Joe to make Roe vs Wade the law of the land

[Drawdown]

It's nearly impossible to criminalize having an abortion. As in, a woman could go somewhere else, another state, another country, a ship in international waters, and have one, and it would not be a criminal act. If you disagree, what would be the legal basis for the charge?

The most they can do is criminalize doing the procedure. And if it comes down to the states, many have already said they'd keep the procedure legal. I dont know what they could do at the federal level to prevent doing the procedure nationwide, that would be an interesting discussion.

Nope. While it is nearly impossible to stop people from having an abortion, it is not impossible to criminalize it. Extraterritorial jurisdiction allows US citizens to be prosecuted for overseas crimes if Congress authorizes it or something related to the crime happens in the US.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

THey can still be performed....what would stop them? Only STATE-level legislation would ban medical facilities/Drs from performing the procedure. Those states would 'stop' it, as you put it.

But many states have already stated they would maintain legal elective abortion. How does overturning RvW prevent this? Can you be specific?

Thanks for your response. Did some more reading and got my bearings straight.

If Roe were overturned by SCOTUS, it would essentially restart the abortion rights battle all over again. Existing unenforced states “trigger” laws would go into effect and both sides would initiate legal challenges.

Laws cannot be unconstitutional. (Actually they can, there are many that are just not challenged but IF challenged, they must undergo Constitutional scrutiny.)

So Congress cannot just criminalize a woman having an abortion. Again, if you think they can in a Const. fashion, please explain...but you must address the Const. aspects. Because Congress would have to (or be challenged).

Agreed. I am aware that unconstitutional laws are ruled on regularly.

I didn’t suggest that Congress can “just criminalize a woman having an abortion”. New federal legislation would have to be enacted in order for criminal sanctions to be imposed on those seeking and/or those who provide abortions.

The long stalled H.R. 36 - Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act is an example. If passed and signed into law, an abortion provider could be fined and/or imprisoned up to 5 years (no penalty for the woman).

H.R.36 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act

Summary of H.R.36 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act

www.congress.gov

Found this link to an interactive map of state laws some might useful;

Abortion Laws by State - Center for Reproductive Rights

The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade, so it’s crucial to understand abortion laws by state, and where abortion is protected. Learn more now.

reproductiverights.org

 

[RaleBulgarian]

See whatever you want... After almost fifty years, Roe vs. Wade is a done deal.
The overturning of R. v. W is deliberate fear mongering by the Democrats. It's simply a false narrative they're pushing in order to get votes. IOW, a load of donkey .

I don’t want to see Roe as facing a genuine threat. I’d much prefer that Roe be left as is, but many on the right, including Trump (strictly because of it’s political value), have been very active in trying to dismantle it. And with some successes too.

And it isn’t “fear mongering” to recognize what’s been happening over the last almost 4 years, along with the potential for change the vast majority of Americans do not want. It is however, head in the sand thinking to summarily dismiss any possible changes.

 

[Noodlegawd]

??? That's the opposite of how it works. If SCOTUS finds a state (or federal) law is not Constitutional, that law is over turned. It does not stand. And state laws cannot violate the rights recognized in the Const. (Well, as previously noted, some laws are unConst because they are not challenged in federal court.)

For ex. in the last 2 yrs, a handful of neanderthalic states passed laws that banned abortion at fetal heartbeat, others criminalized abortion, with prison terms for women and Drs. All have been challenged in federal court and none have been enacted. Of the cases that have been adjudicated, all were overturned as unconstitutional. Again, not a single one has been enacted.

You seem to be mistakenly assuming that the only way the Court could declare a law unconstitutional is if it violates the Bill of Rights.

 

[Lursa]

Nope. While it is nearly impossible to stop people from having an abortion, it is not impossible to criminalize it. Extraterritorial jurisdiction allows US citizens to be prosecuted for overseas crimes if Congress authorizes it or something related to the crime happens in the US.

Perhaps you missed other posts on this but there's no way for the govt to know anything about a woman's reproductive status when she travels.

Unless they impose pregnancy tests at state or international borders? And then retest on reentry? This has nothing to do with abortion, it's a gross violation of the 4th and 14th Amendments.

And then they would need to investigate in the region she had just travelled in...including international jurisdictions.

Also, every miscarriage even in the US would need to be investigated.

Any woman that does not wish to remain pregnant would have no trouble in the first months hiding it and dealing with it. It's been done for centuries.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Practically, I’m not sure how Biden could make Roe “law of the land” after SCOTUS finds it unconstitutional.

Illegitimate court. Trump judges.

 

[Lursa]

The long stalled H.R. 36 - Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act is an example. If passed and signed into law, an abortion provider could be fined and/or imprisoned up to 5 years (no penalty for the woman).

H.R.36 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act

Summary of H.R.36 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act

www.congress.gov

And why is it stalled? Because the medical science is faulty (one key reason). It's merely pandering.

 

[Lursa]

You seem to be mistakenly assuming that the only way the Court could declare a law unconstitutional is if it violates the Bill of Rights.

I was discussing state laws. But please, tell me what you are referring to, with source.

 

[iguanaman]

I dont see any way that, realistically, RvW can be overturned. If it is, I support Joe 100%.

States can make laws that effectively ban abortions without overturning Wade. They can place so many hurdles in the way that it is no longer an option. This seems to be the way men are going to force women to bear their children.

 

[Lursa]

States can make laws that effectively ban abortions without overturning Wade. They can place so many hurdles in the way that it is no longer an option. This seems to be the way men are going to force women to bear their children.

Yes, I know. Please read thru my posts.

My statement is that it is nearly impossible to criminalize 'having' an abortion.

And there are several states that do what you describe now, some very large states have only one facility and women have to go to other states anyway, often it's closer.

 

[mrjurrs]

Joe Biden Says if Amy Coney Barrett Overturns Roe v. Wade, He'll Make It 'The Law of the Land'


Former Vice President Joe Biden has said he'll move to protect abortion rights if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe v. Wade, the historic decision that protected a woman's right to have an abortion.

The Democratic presidential nominee told an NBC News town hall in Miami on Monday that if the historic ruling on abortion is overturned, his "only response to that is pass legislation making Roe the law of the land. That's what I would do."

Biden Says if Roe v. Wade Is Overturned, He'll Make It 'Law of the Land'

The Democratic presidential candidate said he will protect abortion rights even if the Supreme Court strikes them down.

www.newsweek.com

The republicans don't want this bill as it passes through the house and senate. It'll be them versus the women of America, something that will hurt them in elections for years to come.

Do you think Joe and the democrats will make Roe vs Wade the law of the land?

I think if D's win control of both houses and the executive, they will eliminate the filibuster and pass legislation on this and many other issues. The only way to overcome a lopsided judiciary is to pass constitutional laws.

 

[vegas giants]

The above post is correct. The most significant effect of Roe v. Wade was to preempt state law.

Without it, it goes to the states.

It depends on the ruling. They could outlaw it everywhere

 

[Lursa]

A ruling overturning RvW does not make abortion illegal.

 

[MaryP]

Joe Biden Says if Amy Coney Barrett Overturns Roe v. Wade, He'll Make It 'The Law of the Land'


Former Vice President Joe Biden has said he'll move to protect abortion rights if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe v. Wade, the historic decision that protected a woman's right to have an abortion.

The Democratic presidential nominee told an NBC News town hall in Miami on Monday that if the historic ruling on abortion is overturned, his "only response to that is pass legislation making Roe the law of the land. That's what I would do."

Biden Says if Roe v. Wade Is Overturned, He'll Make It 'Law of the Land'

The Democratic presidential candidate said he will protect abortion rights even if the Supreme Court strikes them down.

www.newsweek.com

The republicans don't want this bill as it passes through the house and senate. It'll be them versus the women of America, something that will hurt them in elections for years to come.

Do you think Joe and the democrats will make Roe vs Wade the law of the land?

No one has ever defied a Supreme Court ruling, and I don't want him to be the first. The law would be unconstitutional and it would be knocked down. We do NOT want to open that can of worms--you can kiss democratic government goodbye if we do.

 

[vegas giants]

A ruling overturning RvW does not make abortion illegal.

It could depending on the decision

 

[Noodlegawd]

I was discussing state laws. But please, tell me what you are referring to, with source.

I was talking about the topic of this thread, which is Biden (the possible future President of the United States) saying that he would make Roe v. Wade the law of the land, presumably by passing federal legislation prohibiting states from enacting abortion restrictions that would have violated Roe.

 

[Lursa]

I was talking about the topic of this thread, which is Biden (the possible future President of the United States) saying that he would make Roe v. Wade the law of the land, presumably by passing federal legislation prohibiting states from enacting abortion restrictions that would have violated Roe.

That's very possible. Those state-level restrictions would not stand if they were found unconstitutional. I explained it earlier. What is it that you are still questioning?

 

[Drawdown]

Perhaps you missed other posts on this but there's no way for the govt to know anything about a woman's reproductive status when she travels.

Unless they impose pregnancy tests at state or international borders? And then retest on reentry? This has nothing to do with abortion, it's a gross violation of the 4th and 14th Amendments.

And then they would need to investigate in the region she had just travelled in...including international jurisdictions.

Also, every miscarriage even in the US would need to be investigated.

Any woman that does not wish to remain pregnant would have no trouble in the first months hiding it and dealing with it. It's been done for centuries.

4th and 14th amendment stop at the same place your abortion barges begin....

I don't care either way too much. I was just pointing out that the courts have invented this weird jurisdiction for Americans abroad when it suits them. Sometimes it is related to RICO cases. Sometimes it is to stop people going overseas to hump kiddies. They leave it up to Congress mostly to decide when.

 

[Lursa]

4th and 14th amendment stop at the same place your abortion barges begin....

How so? Can you please explain?

I don't care either way too much. I was just pointing out that the courts have invented this weird jurisdiction for Americans abroad when it suits them. Sometimes it is related to RICO cases. Sometimes it is to stop people going overseas to hump kiddies. They leave it up to Congress mostly to decide when.

Well then your argument seems to amount to...'I dont know but I bet they can because that's what I want to believe.' I tried to provide plausible counter argument to focus the scenario on the realities of the law and the Const.

 

[Drawdown]

How so? Can you please explain?


Well then your argument seems to amount to...'I dont know but I bet they can because that's what I want to believe.' I tried to provide plausible counter argument to focus the scenario on the realities of the law and the Const.

US jurisdiction stops at the 13 mile offshore march except when the Congress says otherwise in which case the jurisdiction follows the citizen. That is the reality of the law and the constitution. I have already told you all you need to know to google it if you want to explore it further. I don't particularly agree with the policy, but it is what it is.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Do you think Joe and the democrats will make Roe vs Wade the law of the land?

They may try, but under the scenario we are discussing all it does is set up yet another court battle that would end up in front of the same Supreme Court to figure out... for the umpteenth time.

 

[Lursa]

US jurisdiction stops at the 13 mile offshore march except when the Congress says otherwise in which case the jurisdiction follows the citizen. That is the reality of the law and the constitution. I have already told you all you need to know to google it if you want to explore it further. I don't particularly agree with the policy, but it is what it is.

That doesnt address what I asked. I gave you the specific questions I had hoped you'd answer, about women at the border.

I have debated this many times. I have answers. If you didnt want to discuss it, why are you involved?

 

[ClaraD]

Joe Biden Says if Amy Coney Barrett Overturns Roe v. Wade, He'll Make It 'The Law of the Land'


Former Vice President Joe Biden has said he'll move to protect abortion rights if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe v. Wade, the historic decision that protected a woman's right to have an abortion.

The Democratic presidential nominee told an NBC News town hall in Miami on Monday that if the historic ruling on abortion is overturned, his "only response to that is pass legislation making Roe the law of the land. That's what I would do."

Biden Says if Roe v. Wade Is Overturned, He'll Make It 'Law of the Land'

The Democratic presidential candidate said he will protect abortion rights even if the Supreme Court strikes them down.

www.newsweek.com

The republicans don't want this bill as it passes through the house and senate. It'll be them versus the women of America, something that will hurt them in elections for years to come.

Do you think Joe and the democrats will make Roe vs Wade the law of the land?

they may....I think perhaps since it is settled that it should be made into our law...and defined specifically as to what is and is not acceptable. There are Republican senators that would vote with Democrats on this.

 

[ClaraD]

In that country. Traveling across US borders for the purpose of committing what is a crime in the US in another country can itself be a crime.

actually, no...the only exception to this is when there are joint agreements such as drug trafficking, sex trafficking, etc...and all of the evidence gathering, etc has to be within the confines of the US constitution, which frequently does not happen in foreign countries. You wouldn't be able to prosecute someone for having an abortion that is legal in another country...because it is legal there. It is like trying to prosecute someone for going to Norway to smoke a dubie and coming back.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Joe Biden Says if Amy Coney Barrett Overturns Roe v. Wade, He'll Make It 'The Law of the Land'


Former Vice President Joe Biden has said he'll move to protect abortion rights if the Supreme Court strikes down Roe v. Wade, the historic decision that protected a woman's right to have an abortion.

The Democratic presidential nominee told an NBC News town hall in Miami on Monday that if the historic ruling on abortion is overturned, his "only response to that is pass legislation making Roe the law of the land. That's what I would do."

Biden Says if Roe v. Wade Is Overturned, He'll Make It 'Law of the Land'

The Democratic presidential candidate said he will protect abortion rights even if the Supreme Court strikes them down.

www.newsweek.com

The republicans don't want this bill as it passes through the house and senate. It'll be them versus the women of America, something that will hurt them in elections for years to come.

Do you think Joe and the democrats will make Roe vs Wade the law of the land?

If RVW is deemed unconstitutional then a law made by democrats would be unconstitutional as well, and the court would overturn that.