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John Bolton’s Notes Indicate U.S. Troop Deployment An Option On Venezuela

It's a bad thing because John Bolton and the American investors are not Venezuelans and are not answerable to the Venezuelan people. They are meddling in a foreign country's internal affairs while simultaneously strangling its economy through sanctions on Venezuelan trade, financial transactions, capital flows and sanctions on third-party states, organisations and firms which want to do business with Venezuela. The US is encouraging mutineers and traitors to undemocratically seize political power in Venezuela so that American investors can seize economic power over the country's resources. The US Government has no right to do what it is doing to Venezuela and what it is preparing to do to Cuba, Nicaragua, Bolivia and any other South or Central American state which elects for economic nationalism, socialism or pro-Russian/Chinese alignment.

The world does not belong to America and a global insurgency is beginning to develop which will eventually overwhelm America's ability to control/influence world affairs. It will take time and cost much in property and human blood but this insurgency will grow and build until a cascade moment arrives when the US Armed Forces are overwhelmed on too many fronts simultaneously and the US treasury is bankrupted. Then all hell will break loose. It is actions like those the US is taking in Venezuela, Africa and Asia which are fuelling this growing global insurgency and when US global and regional hegemony is broken (and it will be eventually)! then the bombs and blood will escalate radically as chaos replaces order and war replaces peace.

Maniacs like the militant neoconservatives Bolton, Abrams and Pompeo and idiots like President Trump are engineering the conditions which will bring about the downfall of America in a growing global insurgency and we will all suffer as collateral damage in that epic confrontation and follow-on collapse. Wise men and women in America have lost control of their government and a dangerous leviathan is about to run amok in Latin America and the Caribbean. It's appetite will not be satisfied in the Western Hemisphere and it will target Iran and Syria next. Then Africa. The hunger will grow and there will be finally confrontations with China in Africa and Asia and confrontations with Russia in Europe and Asia. When that last tier is reached then it's likely game-over for human civilisation and maybe even the species. What price must the world pay for US and US investor interests?

America has been on a full time war footing since 1942 and now all you remember is war. You spend over a trillion US dollars per year on national security and military expenditures. You have gutted the other mechanisms of your state which used to exercise diplomacy and soft-power and are now the most impatient, predatory and militarised state on the planet, eclipsing even North Korea, Russia and colonial Europe in your appetite for war and conquest. It's time to seen yourselves off forever-war and realign your state to a less war-like footing, to stop using militarism as a tool of first resort, to stop using military force to impel other states to cede their economic wealth to your investors and to work cooperatively with other states in order to maintain global stability and to foster the wider peace. The alternative is global insurrection and ruination for all. Venezuela is just the next nail in the coffin of America but the collapse of your state will fill up the graveyard of human civilisations with many other states caught in the crossfire. When giants stumble or are brought low, the Earth quakes and breaks. I don't want to be broken under the deathroes of a Gog or Magog.

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

Since when does investment and assistance require citizenship?
 
Since when does investment and assistance require citizenship?

Fledermaus:

Okay. Believe what you want to. In the fullness of time the true nature of this hostile takeover of Venezuela will come to light. By then it likely will be too late to reverse the effects of the US-backed coup attempt in Venezuela. Bloody civil war may have broken out or the regime may collapse. But understand that there will be international blow back far beyond Venezuela's borders and that young American men and women in uniform who don't know better will die, be maimed or traumatised by the ramafications of this ill-considered and fraudulent foreign policy decision. You could warn them about what they're going to be laying their lives on the line for or you can be part of the fraud which will imperil them. Whatever path you choose will have consequences and I hope you make peace with whatever path you choose.

Juan Guaido attended George Washington University for two years and was mentored by Luis Emrique Berrizbeitia. Berrizbeitia mentored him in the brand of radical and militant neoliberalism usually associated with the economic hitmen of the Chicago school of economics. Berrizbeitia was the director of the IMF and then ran CAF. Now he runs his own think-tank/PR firm/lobbying company which has been instrumental in helping radical right-wing parties and politicians rise to power in at least three Latin American countries IIRC. (Look up the roles of US-funded, right-wing think-tanks in the recent politics of Central and South America.) Juan Guaido is an agent for those both outside and inside Venezuela who realise that a right-wing government simply cannot get elected in Venezuela in a democratic election at this time. So instead they will seize power and then use the resources of their own and foreign states to socially engineer Chavismo out of the on third of the Venezuelan people who strongly support it. Guaido and his very marginal party have been at the forefront of violent demonstrations and attacks on Chavistas for the last dozen years. He is an ambitious and ruthless authoritarian who is determined to bring his country to ruin if he cannot seize power undemocratically. Look up the connections if you wish to verify this. As far as I know the story about Juan Guaido's less than liberty-minded past has not been collated yet into one convenient and credible article which I can link you to here but if you're willing to do some homework the whole story is to be found in bits and pieces in the public domain.

Since when does investment and assistance require citizenship?

Just like the US blocks Chinese companies like Huawei from controlling US telecommunications infrastructure for national security reasons, so Venezuela has every right to block foreign investment in its most strategically important industry (oil) if it believes that those foreign investors' interests will hurt Venezuela.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus:

Okay. Believe what you want to. In the fullness of time the true nature of this hostile takeover of Venezuela will come to light. By then it likely will be too late to reverse the effects of the US-backed coup attempt in Venezuela. Bloody civil war may have broken out or the regime may collapse. But understand that there will be international blow back far beyond Venezuela's borders and that young American men and women in uniform who don't know better will die, be maimed or traumatised by the ramafications of this ill-considered and fraudulent foreign policy decision. You could warn them about what they're going to be laying their lives on the line for or you can be part of the fraud which will imperil them. Whatever path you choose will have consequences and I hope you make peace with whatever path you choose.

Juan Guaido attended George Washington University for two years and was mentored by Luis Emrique Berrizbeitia. Berrizbeitia mentored him in the brand of radical and militant neoliberalism usually associated with the economic hitmen of the Chicago school of economics. Berrizbeitia was the director of the IMF and then ran CAF. Now he runs his own think-tank/PR firm/lobbying company which has been instrumental in helping radical right-wing parties and politicians rise to power in at least three Latin American countries IIRC. (Look up the roles of US-funded, right-wing think-tanks in the recent politics of Central and South America.) Juan Guaido is an agent for those both outside and inside Venezuela who realise that a right-wing government simply cannot get elected in Venezuela in a democratic election at this time. So instead they will seize power and then use the resources of their own and foreign states to socially engineer Chavismo out of the on third of the Venezuelan people who strongly support it. Guaido and his very marginal party have been at the forefront of violent demonstrations and attacks on Chavistas for the last dozen years. He is an ambitious and ruthless authoritarian who is determined to bring his country to ruin if he cannot seize power undemocratically. Look up the connections if you wish to verify this. As far as I know the story about Juan Guaido's less than liberty-minded past has not been collated yet into one convenient and credible article which I can link you to here but if you're willing to do some homework the whole story is to be found in bits and pieces in the public domain.

Just like the US blocks Chinese companies like Huawei from controlling US telecommunications infrastructure for national security reasons, so Venezuela has every right to block foreign investment in its most strategically important industry (oil) if it believes that those foreign investors' interests will hurt Venezuela.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I never said the US would control Venezuelan oil. Did I?

But something the US is very, very good at is discovery, extraction and processing oil.

That is one reason US companies are used world wide to include Iraq where the US was not rewarded a single oil contract.

And Venezuela did indeed flourish under the old pre Chavez agreements. Didn't it?

Venezuela needs something and that something isn't the dictatorial Maduro just as it wasn't Chavez.
 
1) I never said the US would control Venezuelan oil. Did I?

2) But something the US is very, very good at is discovery, extraction and processing oil.

3) That is one reason US companies are used world wide to include Iraq where the US was not rewarded a single oil contract.

4) And Venezuela did indeed flourish under the old pre Chavez agreements. Didn't it?

5) Venezuela needs something and that something isn't the dictatorial Maduro just as it wasn't Chavez.

Numbers added to quotation by me for easier reference.

Fledermaus:

1) No, I don't think you did. Mr. John Bolton however did and it seems that he is calling the shots in Venezuela, so it is an important point as it is a major motive for the US attempting to overthrow President Maduro and Chavismo in Venezuela. It is a classical state-decapitation operation in the style of the Allende regime in Chile in the early 1970's.

2) So are Canada, France and the Brits which goes quite a ways to explaining why these countries so quickly aligned behind the USA in supporting the unfolding coup d'etat and forced regime change.

3) There are many reasons why US companies are awarded opportunities in foreign oil extraction and processing industries. Some of them are merit-based and some are based on influence/graft/threats. What is far more important to the US Government is preserving the Petro-dollar system of international oil trade and Venezuela, being unable to sell oil using US dollars due to sanctions and interference from the US, changed to using Euros. That's what triggered the recent escalation of US efforts to oust Maduro/the Chavistas from power in Venezuela, just as that was a major motive for invading Iraq in 2003 when Saddam Hussein took Iraq off the Petro-dollar system and began using Euros to sell oil. The WMD issue was just pretext as US and Western intelligence agencies were very sure that Saddam had destroyed or alienated all of Iraq's WMDs before the invasion in 2003.

4) Venezuelan elites certainly did flourish in Venizuela before the coming of Chavez and the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. But the wealth remained in very few hands and the great majority of the country saw no direct benefit from Venezuelan oil sales until the Chavistas began oil revenue funded social programmes designed to redistribute the oil wealth in order to lift the poor out of their misery. These programmes were quite successful under President Higo Chavez but faltered in the last year of his life (2013) and also during President Maduro's tenure of mismanagement and run-away corruption. So to summarise most Venezuelans saw no benefit from the oil extracted and sold by the pre-Chavismo Republic of Venezuela. Between 70 and 75% of the population saw no direct or indirect benefit from oil sales until Chavez forced the issue.

5) I agree about Maduro but not about Chavez. More importantly the choice and the effort to drop President Maduro must be a solely Venezuelan choice supported by the Venezuelan people. Foreign supported and directed interference like economic sabotage and fostering treason and mutiny in the Venezuelan state and military by foreign powers is definitely not okay. In recent polls conducted in Venezuela 86% of Venezuelans opposed any foreign-led coup or other form of regime change and 81% said that governmental reform must come from within Venezuela alone with no foreign influence. Incidentally about 80% of Venezuelans had little or no idea who Juan Guido was before his election by the National Assembly to the presidency of that body and his follow-on and self-declared assumption of the Venezuelan Presidency in violation of the Venezuelan constitution.

I noticed you didn't comment on Juan Guaido's grooming by right-wing schools, think-tanks and economists closely aligned to radical neoliberal networks which are determined to suppress economic nationalism and international states' rights to control their own economies. That is a very important aspect of this story which is being grossly under-reported and the silence appears to be intentional. I wonder why?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Last edited:
Numbers added to quotation by me for easier reference.

Fledermaus:

1) No, I don't think you did. Mr. John Bolton however did and it seems that he is calling the shots in Venezuela, so it is an important point as it is a major motive for the US attempting to overthrow President Maduro and Chavismo in Venezuela. It is a classical state-decapitation operation in the style of the Allende regime in Chile in the early 1970's.

2) So are Canada, France and the Brits which goes quite a ways to explaining why these countries so quickly aligned behind the USA in supporting the unfolding coup d'etat and forced regime change.

3) There are many reasons why US companies are awarded opportunities in foreign oil extraction and processing industries. Some of them are merit-based and some are based on influence/graft/threats. What is far more important to the US Government is preserving the Petro-dollar system of international oil trade and Venezuela, being unable to sell oil using US dollars due to sanctions and interference from the US, changed to using Euros. That's what triggered the recent escalation of US efforts to oust Maduro/the Chavistas from power in Venezuela, just as that was a major motive for invading Iraq in 2003 when Saddam Hussein took Iraq off the Petro-dollar system and began using Euros to sell oil. The WMD issue was just pretext as US and Western intelligence agencies were very sure that Saddam had destroyed or alienated all of Iraq's WMDs before the invasion in 2003.

4) Venezuelan elites certainly did flourish in Venizuela before the coming of Chavez and the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. But the wealth remained in very few hands and the great majority of the country saw no direct benefit from Venezuelan oil sales until the Chavistas began oil revenue funded social programmes designed to redistribute the oil wealth in order to lift the poor out of their misery. These programmes were quite successful under President Higo Chavez but faltered in the last year of his life (2013) and also during President Maduro's tenure of mismanagement and run-away corruption. So to summarise most Venezuelans saw no benefit from the oil extracted and sold by the pre-Chavismo Republic of Venezuela. Between 70 and 75% of the population saw no direct or indirect benefit from oil sales until Chavez forced the issue.

5) I agree about Maduro but not about Chavez. More importantly the choice and the effort to drop President Maduro must be a solely Venezuelan choice supported by the Venezuelan people. Foreign supported and directed interference like economic sabotage and fostering treason and mutiny in the Venezuelan state and military by foreign powers is definitely not okay. In recent polls conducted in Venezuela 86% of Venezuelans opposed any foreign-led coup or other form of regime change and 81% said that governmental reform must come from within Venezuela alone with no foreign influence. Incidentally about 80% of Venezuelans had little or no idea who Juan Guido was before his election by the National Assembly to the presidency of that body and his follow-on and self-declared assumption of the Venezuelan Presidency in violation of the Venezuelan constitution.

I noticed you didn't comment on Juan Guaido's grooming by right-wing schools, think-tanks and economists closely aligned to radical neoliberal networks which are determined to suppress economic nationalism and international states' rights to control their own economies. That is a very important aspect of this story which is being grossly under-reported and the silence appears to be intentional. I wonder why?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

1. I am not John Bolten nor do I play him on TV.

2. If you want second best go Canada, France or UK. ;). The Venezuelan military is not hacking it.

3. Sell the oil for Rubles, the Euro or Zimbabwe Dollars. The oil will sell IF it is produced. And it isn't being produced in an efficient manner.

4. Interesting that you are going class warfare route. Isn't it better now for the lower classes with 100,000+ percent inflation, no food nor medicine to be had and no jobs and massive violence. Venezuela, according to a Washington Post business article noted, is twice as bad as Greece and will soon be worse than Zimbabwe or the Ukraine post USSR.

And it isn't just oil that was nationalized then pillaged but steel, mining, agriculture, etc. Grab the industry, kick out the productive, install the "loyal", then siphon of profit while the infrastructure implodes. If the peons sqawk give them Rome. Bread and circuses... Or Bread and Housing.

Until the money runs out.

Then you have roughly 10% of the population bailing out...

Yeah. It has been really good for the populace.

5. Chavez started the ball rolling with his mismanagement of industry and agriculture. His circus. His monkey.

But, hey... They avoided the US hegemony, eh.
 
1. I am not John Bolten nor do I play him on TV.

2. If you want second best go Canada, France or UK. ;). The Venezuelan military is not hacking it.

3. Sell the oil for Rubles, the Euro or Zimbabwe Dollars. The oil will sell IF it is produced. And it isn't being produced in an efficient manner.

4. Interesting that you are going class warfare route. Isn't it better now for the lower classes with 100,000+ percent inflation, no food nor medicine to be had and no jobs and massive violence. Venezuela, according to a Washington Post business article noted, is twice as bad as Greece and will soon be worse than Zimbabwe or the Ukraine post USSR.

And it isn't just oil that was nationalized then pillaged but steel, mining, agriculture, etc. Grab the industry, kick out the productive, install the "loyal", then siphon of profit while the infrastructure implodes. If the peons sqawk give them Rome. Bread and circuses... Or Bread and Housing.

Until the money runs out.

Then you have roughly 10% of the population bailing out...

Yeah. It has been really good for the populace.

5. Chavez started the ball rolling with his mismanagement of industry and agriculture. His circus. His monkey.

But, hey... They avoided the US hegemony, eh.

Fledermaus:

The processing of medium and heavy crude oils requires light crude oil to be used in the process. US sanctions and financial interference for the last thirty years have prevented Venezuela from getting access to the light, refined crude oil it needs to process its oil for shipment. At first US sanctions simply made the process of getting access to the light crude more expensive for Venezuela but since about 2011-12 the US has been doing its all to prevent light crude imports from being available to Venezuela. That choking off of light crude oil supplies by US restraint of international trade, more than mismanagement, is why Venezuelan oil production and processing is about one-third of what it used to be twenty years ago.

Last year the Venezuelans sold $ 900 million dollars US worth of unrefined gold to Turkey in order to try and bolster their economy from insolvency, due to the sanctions and financial restraints imposed upon it by the USA. The Americans then sanctioned Venezuelan gold sales, third-party states and firms which buy or which transport Venezuelan gold and any country which in any way helps Venezuela to sell the gold it mines or holds. The UAE is now in the USA cross-hairs as its Noor Group is in the process of buying large amounts of gold bullion from Venezuela. It will be interesting to see how hard the USA comes down on the UAE as the UAE is also playing a key role in the US programme of punitive sanctions and economic warfare being waged against Iran.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus:

The processing of medium and heavy crude oils requires light crude oil to be used in the process. US sanctions and financial interference for the last thirty years have prevented Venezuela from getting access to the light, refined crude oil it needs to process its oil for shipment. At first US sanctions simply made the process of getting access to the light crude more expensive for Venezuela but since about 2011-12 the US has been doing its all to prevent light crude imports from being available to Venezuela. That choking off of light crude oil supplies by US restraint of international trade, more than mismanagement, is why Venezuelan oil production and processing is about one-third of what it used to be twenty years ago.

Last year the Venezuelans sold $ 900 million dollars US worth of unrefined gold to Turkey in order to try and bolster their economy from insolvency, due to the sanctions and financial restraints imposed upon it by the USA. The Americans then sanctioned Venezuelan gold sales, third-party states and firms which buy or which transport Venezuelan gold and any country which in any way helps Venezuela to sell the gold it mines or holds. The UAE is now in the USA cross-hairs as its Noor Group is in the process of buying large amounts of gold bullion from Venezuela. It will be interesting to see how hard the USA comes down on the UAE as the UAE is also playing a key role in the US programme of punitive sanctions and economic warfare being waged against Iran.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Oh FFS... The oil woes began long before any embargoes or sanctions.

And Venezuela ships its heavy crude externally to other refineries.. It still does. 500,000 barrels a day to the US.. They are shipping to Russia and China as well.

It's output has dropped to a fraction of what it was before due to Chavez/Maduro mismanagement. Mismanagement not sanction nor embargo made.

What's next..

Someone talking naughty about Maduro's mommy causing the economic woes?

Trump.tweeted 'I Don't like Maduro' and that is shutting down production?
 
Oh FFS... The oil woes began long before any embargoes or sanctions.

And Venezuela ships its heavy crude externally to other refineries.. It still does. 500,000 barrels a day to the US.. They are shipping to Russia and China as well.

It's output has dropped to a fraction of what it was before due to Chavez/Maduro mismanagement. Mismanagement not sanction nor embargo made.

What's next..

Someone talking naughty about Maduro's mommy causing the economic woes?

Trump.tweeted 'I Don't like Maduro' and that is shutting down production?

Fledermaus:

Your flippant responses don't change the facts on the ground and your tangents don't distract me from the issue at hand in this thread. The USA is waging economic warfare against Venezuela and is preparing to escalate that warfare by either proxy or direct military action. Given its support for undemocratically "elected" right-wing regimes in places like Honduras and Guatemala to name but a few, there is no doubt that US hostility is ideologically based and that US actions are prioritised to achieve regime change and not to restore democracy in Venezuela. The statement of the Venezuelan opposition support this as they do not intend to call quick elections within the 30-day period which they are required to do by law.

The trouble from the US started in 1922 when oil was first discovered in Venezuela. And the US has for years threatened sanctions against any third-party state which buys processed crude oil from the Bilivarian Republic of Venezuela, which is restraint of international trade by the US. Furthermore the US is actively blocking light oil imports to Venezuela so that the Venezuelans cannot process oil for export or even refine it for domestic use. That's interference plain and simple.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/oil-tankers-floating-limbo-u-225036514.html

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus:

Your flippant responses don't change the facts on the ground and your tangents don't distract me from the issue at hand in this thread. The USA is waging economic warfare against Venezuela and is preparing to escalate that warfare by either proxy or direct military action. Given its support for undemocratically "elected" right-wing regimes in places like Honduras and Guatemala to name but a few, there is no doubt that US hostility is ideologically based and that US actions are prioritised to achieve regime change and not to restore democracy in Venezuela. The statement of the Venezuelan opposition support this as they do not intend to call quick elections within the 30-day period which they are required to do by law.

The trouble from the US started in 1922 when oil was first discovered in Venezuela. And the US has for years threatened sanctions against any third-party state which buys processed crude oil from the Bilivarian Republic of Venezuela, which is restraint of international trade by the US. Furthermore the US is actively blocking light oil imports to Venezuela so that the Venezuelans cannot process oil for export or even refine it for domestic use. That's interference plain and simple.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

My flippant responses are tit for tat with your pinballing....

Look. The woes Venezuela are suffering are an outcome of bad or nonexistent management of a number of industries exacerbated by Dutch Disease.

Venezuela is shipping crude to the US. As it has before. And the US uses every drop it gets. Money still flows from the US to Venezuela.

The issue is the inefficiency of the oil production. Just as agriculture and other industries failed.

And all of it began before sanctions or embargo.
 
My flippant responses are tit for tat with your pinballing....

Look. The woes Venezuela are suffering are an outcome of bad or nonexistent management of a number of industries exacerbated by Dutch Disease.

Venezuela is shipping crude to the US. As it has before. And the US uses every drop it gets. Money still flows from the US to Venezuela.

The issue is the inefficiency of the oil production. Just as agriculture and other industries failed.

And all of it began before sanctions or embargo.

Fledermaus:

No, you are wrong because you are omitting to discuss the role of economic warfare which has compounded and surpassed the bad management as the US has ratcheted up the economic pressure on Venezuela. And you are wrong in saying the OAS has recognised the pretender Juan Guaido as the legitimate president of Venezuela. While a majority of OAS countries have five or six have not as far as I know to date. Mike Pompeo was still trying to win them over last week IIRC c. Jan. 24th, 2019.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus:

No, you are wrong because you are omitting to discuss the role of economic warfare which has compounded and surpassed the bad management as the US has ratcheted up the economic pressure on Venezuela. And you are wrong in saying the OAS has recognised the pretender Juan Guaido as the legitimate president of Venezuela. While a majority of OAS countries have five or six have not as far as I know to date. Mike Pompeo was still trying to win them over last week IIRC c. Jan. 24th, 2019.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

The US didn't replace oil experts with military lackeys.

The US didn't place Ill advised price controls in effect.

The US didn't nationalize other industries.

The US didn't overspend on socialist programs.

Just a short list of things the US DID NOT DO....

As to the OAS.... "U.S. recognition of Guaido's claim was followed by Canada, the OAS, and a slew of Latin American countries including Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Colombia."
https://thehill.com/latino/426634-us-recognizes-venezuelan-opposition-leader-as-interim-president

And the OAS have come out in oppositition to the Maduro election.
.
OAS Permanent Council Agrees "to not recognize the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro's new term"
January 10, 2019
The Permanent Council of the Organization of American States (OAS) today agreed "to not recognize the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro’s new term as of the 10th of January of 2019." The resolution was approved with 19 votes in favor, 6 against, 8 abstentions and one absent.
 
The US didn't replace oil experts with military lackeys.

The US didn't place Ill advised price controls in effect.

The US didn't nationalize other industries.

The US didn't overspend on socialist programs.

Just a short list of things the US DID NOT DO....

As to the OAS.... "U.S. recognition of Guaido's claim was followed by Canada, the OAS, and a slew of Latin American countries including Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Colombia."
https://thehill.com/latino/426634-us-recognizes-venezuelan-opposition-leader-as-interim-president

And the OAS have come out in oppositition to the Maduro election.
.
OAS Permanent Council Agrees "to not recognize the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro's new term"
January 10, 2019
The Permanent Council of the Organization of American States (OAS) today agreed "to not recognize the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro’s new term as of the 10th of January of 2019." The resolution was approved with 19 votes in favor, 6 against, 8 abstentions and one absent.

Fledermaus:

That there was mismanagement is not contested. That the mismanagement is what is the dominant factor causing the collapse of the Venezuelan economy is contested. It's not a binary choice.

As to your cited article from The Hill, well the words fake news come to mind. Look at the date of the article and then look at this piece by Reuters from the following day. There were a flurry of these reports on Jan. 23, 2019 which proved to be false. The Reuters story can be checked and confirmed with multiple other sources.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...oc-to-support-venezuelas-guaido-idUSKCN1PI2HJ

As to not recognising Maduro your information is correct but it was a badly split vote with 19 votes for and 15 votes against or abstaining. If you limit the results to Latin American members of the OAS then it would not have passed. But it did so your point here is valid. However not recognising Mr. Maduro's second term is not the same as recognising the pretender Guaido. I should also point out that the OAS declared the Honduran presidential election of Juan Hernandez invalid but the US is actively supporting that government. I wonder why?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Fledermaus:

That there was mismanagement is not contested. That the mismanagement is what is the dominant factor causing the collapse of the Venezuelan economy is contested. It's not a binary choice.

As to your cited article from The Hill, well the words fake news come to mind. Look at the date of the article and then look at this piece by Reuters from the following day. There were a flurry of these reports on Jan. 23, 2019 which proved to be false. The Reuters story can be checked and confirmed with multiple other sources.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...oc-to-support-venezuelas-guaido-idUSKCN1PI2HJ

As to not recognising Maduro your information is correct but it was a badly split vote with 19 votes for and 15 votes against or abstaining. If you limit the results to Latin American members of the OAS then it would not have passed. But it did so your point here is valid. However not recognising Mr. Maduro's second term is not the same as recognising the pretender Guaido. I should also point out that the OAS declared the Honduran presidential election of Juan Hernandez invalid but the US is actively supporting that government. I wonder why?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Who is arguing mismanagement of the oil and other industries wasn't the main reason of the collapse?

Please share.

One contributor is the cost of socialist programs. But is isn't the cause no matter what Conservatives say.

One contributor was a drop in oil prices. Again, other nations in OPEC and out weathered the storm.

The difference is the other nations were able to ramp up production once prices returned. Venezuela could not because the oil industry was gelded...

And whose fault is that?
 
1) Who is arguing mismanagement of the oil and other industries wasn't the main reason of the collapse?

2) Please share.

3) One contributor is the cost of socialist programs. But is isn't the cause no matter what Conservatives say.

4) One contributor was a drop in oil prices. Again, other nations in OPEC and out weathered the storm.

5) The difference is the other nations were able to ramp up production once prices returned. Venezuela could not because the oil industry was gelded...

6) And whose fault is that?

Numbers added to the quotation by me.

Fledermaus:

1) I am.

2) I already have and will not repeat it. Reread the thread if you haven't been able to follow the case.

3) Perhaps you could prove these assertions with some evidence or authority. Why should I do all the work here?

4) Why did oil prices drop precipitously in the spring of 2014? Hint: Saudi Arabia boosted production that spring, but why? Second hint: what other oil producing country was misbehaving at that time? No, it wasn't Venezuela; think harder.

5) Prove your case with evidence please.

6) See point # 5) above.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Numbers added to the quotation by me.

Fledermaus:

1) I am.

2) I already have and will not repeat it. Reread the thread if you haven't been able to follow the case.

3) Perhaps you could prove these assertions with some evidence or authority. Why should I do all the work here?

4) Why did oil prices drop precipitously in the spring of 2014? Hint: Saudi Arabia boosted production that spring, but why? Second hint: what other oil producing country was misbehaving at that time? No, it wasn't Venezuela; think harder.

5) Prove your case with evidence please.

6) See point # 5) above.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

1. And you are?

2. So, nothing.

3. Do you disagree? Were social programs the downfall?

4. Did or did not the drop in oil prices contribute to the nation's ills. HINT: Not just 2014.

5. Refer to any number of articles on the subject of Venezuealan oil production.

Like this:

Reuters
THU JAN 18, 2018 / 2:32 PM EST
Crisis-hit Venezuela's oil output plummets in 2017 to decades low

HOUSTON/CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela's crude oil production fell nearly 13 percent last year, according to figures released by OPEC on Thursday, hitting a 28-year annual low that points to a deepening economic crisis and increased chances of a debt default.

The South American country produced 2.072 million barrels per day (bpd) in 2017 versus 2.373 million bpd the previous year, a nearly 300,000-bpd drop.

That was the biggest decline among the members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries that have pledged to restrain production since the start of 2017 through 2018.

But unlike voluntary cuts by Saudi Arabia, Russia and others intended to stoke higher crude prices by draining a global glut, Venezuela has been unable to stop a now six-year-long production decline.

Insufficient investments, payment delays to suppliers, U.S. sanctions, and a brain drain have hammered Venezuela's oil industry. The production fall has hit oil exports – its only major source of foreign currency to repay debt - and refining, creating intermittent fuel scarcity in the country and at some of its main allies, such as Cuba.

An alleged crackdown on oil graft in the last few months, seen by critics as an effort by President Nicolas Maduro to consolidate power, has sown panic across the energy industry and all but paralyzed state oil company PDVSA, according to people at the firm and in the sector. It is a remarkable downfall for the OPEC member home to the world's biggest crude reserves.

"This is one of the worst collapses in history. It happened without an invasion like in Iraq, the breakup of a country like in the Soviet Union, or a civil war like in Libya," said Francisco Monaldi, a fellow in Latin American Energy Policy from Rice University's Baker Institute. Venezuela's oil ministry and PDVSA [PDVSA.UL] did not respond to a request for comment.

The output drop is likely to worsen a bitter recession and hyperinflation that have poor Venezuelans skipping meals or eating from the garbage.

Opposition politicians say Venezuela's inefficient state-led economic model and rampant corruption are to blame for the oil industry's meltdown.

"This is the most irresponsible act against the Venezuelan people. They destroyed the industry that generates almost 96 percent of the country's foreign revenue," said opposition lawmaker Elias Matta.

Socialist Maduro retorts that U.S.-backed opposition supporters have sabotaged the oil sector.

HOW LOW WILL IT GO?

Venezuela's oil gloom is set to persist this year, with the main question among analysts just how low its production will fall.

Just in December, Venezuela's output sank by 216,000 bpd from November to 1.621 million bpd, the OPEC figures showed, a 29-percent drop from December 2016 levels.

Venezuela's new oil czar, former housing minister General Manuel Quevedo, has vowed that output will rise to more than 2.4 million bpd this year. But Quevedo, who has no experience in the energy sector, has yet to provide a detailed plan.

January has seen an unprecedented surge in resignations, spurred by dislike of the new management and salaries that often do not allow workers to eat properly, current and former PDVSA employees say.

"They're desperate to maintain production. Increasing it is too difficult. Internal conditions are devastating," said one PDVSA employee, who asked to remain anonymous, referring to Quevedo's output recovery plan.

Still, the most vulnerable oilfields have already clocked the sharpest drops, according to Monaldi, which could limit this year's decline. He forecasts production to fall another 250,000 bpd-350,000 bpd in 2018, starting from December's average.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...lgc2p7WRjd0e6e23G&ampcf=1&cshid=1549257800639
 
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Bolton is talking Trump into"stabilizing" Syria ( such hubris) and won't be happy 'till he gets another
interventionism feather for his war bonnet
 
Not sure if I would stick with that. Maduro is immensely unpopular.


ct-venezuela-opposition-protest-maduro-20160901

Maduro though is quite popular among his countries people, even if they do not approve of the job he is doing, a major correction would be he is not popular outside venezuala. Another point is there have been pro maduro marches which outside of saturdays which the numbers are unknown maduro supporters outnumbered opposition supporters in protests.

People too quickly underestimate populism, as populism can be such a driving force it will gain govt support of the people even when marching them off a cliff.
 
Regarding the economic and financial warfare which the USA and its state and non-state allies are waging on Venezuela here is an informative article and some supporting documents.

https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/30/us-economic-warfare-venezuela/

Supporting documents:

Beware, this is a document from Wikileaks so US Federal Government employees may be restricted from linking to it. Proceed at your own risk.

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/us-fm3-05-130.pdf

Refer to pp. 159 - 177 for details on economic and financial warfare as part of the US Government's Unconvential Warfare suite of tools.

and from the US Treasury Department:

https://home.treasury.gov/index.php/news/press-releases/sm594

The preamble makes the purpose of the economic and financial warfare being waged very clear.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
An interesting interview about the nature of a possible military intervention into Venezuela using Columbian rebels allegedly operating out of Venezuelan territory as an excuse for a US-backed force of Columbians to move into Venezuela in order to protect humanitarian aid.



Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
"John Bolton has already publicly spoken on several occasions about how the planned regime change will lead to the dismantling of Venezuelan domestic control of the oil industry as the result of a large influx of American investment (and some more international investment) of the Venezuelan oil industry."

And this is a bad thing because..... USA

Right?

It was foreign investment that built the Venezuelan oil industry and allowed Venezuela a standard of living that other Latin American countries could only dream about.

Chavez and Maduro not only killed the Golden Goose, they stomped the nest flat and razed the barn.

Even though officially "nationalized" the Venezuelan chugged along producing oil in concert with their original foreign partners resulting in normal production and profits for all involved. Under Chavez production has stalled. New oil fields haven't been constructed IIRC. Chavez not only siphoned off profits from the oil industry into pet projects he then taxed oil production. In the strike of 2002-2003 thousands of experienced oil workers were replaced by "loyal" people with little to no experience. Later a military general was appointed head of the PDVSA giving military control over oil. Later even more military members were appointed supposedly to quell corruption and inefficiency (an interesting concept given the reputation of the military in South and Central America),.

Accountability of funds is no longer required opening the door to corruption
PDVSA has fallen to the point of importing and refining oil from outside Venezuela....


So.... Golden Goose with foreign investment and expertise. Dead Goose under Venezuelan command and control.

Wow.

Which route to choose?

Because stealing is bad...always has been....can I take possession of your house and do it on the idea that it isn't updated enough and I think I should now own it, because I can update it better?
 
Regarding the economic and financial warfare which the USA and its state and non-state allies are waging on Venezuela here is an informative article and some supporting documents.

https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/30/us-economic-warfare-venezuela/

Supporting documents:

Beware, this is a document from Wikileaks so US Federal Government employees may be restricted from linking to it. Proceed at your own risk.

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/us-fm3-05-130.pdf

Refer to pp. 159 - 177 for details on economic and financial warfare as part of the US Government's Unconvential Warfare suite of tools.

and from the US Treasury Department:

https://home.treasury.gov/index.php/news/press-releases/sm594

The preamble makes the purpose of the economic and financial warfare being waged very clear.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

A reposting of garbage from another thread.
 
A reposting of garbage from another thread.

Rogue Valley:

This is the original post and not the repost as you claim which was done on the following day in your Novo Banco thread. Details are important. So wrong again, good sir. The time stamps don't lie, unless the Maduro Regime and their evil confederates in Putin's Russia have infiltrated themselves into the DP Forum software and are messing with you! But that would be a discussion better held on the conspiracy theory forum.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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