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Joseph and Jesus wern't immigrants in todays use of the word.

jdog21

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A lot of Christmas hatters and democrats have been trying to explain that Jesus was an immigrant and use that to justify their willingness to support NO Wall.

First off a wall only is only to stop illegal aliens from crossing.
According to Matthew it is not mentioned where Joseph lived but that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. They then left to Egypt were they stayed for a few weeks to up to 2 years. Then moved to Nazareth.
According to Luke Joseph lived in Nazareth and had to go to Bethlehem for the census registry to keep with his lineage. While there Jesus was born. Then they went to Jerusalem to visit the Temple and then back to Nazareth all less then 2 months.

Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Egypt were all places within the Roman empire. Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem were all under king Herods jurisdiction when Jesus was born. At some point during Jesus's birth till he around 2 years old Herod died and 2 of his sons fought for control of the land. Ceasar of Rome gave the southern half (Jerusalem and Bethlehem) to Archelaus and the upper half Galilee (Nazareth) to Antipater.

No where in these times were Joseph and baby Jesus outside of the Roman empire. This is like modern day United States were someone from California can go to Arizona for family reasons then to Nevada for a vacation and when time are tough and they can escape to Texas for a few years and return to California afterwards. Each state has different Governors with different laws and different political parites in control of their state. Its not like they escaped to China for refuge or asylum. So the parallels between Jesus and illegal aliens is joke, don't pay those haters any attention.
 

RabidAlpaca

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The comparison of Jesus to refugees is quite apt. Jesus and his family, like refugees, were in danger where they were and moved to a safer place in hopes of a better and safer life. Immigration regulation was absolutely not on their minds and they would've done anything to stay safe. Hell, being Jesus was against the law at that moment so your legality argument is meaningless.

If you really think Jesus wants you to whine and spew hate against people fleeing oppression, you didn't read a god damn thing he said.

By the way, Merry Christmas. Take some time to re-examine Christ's teachings.
 
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haymarket

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The comparison of Jesus to refugees is quite apt. Jesus and his family, like refugees, were in danger where they were and moved to a safer place in hopes of a better and safer life. Immigration regulation was absolutely not on their minds and they would've done anything to stay safe. Hell, being Jesus was against the law at that moment so your legality argument is meaningless.

If you really think Jesus wants you to whine and spew hate against people fleeing oppression, you didn't read a god damn thing he said.

The family of Jesus where middle class white Christians on a holiday vacation road trip and anybody who tries to compare them to immigrants or refugees or any other sort of undesirables is just denying the true spirit of Tiny Tim. God bless us everyone.
 

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Why would someone who makes and sells Christmas-themed hats care about Jesus’ immigration status?

;)
 

Rogue Valley

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No where in these times were Joseph and baby Jesus outside of the Roman empire.

Herod had 'closed' the territories he managed for his 'census'. Flight to Egypt would have been illegal.
 

DaveFagan

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A lot of Christmas hatters and democrats have been trying to explain that Jesus was an immigrant and use that to justify their willingness to support NO Wall.

First off a wall only is only to stop illegal aliens from crossing.
According to Matthew it is not mentioned where Joseph lived but that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. They then left to Egypt were they stayed for a few weeks to up to 2 years. Then moved to Nazareth.
According to Luke Joseph lived in Nazareth and had to go to Bethlehem for the census registry to keep with his lineage. While there Jesus was born. Then they went to Jerusalem to visit the Temple and then back to Nazareth all less then 2 months.

Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Egypt were all places within the Roman empire. Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem were all under king Herods jurisdiction when Jesus was born. At some point during Jesus's birth till he around 2 years old Herod died and 2 of his sons fought for control of the land. Ceasar of Rome gave the southern half (Jerusalem and Bethlehem) to Archelaus and the upper half Galilee (Nazareth) to Antipater.

No where in these times were Joseph and baby Jesus outside of the Roman empire. This is like modern day United States were someone from California can go to Arizona for family reasons then to Nevada for a vacation and when time are tough and they can escape to Texas for a few years and return to California afterwards. Each state has different Governors with different laws and different political parites in control of their state. Its not like they escaped to China for refuge or asylum. So the parallels between Jesus and illegal aliens is joke, don't pay those haters any attention.

I see. They were Arabs. About those "red eyes" quoted in the Bible. At age 73 I met a person with red eyes, so the quote had new meaning to me. The only red eyed person I had ever met. Been all over the Orient, Mexico, and the Continent. Just a note.
/
 

Josie

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Gotta love those Christmas hatters.
 

Manc Skipper

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The whole point of a census is to find out who lives where, how many kids they have, and what they do and so on. You fill it in where you are. Nobody goes back to where they were born to register, that's patently nonsense. The carpenter family were economic migrants, who were also escaping a genocide of Palestinians such as themselves.
 

jdog21

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The comparison of Jesus to refugees is quite apt. Jesus and his family, like refugees, were in danger where they were and moved to a safer place in hopes of a better and safer life. Immigration regulation was absolutely not on their minds and they would've done anything to stay safe. Hell, being Jesus was against the law at that moment so your legality argument is meaningless.

If you really think Jesus wants you to whine and spew hate against people fleeing oppression, you didn't read a god damn thing he said.

By the way, Merry Christmas. Take some time to re-examine Christ's teachings.

While fleeing from an area because a governor wishes to kill in children in a city under the age of 2 they left and then made sure when they returned to not return to that city of birth is quite and stretch from someone who want to leave the country of their birth and defy the laws of a country 2,000 miles away and be allowed to legally take of residence in the country. The two are not equitable. A more accurate parallel would be to say someone left New York city due to high murder rates and decided to move to Jersey City.
 

jdog21

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Herod had 'closed' the territories he managed for his 'census'. Flight to Egypt would have been illegal.

No evidence or claims to that exist plus would be pretty hard to do back then.
 

jdog21

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The whole point of a census is to find out who lives where, how many kids they have, and what they do and so on. You fill it in where you are. Nobody goes back to where they were born to register, that's patently nonsense. The carpenter family were economic migrants, who were also escaping a genocide of Palestinians such as themselves.

The first recorded census that is historical was taken around 6AD according to the historian Josephus and back then the census was used to make sure people were paying their taxes. The way people were taxed was a collector when around to each property owner for their money. Mary & Joseph owned land in Bethlehem due to him being a patriarch of David.
 

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The whole point of a census is to find out who lives where, how many kids they have, and what they do and so on. You fill it in where you are. Nobody goes back to where they were born to register, that's patently nonsense. The carpenter family were economic migrants, who were also escaping a genocide of Palestinians such as themselves.

*The carpenter family were economic migrants, who were also escaping a genocide of Palestinians such as themselves.*

Mary and Joseph weren't Palestinians, they were Judeans. Rome didn't change the name of Judea till after the third Jewish revolt in 135 CE.
 

Mr Person

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A lot of Christmas hatters and democrats have been trying to explain that Jesus was an immigrant and use that to justify their willingness to support NO Wall.

First off a wall only is only to stop illegal aliens from crossing.
According to Matthew it is not mentioned where Joseph lived but that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. They then left to Egypt were they stayed for a few weeks to up to 2 years. Then moved to Nazareth.
According to Luke Joseph lived in Nazareth and had to go to Bethlehem for the census registry to keep with his lineage. While there Jesus was born. Then they went to Jerusalem to visit the Temple and then back to Nazareth all less then 2 months.

Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Egypt were all places within the Roman empire. Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem were all under king Herods jurisdiction when Jesus was born. At some point during Jesus's birth till he around 2 years old Herod died and 2 of his sons fought for control of the land. Ceasar of Rome gave the southern half (Jerusalem and Bethlehem) to Archelaus and the upper half Galilee (Nazareth) to Antipater.

No where in these times were Joseph and baby Jesus outside of the Roman empire. This is like modern day United States were someone from California can go to Arizona for family reasons then to Nevada for a vacation and when time are tough and they can escape to Texas for a few years and return to California afterwards. Each state has different Governors with different laws and different political parites in control of their state. Its not like they escaped to China for refuge or asylum. So the parallels between Jesus and illegal aliens is joke, don't pay those haters any attention.

Strange.

It'd be much easier to go with the "love thy neighbor" routine. Not that every claimed Christian behaves in accordance with the required views, of course...
 

jdog21

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The whole point of a census is to find out who lives where, how many kids they have, and what they do and so on. You fill it in where you are. Nobody goes back to where they were born to register, that's patently nonsense. The carpenter family were economic migrants, who were also escaping a genocide of Palestinians such as themselves.

Also for Caesar Augustus had his silver Jubilee or 25th anniversary of his rule at the same time as the celebration of the 750 year sense the birth of Rome around 3 BC which he decreed all subjects in the empire sign allegiance to him.
Note to mention the original translations of the book of Luke that's states "And it came about at that time that a dvar malchut (decree) was sent out from Caesar Augustus to register everyone in the entire Roman Empire.
2 This mifkad (census) was before that taken while Quirinius was governor in Syria" Which means a register like the one for the Jubilee and was taken before the census of Quirinius was done in 6 AD which sits nicely with the 3 BC time line. Not to mention the passage say the King in Judea was Harod who most scholars say died in 3 BC.

The first recorded census that is historical was taken around 6AD according to the historian Josephus and back then the census was used to make sure people were paying their taxes. The way people were taxed was a collector when around to each property owner for their money. Mary & Joseph owned land in Bethlehem due to him being a patriarch of David.
 

jdog21

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Strange.

It'd be much easier to go with the "love thy neighbor" routine. Not that every claimed Christian behaves in accordance with the required views, of course...

I love them on the other side of my walls.
 

Mr Person

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I love them on the other side of my walls.

Well, I'm not so nice as that. I don't love any old person. I respect personhood, I like to think. I have a non-religious moral code that informs me. I don't need to love them. But I also don't hate them, wish them ill will, and would quite gladly do reasonable things to help them.

I'll say this much: people who consider themselves properly Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim) should be a lot more open to expanding and streamlining modern immigration channels. It's a mess. We only take a fraction. We can't take everyone, sure, but we take so few. Nonetheless, there are a lot of people genuinely fleeing death and misery. If we genuinely mean what we said as a largely Christian nation, we would be inviting those people to come and then giving them jobs. We wouldn't be setting things up so that it takes years to come and even then you might not get in, then complain when people show up on the doorstep. Lately, we've been choking off legal imigration channels and redirecting our focus to stupid ways to deal with illegal immigration.

Now, I don't think religion should drive policy. But I do think this is a reflection worth having.





Bottom line:

- **** the wall. It's stupid. Ladders, shovels, boats, and catapults defeat it.

- If we care, focus on making it as hard as possible and risky as possible to hire illegals.

- - Billions moved (say, from defense, which got a 100bil bump thanks to Trump) over to sweeping/checking employers,

- - requiring E-Verify for X,Y,Z status (someone said it was illegal but the fed can always withhold highway funds unless the states do their bidding; see for example speed limits)

- - (look into Mar-A-Lago?)

- Go back to Obama's policy of focusing deportation resources on the worst of the worst. We only have so much money. Trump dropped that to deport-everyone. But it doesn't take a mathematician to see that if a calculation is X = A + B, where X is the cost of immigration enforcement, then whatever A and B are have a direct relationship. Obama focused on "A" - the worst violent/etc criminals - and Trump said no, take them where you find them, which means he increased B (other "illegals"). That's stupidly self-defeating. If congress does not allocate more, and even if it does, it makes sense to focus on the people who came here and did wrong.

Even if you don't like the fact that someone came here and did not wrong besides being here illegally, it doesn't make sense to spend finite resources on deporting them rather than deporting that evil robber or drug dealer or whomever. And they really do have to make those decisions because a budget is a budget.
 

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The family of Jesus where middle class white Christians on a holiday vacation road trip and anybody who tries to compare them to immigrants or refugees or any other sort of undesirables is just denying the true spirit of Tiny Tim. God bless us everyone.
At the time, they were Jews....
 

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Any gonna tell the OP that Jesus was not white?

Sent from my Honor 8X using Tapatalk
 

Geoist

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A lot of Christmas hatters and democrats have been trying to explain that Jesus was an immigrant and use that to justify their willingness to support NO Wall.

First off a wall only is only to stop illegal aliens from crossing.
According to Matthew it is not mentioned where Joseph lived but that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. They then left to Egypt were they stayed for a few weeks to up to 2 years. Then moved to Nazareth.
According to Luke Joseph lived in Nazareth and had to go to Bethlehem for the census registry to keep with his lineage. While there Jesus was born. Then they went to Jerusalem to visit the Temple and then back to Nazareth all less then 2 months.

Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Egypt were all places within the Roman empire. Nazareth, Bethlehem, Jerusalem were all under king Herods jurisdiction when Jesus was born. At some point during Jesus's birth till he around 2 years old Herod died and 2 of his sons fought for control of the land. Ceasar of Rome gave the southern half (Jerusalem and Bethlehem) to Archelaus and the upper half Galilee (Nazareth) to Antipater.

No where in these times were Joseph and baby Jesus outside of the Roman empire. This is like modern day United States were someone from California can go to Arizona for family reasons then to Nevada for a vacation and when time are tough and they can escape to Texas for a few years and return to California afterwards. Each state has different Governors with different laws and different political parites in control of their state. Its not like they escaped to China for refuge or asylum. So the parallels between Jesus and illegal aliens is joke, don't pay those haters any attention.

I am sure Jesus is very proud of modern-day Evangelicals and their obsession with bringing those criminal immigrants/refugees to justice.
 

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Mary and Joseph weren't Palestinians, they were Judeans. Rome didn't change the name of Judea till after the third Jewish revolt in 135 CE.

Like saying Native Americans weren't American before the Europeans named it America.
 

hanger4

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Like saying Native Americans weren't American before the Europeans named it America.

No, it's like saying Judeans are Judeans especially since there is no such thing as a Palestinian, no language, no culture, no history, no state no nothing. It's a made up name for a fictitious people strictly for political purposes.
 
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