
 

anatta

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And it is argued with all seriousness! Even though I dont know anyone in the forum who will understand it if the US blew up billions of dollars worth of US infrastructure so as to pin it on Russians! Crazy
it doesnt have to stand up to any logic..just blame DA RUSSIANS- works every time
 

Juin

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The referendums were not legitimate. Elections at gunpoint are not fair elections.


Tell me something new. Was the elections in Crimea in 2014 at gunpoint? It was also declared illegitimate by the "golden billion".:)
 

Juin

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it doesnt have to stand up to any logic..just blame DA RUSSIANS- works every time


It works like magic. Everytime.

You recall the POW camp in Donetsk that was hit by artillery? Of course it was hit by incoming from the Ukrainians outside Donetsk. It was blamed on the Russians. The Russians supposedely rained artillery on their own POW camp.

And the shelling of the Zaporhizhia nuclear power plant? The Russians were supposed to have shelled their own positions

The list is long
 
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