Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions. [W:266,392]

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

I don't think you fully understand the events that occurred back then. It's not that simple.

Yes it is that simple Stalin was the 2nd greatest mass murderer in history. There is no way to white wash that.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

So nothing about him killing his own people in the millions just complaints about a military action?
Not even close but if it makes you feel better to think that Churchill was anything like Stalin when it comes to evil mass murderers go ahead

Does pointing out a truth always bother you ? None of them are saints.

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Does pointing out a truth always bother you ? None of them are saints.

Never said they were,
Stalin was the 2nd greatest mass murderer in history why does that bother you?

 

[Fisher]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Never said they were,
Stalin was the 2nd greatest mass murderer in history why does that bother you?

It doesn't bother me that he was or that you said it. Just pointing out that to rise to power, you are going to have dirt/blood on your hands.

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

It doesn't bother me that he was or that you said it. Just pointing out that to rise to power, you are going to have dirt/blood on your hands.

Churchill came to power in a democracy, Stalin seized power by force. There is a huge difference

 

[Fisher]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Churchill came to power in a democracy, Stalin seized power by force. There is a huge difference

Perhaps to you, but I don't rationalize people being killed in the name of democracy as being a better death than people killed in the name of communism, Marxism, or religion.

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Perhaps to you, but I don't rationalize people being killed in the name of democracy as being a better death than people killed in the name of communism, Marxism, or religion.

One was to secure power for the dictator the other was to ensure liberty for all.

 

[Fisher]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

One was to secure power for the dictator the other was to ensure liberty for all.

And the people killed are just as dead.....not that I buy that liberty for all nonsense........

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

And the people killed are just as dead.....not that I buy that liberty for all nonsense........

So you couldn't care less if you lived in a dictatorship where even your right to life is not guaranteed if you displease the ruler.
Ok you messed up

 

[Fisher]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

So you couldn't care less if you lived in a dictatorship where even your right to life is not guaranteed if you displease the ruler.
Ok you messed up

Do you think that you actually have more power in a democracy than you would in a dictatorship? You are ruled over by someone either way.

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Do you think that you actually have more power in a democracy than you would in a dictatorship? You are ruled over by someone either way.

Democracies don't generally kill those who disagree with the govt and you have the chance to change who is in power.
If you think a democracy and a dictatorship is the same then you really have no clue

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Abiogenesis is an extremely interesting area of science with multiple competing theories about what specific process resulted in the creation of organic molecules from inorganic compounds and is by no means a 'solved' area of science. The most famous initial experiments were those conducted by Miller-Urey which attempted to test some of the hypothesis put forth by Oparin and Haldane (a British geneticist) so I'm not sure how you can claim that the West or the US was unwilling to engage scientific theories put forth from Soviet scientists.

Edit: You also massively exaggerate the attention given to Lamarckism by the present day scientific community. The study of epigenetics while fascinating and certainly applicable to agriculture is not a validation of Lysenko who would still be wrong even if elements of Lamarckian inheritance were substantiated.

Putting Oparin and Coacervates aside, what elements of Lysenko are you referring to? I need more information.


My point was never to say that the present scientific community accepts Lamarck. I provide studies and videos showing how their is good work being done on it. But, a accepting is far in the U.S.

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Again it leads to other stuff.
Look don't get me wrong I think Russian scientists have made great contributions to the world.
I only have 2 problems with your comments
1. that it was due to Marxism
2. that they are superior to scientist elsewhere

Marxism is not just an economic system. Dialectical materialism has influence some of the science I included like Oparin and Lysenko. Marxist theory of discovery emphasis, purpose. reorganization, interaction with the material. However, the west believes that discovery arrives from induction or/and deduction. Or a "lucky" choice on the hypothesis.

Its very hard to find evidence that any other culture and time period was better than the science 75 years before the revolution and during the USSR.

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Marxism is not just an economic system. Dialectical materialism has influence some of the science I included like Oparin and Lysenko. Marxist theory of discovery emphasis, purpose. reorganization, interaction with the material. However, the west believes that discovery arrives from induction or/and deduction. Or a "lucky" choice on the hypothesis.

Its very hard to find evidence that any other culture and time period was better than the science 75 years before the revolution and during the USSR.

Aside from you not having provided any proof whatsoever on that why would Marxist science be superior if we are talking 75 years before it even existed?

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Aside from you not having provided any proof whatsoever on that why would Marxist science be superior if we are talking 75 years before it even existed?

The influence of the Marxist theoretical concept of dialectical materialism, part of the Communist Party's official interpretation of Marxism, fit Oparin's definition of life as 'a flow, an exchange, a dialectical unity'. This notion was enforced by Oparin's association with Lysenko.[5]

Alexander Oparin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Because Marxist ideology is similar to Russian ideology.Both embedded within aristotle theory.

So fundamental is this idea to dialectics that Marx and Engels considered motion to be the most basic characteristic of matter. As in so many cases, this dialectical notion was already anticipated by Aristotle, who wrote: "Therefore…the primary and proper meaning of ‘nature’ is the essence of things which have in themselves…the principle of motion." (22) This is not the mechanical conception of motion as something imparted to an inert mass by an external "force" but an entirely different notion of matter as self-moving. For them, matter and motion (energy) were one and the same thing, two ways of expressing the same idea. This idea was brilliantly confirmed by Einstein’s theory of the equivalence of mass and energy. This is how Engels expresses it:


Dialectical Materialism


"

Molecular Evolution: Prebiological and Biological - Google Books

 

[Ray410]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

One technology in which Russia has excelled and certainly transferred an enormous amount of that technology to the United States, particularly in our schools, is Revisionist History.

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

The influence of the Marxist theoretical concept of dialectical materialism, part of the Communist Party's official interpretation of Marxism, fit Oparin's definition of life as 'a flow, an exchange, a dialectical unity'. This notion was enforced by Oparin's association with Lysenko.[5]

Alexander Oparin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Because Marxist ideology is similar to Russian ideology.Both embedded within aristotle theory.

So fundamental is this idea to dialectics that Marx and Engels considered motion to be the most basic characteristic of matter. As in so many cases, this dialectical notion was already anticipated by Aristotle, who wrote: "Therefore…the primary and proper meaning of ‘nature’ is the essence of things which have in themselves…the principle of motion." (22) This is not the mechanical conception of motion as something imparted to an inert mass by an external "force" but an entirely different notion of matter as self-moving. For them, matter and motion (energy) were one and the same thing, two ways of expressing the same idea. This idea was brilliantly confirmed by Einstein’s theory of the equivalence of mass and energy. This is how Engels expresses it:


Dialectical Materialism


"

Molecular Evolution: Prebiological and Biological - Google Books

Still don't see how that confirms anything you said about Russian science being superior, or how for 75 years before the soviet union you can claim Marxist scientists in Russia.
If anything your posts seems to say they are just following Aristotle.

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

One technology in which Russia has excelled and certainly transferred an enormous amount of that technology to the United States, particularly in our schools, is Revisionist History.

I don't know much about it. Feel free to say more.

 

[Mr X]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

F**k Stalin. He did more harm to the image of socialism and turn people off the idea than anyone.

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Still don't see how that confirms anything you said about Russian science being superior, or how for 75 years before the soviet union you can claim Marxist scientists in Russia.
If anything your posts seems to say they are just following Aristotle.

Dialectical Materialism is based on aristotle, by its definition of fluid. No, russian science and arts(Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy) formed a culture that could have accepted marxism. No, russian ideology is very similar to marxist ideology, by the russian accepting some of the oriental characteristics and Dialectics . Here is a list of Russian scientist that before were important before the revolution.

Dmitri Mendeleev

Ivan Pavlov

Vladimir Vernadsky


Ivan Vladimirovich Michurin

 

[DDD]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Marxism is not just an economic system. Dialectical materialism has influence some of the science I included like Oparin and Lysenko. Marxist theory of discovery emphasis, purpose. reorganization, interaction with the material. However, the west believes that discovery arrives from induction or/and deduction. Or a "lucky" choice on the hypothesis.

What alternative means does Marxist dialectical materialism offers to discovery compared to deduction, induction, and probability testing of hypothesis?

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

F**k Stalin. He did more harm to the image of socialism and turn people off the idea than anyone.

Wow....take it easy. I think it has to do with propaganda versus stalin himself. The U.S killed millions of Natives, Slaves, and soldiers. But we still have people that believe that the constitution is about freedoms and rights. Which Howard Zinn disproved.

 

[DDD]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Here is a list of Russian scientist that before were important before the revolution.

Dmitri Mendeleev

Ivan Pavlov

Why did the importance of these scientists fell? And after which revolution did it fell?

 

[Quag]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

Dialectical Materialism is based on aristotle, by its definition of fluid. No, russian science and arts(Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy) formed a culture that could have accepted marxism. No, russian ideology is very similar to marxist ideology, by the russian accepting some of the oriental characteristics and Dialectics . Here is a list of Russian scientist that before were important before the revolution.

Dmitri Mendeleev

Ivan Pavlov

Vladimir Vernadsky


Ivan Vladimirovich Michurin

Russia was not Marxists before the revolution.
Again there are great Russian scientists but that doesn't mean they are superior.

here are some good lists of greatest scientists. None are dominated by Stalinist Russia.
Top 10 Most Influential Scientists - Listverse
Inspiring People: Top 10 Scientists of All Time
Top 10 Greatest Scientists | Biography Online
10 Great Scientists of the World

 

[jag2594]

Re: Joseph Stalin intellectual contributions.

What alternative means does Marxist dialectical materialism offers to discovery compared to deduction, induction, and probability testing of hypothesis?

Purpose. Reorganization, Interaction with the material. They also believed that a theory is built on the knowledge from the past.