John Ivison: Trudeau convinced that pipeline strategy must be top priority

[JANFU]

John Ivison: Trudeau convinced that pipeline strategy must be top priority | National Post

Justin Trudeau has told his senior lieutenants to draw up plans to make the Energy East pipeline and the Trans Mountain expansion in British Columbia a reality.

The prime minister has been convinced by his finance minister, Bill Morneau, and other influential voices around the cabinet table that the pipelines have to be built to achieve the ambitious economic growth targets his government has set.

But the problem for the Liberals is that this conviction has to be conveyed subtly to a public that has decidedly mixed views on oilsands expansion and pipelines.

The prime minister has never been an advocate of a Canadian future without oil. He supported the Keystone XL pipeline, and explicitly stated that no country that found 170 billion barrels of oil would leave it in the ground.

I am in favor of both pipelines
Kinder Morgan & Energy East
No Govt funding to create 10's of thousands of jobs.


Pipelines Kinder Morgan –Energy East

Kinder Morgan – Yes

Energy East -Yes

Kinder Morgan –No

Energy East - No

No more pipelines

 

[Grand Mal]

John Ivison: Trudeau convinced that pipeline strategy must be top priority | National Post



I am in favor of both pipelines
Kinder Morgan & Energy East
No Govt funding to create 10's of thousands of jobs.


Pipelines Kinder Morgan –Energy East

Kinder Morgan – Yes

Energy East -Yes

Kinder Morgan –No

Energy East - No

No more pipelines

The day's coming when it'll be time to look at a pipeline to tidewater that runs north. The ice-free season is getting longer, icebreakers are used in lots of places already, and ships can go east or west, Asia or Europe, from Inuvik or Tuk.

 

[JANFU]

The day's coming when it'll be time to look at a pipeline to tidewater that runs north. The ice-free season is getting longer, icebreakers are used in lots of places already, and ships can go east or west, Asia or Europe, from Inuvik or Tuk.

Myself, I am not in favor of tankers traversing the NW Passage. An environmental disaster in the event of a spill.
I realize Russia is opening ports and increasing ice breakers for their northern waters, cuts shipping time west - east -east west.
And from what I understand they claim those as internal waters.

 

[Fearandloathing]

John Ivison: Trudeau convinced that pipeline strategy must be top priority | National Post



I am in favor of both pipelines
Kinder Morgan & Energy East
No Govt funding to create 10's of thousands of jobs.


Pipelines Kinder Morgan –Energy East

Kinder Morgan – Yes

Energy East -Yes

Kinder Morgan –No

Energy East - No

No more pipelines

Trudeau is showing some wisdom I did not know he had. Quebec, especially is anti-pipeline. The NDP just fired Mulcair and have agreed to consider and debate the new "manifesto" from the extreme eco-element of the party. I have not seen it, but it is harsh, about what you would expect from a newly minted Green and not something Canada could survive.

So on the heals of this, he goes the other way citing national economics, a perfect parry to the NDP idiocy which will likely split the party, leaving Liberals as the only place to park their vote. He has planted his seed early, and differentiated himself from greed head investments in other countries, such as Keystone, and a project his writers will term "unifying east and west."

He will sell it, and he will enter the realm of safety as opposed rail, which plays in Quebec, and "clean" in that pipelines are safer than rail.

What is not being said by anyone is the Oilsands. The NDP partied in Edmonton and never mentioned it, and I am sure Trudeau's plans have it nowhere near a priority. In fact I would not be surprised if he shut it down should the oil patch begin to recover.

 

[Fearandloathing]

The day's coming when it'll be time to look at a pipeline to tidewater that runs north. The ice-free season is getting longer, icebreakers are used in lots of places already, and ships can go east or west, Asia or Europe, from Inuvik or Tuk.

I suggest that is a long way off. Trudeau will have his hands full selling east-west. The Kinder-Morgan is a deal, despite the renta-campers. It affects jobs in Burnaby so the NDP won't fight it too hard. The local ecos have been sued and have to stay away. Other than that we're too busy choosing between a low fat latte and a double double.

Once the east west connector is underway and there are jobs, jobs, jobs, Canadians will do what we always do, go to work and leave the bitching to the poverty pimps

 

[Grand Mal]

I suggest that is a long way off. Trudeau will have his hands full selling east-west. The Kinder-Morgan is a deal, despite the renta-campers. It affects jobs in Burnaby so the NDP won't fight it too hard. The local ecos have been sued and have to stay away. Other than that we're too busy choosing between a low fat latte and a double double.

Once the east west connector is underway and there are jobs, jobs, jobs, Canadians will do what we always do, go to work and leave the bitching to the poverty pimps

Said it before, anyone who protests against pipelines needs to Google 'Lac Megantic'.

 

[Fearandloathing]

The day's coming when it'll be time to look at a pipeline to tidewater that runs north. The ice-free season is getting longer, icebreakers are used in lots of places already, and ships can go east or west, Asia or Europe, from Inuvik or Tuk.

The emergence of the North I think will be the new cold war. Canada is way behind in establishing its sovereignty. I believe new maritime law will have to be struck. While all eyes are on the middle east, the Arctic is where the future will be decided

 

[Grand Mal]

The emergence of the North I think will be the new cold war. Canada is way behind in establishing its sovereignty. I believe new maritime law will have to be struck. While all eyes are on the middle east, the Arctic is where the future will be decided

D'accord.
We need to do something to make it ours- build an armed icebreaker fleet, make a commitment. Just pointing to a map won't be enough when (ahem!) other nations say that routes through the islands are 'international waters'.

 

[SocialD]

Trudeau is showing some wisdom I did not know he had. Quebec, especially is anti-pipeline. The NDP just fired Mulcair and have agreed to consider and debate the new "manifesto" from the extreme eco-element of the party. I have not seen it, but it is harsh, about what you would expect from a newly minted Green and not something Canada could survive.

So on the heals of this, he goes the other way citing national economics, a perfect parry to the NDP idiocy which will likely split the party, leaving Liberals as the only place to park their vote. He has planted his seed early, and differentiated himself from greed head investments in other countries, such as Keystone, and a project his writers will term "unifying east and west."

He will sell it, and he will enter the realm of safety as opposed rail, which plays in Quebec, and "clean" in that pipelines are safer than rail.

What is not being said by anyone is the Oilsands. The NDP partied in Edmonton and never mentioned it, and I am sure Trudeau's plans have it nowhere near a priority. In fact I would not be surprised if he shut it down should the oil patch begin to recover.

I'm not in Canada but I'm thinking the same thing.
He has said some really stupid things on other issues. But This kind of thing could really uplift Canada economically into a position akin to a country like Norway who is doing great economically.
I had previously thought he was a useful idiot was all. But props to Trudeau for using the counsel of his advisors.

 

[JANFU]

The emergence of the North I think will be the new cold war. Canada is way behind in establishing its sovereignty. I believe new maritime law will have to be struck. While all eyes are on the middle east, the Arctic is where the future will be decided

For that it is in US best interests to agree with Canada that the NW Passage is indeed internal waters.

 

[JANFU]

I'm not in Canada but I'm thinking the same thing.
He has said some really stupid things on other issues. But This kind of thing could really uplift Canada economically into a position akin to a country like Norway who is doing great economically.
I had previously thought he was a useful idiot was all. But props to Trudeau for using the counsel of his advisors.

One reason he won the election was he was underestimated. And yes I include myself in that crowd

 

[JANFU]

The emergence of the North I think will be the new cold war. Canada is way behind in establishing its sovereignty. I believe new maritime law will have to be struck. While all eyes are on the middle east, the Arctic is where the future will be decided

And the Dippers shoot themselves in the feet, head and rear end.
When oil was around 100 the tax rev for the Feds was 600 B plus over 30 year, 300 B plus for AB. The longer the plant operate their margins increase and tax deductions decrease.
Then consider these are built for 50 years, plus.

Michael Den Tandt: The Leap Manifesto may be the best friend the oilpatch has ever had | National Post

By early last year, even the two “fallback” projects — TransCanada’s Energy East route to the St. Lawrence and Kinder Morgan’s proposed twinning of the existing Trans Mountain line to Vancouver — had become politically fragile. The federal NDP, to put this in context, in 2012 were pushing Energy East as a made-in-Canada project that would create thousands of good jobs. This same party last Sunday embraced (though it did not adopt) the Leap Manifesto, which advocates a halt to Canadian pipeline development, period.

Even as the goalposts moved ever closer together, from 2012 through 2015, the Conservative government failed to make a compelling case for pipelines. Stephen Harper himself did not make a single major speech advocating their construction or extolling their economic and environmental merits. Instead, the strategy was to belittle environmentalist critics and repeat, ad nauseam, that the NDP were scheming to impose a $21.5-billion carbon tax, which would raise the price of everything, including bubble gum and Christmas presents. It was negative politicking at its worst, devoid of any positive alternative.

 

[SocialD]

One reason he won the election was he was underestimated. And yes I include myself in that crowd

I really had a hard time getting past some of the moronic things he has said such as the 'if you kill your enemies, they win' regarding terrorists.
But I will give him props where its due for this pipeline stuff.

 

[JANFU]

I really had a hard time getting past some of the moronic things he has said such as the 'if you kill your enemies, they win' regarding terrorists.
But I will give him props where its due for this pipeline stuff.

In that I believe he was referring to what we call massive collateral damage- Killing civilians just makes more radicals.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I'm not in Canada but I'm thinking the same thing.
He has said some really stupid things on other issues. But This kind of thing could really uplift Canada economically into a position akin to a country like Norway who is doing great economically.
I had previously thought he was a useful idiot was all. But props to Trudeau for using the counsel of his advisors.

The Conservatives thought he was a useful idiot too, along with the entire New Democratic Party who went from second place to third and way out of contention. The fired their leader this past week end and adopted the "Leap Manifesto" for discussion. The document was composed a year ago by the most rabid members of the party. among other things it calls for an immediate halt to and a permanent fossil fuel infrastructure.

There is no longer an excuse for building new infrastructure projects that lock us into increased extraction decades into the future. The new iron law of energy development must be: if you wouldn’t want it in your backyard, then it doesn’t belong in anyone’s backyard. That applies equally to oil and gas pipelines; fracking in New Brunswick, Quebec and British Columbia; increased tanker traffic off our coasts; and to Canadian-owned mining projects the world over.

The work reads like a utopian dream: "we can live in an all electrical world connected by public transit". Yeah, like anyone wants to take a bus from Vancouver to Ottawa in the winter.

This is his response and why I say it is so clever. The debate will come down to Quebec and BC, who have the most opposition. Trudeau will make it a sink or swim issue in response the the NDP's chicken little performance.

As it stand right now he is alone at the top, with no one on the right yet even ready to want to run for the leadership of the party, and now with the collapse of the NDP on the week end, Trudeau owns it all. Everyone else is "rebuilding".

That alone is an amazing feat, as both Harper and Mulcair were poised to become prime minister six months ago, now their both history

 

[Fearandloathing]

For that it is in US best interests to agree with Canada that the NW Passage is indeed internal waters.

However they're being as stubborn as Russia

 

[JANFU]

However they're being as stubborn as Russia

Worse, very Ffn stupid. The smart strategic move would have the US recognize NWP as Canadian internal waters, which means ownership. Controls on who and what travels thru.

 

[Fearandloathing]

And the Dippers shoot themselves in the feet, head and rear end.
When oil was around 100 the tax rev for the Feds was 600 B plus over 30 year, 300 B plus for AB. The longer the plant operate their margins increase and tax deductions decrease.
Then consider these are built for 50 years, plus.

Michael Den Tandt: The Leap Manifesto may be the best friend the oilpatch has ever had | National Post

I guess that's what I'v e been trying to say. The Leap Manifesto draws a line in the sand and Trudeau wasted no time in crossing it. The LM is such a stupid piece of work

https://leapmanifesto.org/en/the-leap-manifesto/

.....And unicorns will play in the fields.

So far out there, Trudeau can walk right in and demand we build the east-west connector right now!

Wait, I think he just did.

On another forum I am exploring the topic of whether the NDP is relevant anymore. The Liberals have replaced them on the economic left, they are split on ecology with Greens encroaching exponentially....

What purpose do they serve other than another political machine to get people elected?

 

[JANFU]

I guess that's what I'v e been trying to say. The Leap Manifesto draws a line in the sand and Trudeau wasted no time in crossing it. The LM is such a stupid piece of work

https://leapmanifesto.org/en/the-leap-manifesto/

.....And unicorns will play in the fields.

So far out there, Trudeau can walk right in and demand we build the east-west connector right now!

Wait, I think he just did.

On another forum I am exploring the topic of whether the NDP is relevant anymore. The Liberals have replaced them on the economic left, they are split on ecology with Greens encroaching exponentially....

What purpose do they serve other than another political machine to get people elected?

From what I understand the BC Liberals are closer to Cons, is that correct?
Premier knows monies pay for programs. And in particular with an election in May. And with the LP, the NDP in BC if they do not walk away from endorsing the LP, well they will be in trouble comes election day.
This is right down her alley and she will be bouncing the Dippers hard and fast.
John Ivison: Signs that B.C. premier is moving to ?yes? on pipeline | National Post

But provincial government sources in Alberta and B.C. say Premier Christy Clark is looking for ways to support the pipeline ahead of next year’s election, particularly if she can win material benefits for British Columbians in the process.

“I think she would dearly love to say she got certain conditions met and she is the ‘premier of yes’ when it comes to resource development,” said one person involved in the delicate negotiations between federal and provincial governments.

Clark famously laid out five requirements that she said needed to be fulfilled before her government would give any pipeline its blessing, including a world-leading marine spill response system, benefits for First Nations and a “fair share” of economic spoils for B.C

 

[SocialD]

The Conservatives thought he was a useful idiot too, along with the entire New Democratic Party who went from second place to third and way out of contention. The fired their leader this past week end and adopted the "Leap Manifesto" for discussion. The document was composed a year ago by the most rabid members of the party. among other things it calls for an immediate halt to and a permanent fossil fuel infrastructure.



The work reads like a utopian dream: "we can live in an all electrical world connected by public transit". Yeah, like anyone wants to take a bus from Vancouver to Ottawa in the winter.

This is his response and why I say it is so clever. The debate will come down to Quebec and BC, who have the most opposition. Trudeau will make it a sink or swim issue in response the the NDP's chicken little performance.

As it stand right now he is alone at the top, with no one on the right yet even ready to want to run for the leadership of the party, and now with the collapse of the NDP on the week end, Trudeau owns it all. Everyone else is "rebuilding".

That alone is an amazing feat, as both Harper and Mulcair were poised to become prime minister six months ago, now their both history

I guess that while Canada is small in population, it is, like the USA, large in landscape. People in smaller countries don't understand the undertaking of mass transit from border to border. sure its feasible when your entire country is the size of one province or state.

 

[Fearandloathing]

From what I understand the BC Liberals are closer to Cons, is that correct?
Premier knows monies pay for programs. And in particular with an election in May. And with the LP, the NDP in BC if they do not walk away from endorsing the LP, well they will be in trouble comes election day.
This is right down her alley and she will be bouncing the Dippers hard and fast.
John Ivison: Signs that B.C. premier is moving to ?yes? on pipeline | National Post

It is difficult to explain the dynamic that is the Liberal Party of British Columbia; other than that it is an amalgam of federal Liberals and Conservatives, albeit the latter fiscal 'conservatives', the true blue type is an endangered species here. The May 2013 election was an historic 'come-from-behind electoral victory that stunned almost everyone except Christy's top people, who, by the way were "loaned" to the federal liberals for last fall's 'other' historic come from behind. Yes, we are seeing a pattern.

I was part of the campaign, working for a local candidate who lost. Christy ran on a straight out platform of "drill baby, drill!" so we can have a "sustainable" social safety net. Did you like the way I worked "sustainable" in there? That was the genius, and how the media and pollsters were left holding the bag. The BC liberals hijacked the word "sustainable" from the eco's, a tiny but strategic move.

Meanwhile, the union based NDP panicked when they saw their huge, 22 point lead eroding, no one had ever realized, that's what happens in an election, numbnuts. Their leader, out of the blue said he would veto the Kinder pipeline. It hadn't even been officially proposed yet. That meant bye bye to hudreds of millions of dollars of jobs and the NDP vote disolved.

The relationship is tenuous and, typically for BC, weird. Christy is a federal Liberal, her ex-husband a high profile organizer with the party. However she cannot get elected without appealing to the conservatives.

Then, there is the three-way relationship with the provinces mayors, in particular Vancouver and Surrey, the former held by a former NDP MLA, and the latter a right-leaning BC Liberal. Both are very friendly with Trudeau, as they drool over the offer of "urban infrastructure" money. Christy is in the middle of that and armed with a good argument for a piece of somebody's pie.

Add to the dynamic that Christy faces re-election next year, her "drill baby, drill" campaign on the rocks with delays in the building of an LNG plant in the north. She needs $ for the port, and she needs some pipeline too. And she will put her support behind an east-west connector as long as she gets $ and the go ahead for other infrastructure around the province. What will show is if any federal money is announced in or around the election.

The other side of the aisle, though is in disarray. The BC NDP leader is a nobody, I can't even recall his name, and after the disaster in Edmonton, no one is sure what they stand for. And if they remain as opposed to pipelines, they will become the endangered species needing protection. Whether anyone likes or not, and we have "other industries" here, this province runs on resource development.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I guess that while Canada is small in population, it is, like the USA, large in landscape. People in smaller countries don't understand the undertaking of mass transit from border to border. sure its feasible when your entire country is the size of one province or state.

Not like the USA, about two and a half times the size, spanning 7 time zones, second in land mass to only Russia. 90% of the population lives within 150 miles of the US border spanning nearly 4,000 miles. There are two, count them two, passes trough the Rockies.

Canada is not a nation, but an on-going experiment in nation building.

 

[SocialD]

Not like the USA, about two and a half times the size, spanning 7 time zones, second in land mass to only Russia. 90% of the population lives within 150 miles of the US border spanning nearly 4,000 miles. There are two, count them two, passes trough the Rockies.

Canada is not a nation, but an on-going experiment in nation building.

I thought Canada had pacific, mountain, central, eastern and then what newfoundland has its own and something is in atlantic time err prince Edward island? that would be 6 wouldn't it?

 

[Carjosse]

I guess that while Canada is small in population, it is, like the USA, large in landscape. People in smaller countries don't understand the undertaking of mass transit from border to border. sure its feasible when your entire country is the size of one province or state.

It actually pretty feasible in Canada, mainly because we are all really close to the US border we essentially all live in one corridor so we can just create coast-to-coast train lines and highways and that connects almost everyone, something impossible in the US. Half of our population is concentrated in Ontario and Quebec anyways. It is what allows Canadian railway companies span both countries and coast to coast whereas companies in the US are really regionally restricted and companies are forced to use long-haul trucks to move anything. This also applies to people.

 

[Carjosse]

I thought Canada had pacific, mountain, central, eastern and then what newfoundland has its own and something is in atlantic time err prince Edward island? that would be 6 wouldn't it?

You are forgetting Atlantic between Eastern and Newfoundland.