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Joe Biden: Great ideas of the last 200 years needed government

Did all the great ideas of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries need government?


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Only Al Gore gets credit for the Internet.

Now in all fairness to Al - he really didn't say that he invented the Internet. (But I'll bet dollars to donuts he thinks about it from time to time.):lol:
 
:lamo

I guess words and phrases just mean whatever you want them to mean. That's pretty convenient. Totally insane, but convenient.

There's not much more to say to you if you aren't willing to recognize the agreed-upon definitions of words. :shrug:

Pretty convenient to take things to an absurd degree of literal you could never apply in real life because it suits your argument in an internet forum.
 
What we HAVE said, is that PRIVATE ENTERPRISE has been and always will be the driving force behind MOST important discoveries, inventions and ideas. Only a few here seem to think otherwise.

"Important" Like the mach 3 razor :lol:
 
Certainly no argument there. That doesn't mean that government played no important role.



I posted what I considered the most important modern inventions, and highlighted the significant role government played in each of them. Since you must have missed them, here they are again:

1. Automobiles (interstate highway system)
2. Airplanes (airports)
3. The internet (DARPA)
4. Television (FCC assigning broadcast channels)
5. Telephone (phone lines infrastructure - joint public/private effort)
6. Electricity (power grid)
7. Plumbing (public sanitation/sewer systems)
8. Antibiotics (large public health campaigns)
9. High-yield crops (public R&D)

The other way to look at these items you posted are that they are some of the most highly regulated, taxed and skimmed money makers for government. These regulations have given the government the excuse to increase the size of the bureaucracy by leaps and bounds. For example, the FCC regulating access to the internet, as well as Television and Radio. Yet, the government did little to actually incentivize the CREATION of radio and television. The only thing I can credit them with is identifying these things as money makers and then regulating them and increasing their power over them. Then we have airplanes --- TSA, FAA, and a few more alphabet soup organizations. Telephone? FCC again. Electricity - well the EPA is involved recently, and of course there's the Dept. of Energy. Antibiotics? There's tons of health organizations doing oversight and control over anything from asprin to drugs used for lethal injections.

I'm not saying the FAA isn't needed, or that the Dept. of Energy is a waste ... certainly a portion of these regulations are for safety and there are positives that go along with them. The by product though, is a vast bureaucracy regulating every and all things. There is not, one thing in your or anyone's house in the United States that is not regulated. From stuffed animals, to the timber or wall board, light bulbs, computer, and paint --- ALL of it is regulated. I submit all of that power is not needed and to go full circle back to the original point --- those regulations are not incentives for the creation of the product or that government can take credit for invention or innovations that were put forth. Government simply stepped in and passed laws regulating these things primarily to make money on them, and secondarily to claim such regulations are required for "safety" reasons. Therefore government, according to Pete Stark, can do anything they want.
 
since we are waxing poetic, let's also talk up all the great progress man made with slave labor too.

Great things can be accomplished when you force people to do things against their will, but I don't see why people are so proud of that fact.
 
The other way to look at these items you posted are that they are some of the most highly regulated, taxed and skimmed money makers for government. These regulations have given the government the excuse to increase the size of the bureaucracy by leaps and bounds. For example, the FCC regulating access to the internet, as well as Television and Radio. Yet, the government did little to actually incentivize the CREATION of radio and television. The only thing I can credit them with is identifying these things as money makers and then regulating them and increasing their power over them. Then we have airplanes --- TSA, FAA, and a few more alphabet soup organizations. Telephone? FCC again. Electricity - well the EPA is involved recently, and of course there's the Dept. of Energy. Antibiotics? There's tons of health organizations doing oversight and control over anything from asprin to drugs used for lethal injections.

I'm not saying the FAA isn't needed, or that the Dept. of Energy is a waste ... certainly a portion of these regulations are for safety and there are positives that go along with them. The by product though, is a vast bureaucracy regulating every and all things. There is not, one thing in your or anyone's house in the United States that is not regulated. From stuffed animals, to the timber or wall board, light bulbs, computer, and paint --- ALL of it is regulated. I submit all of that power is not needed and to go full circle back to the original point --- those regulations are not incentives for the creation of the product or that government can take credit for invention or innovations that were put forth. Government simply stepped in and passed laws regulating these things primarily to make money on them, and secondarily to claim such regulations are required for "safety" reasons. Therefore government, according to Pete Stark, can do anything they want.

Outstanding response post.
 
Pretty convenient to take things to an absurd degree of literal you could never apply in real life because it suits your argument in an internet forum.
Yeah, silly words and their meanings. What was I thinking? :roll:
 
I thought the GOP was the 'party of no'.. no middle gorund, no compromsie, etc. Seems like the right leaners in this thread all are willing to compromise and give the federal government 'some' credit for participation in 'some' of the most important ideas, inventions, concepts, etc... just not ALL like Biden claimed. However, the lefties don't seem willing to accept our compromise.

Who is the party of 'no' now...
 
No, YOU are the one parsing his offhand choice of words, like it's a contract. :roll:
Why don't you instead talk about his general point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.
Because Biden's claim, not the "general point", is the issue here?
 
“Every single great idea that has marked the 21st century, the 20th century and the 19th century has required government vision and government incentive,” he said. “In the middle of the Civil War you had a guy named Lincoln paying people $16,000 for every 40 miles of track they laid across the continental United States… No private enterprise would have done that for another 35 years.”

- Joe Biden, Manhattan Fund raising even 10/26/2010 - NY Daily News

Think about some of the things you use every day. Some of the biggest inventions that have changed the way we live over the past 200 years. Our health. Transportation. Communication. Did all of those great ideas need government vision and government incentive?


Now take the poll.

There are some projects that are too big that no private corporation can do without the government being heavily involved.
 
Ockham said:
Every single great idea that has marked the 21st century, the 20th century and the 19th century has required government vision and government incentive,” he said. “In the middle of the Civil War you had a guy named Lincoln paying people $16,000 for every 40 miles of track they laid across the continental United States… No private enterprise would have done that for another 35 years.”

- Joe Biden, Manhattan Fund raising even 10/26/2010 - NY Daily News

Think about some of the things you use every day. Some of the biggest inventions that have changed the way we live over the past 200 years. Our health. Transportation. Communication. Did all of those great ideas need government vision and government incentive?


Now take the poll.

There are some projects that are too big that no private corporation can do without the government being heavily involved.

SOME is a fair statement. EVERY SINGLE is not. WOuld you agree then that Biden was incorrect?
 
There are some projects that are too big that no private corporation can do without the government being heavily involved.
Yes... and some that are not.
If Biden is correct, then the above statement is false.
 
I thought the GOP was the 'party of no'.. no middle gorund, no compromsie, etc. Seems like the right leaners in this thread all are willing to compromise and give the federal government 'some' credit for participation in 'some' of the most important ideas, inventions, concepts, etc... just not ALL like Biden claimed. However, the lefties don't seem willing to accept our compromise.

Who is the party of 'no' now...
It depends on what you mean by "no". :lamo
 
No, YOU are the one parsing his offhand choice of words, like it's a contract. :roll:
Why don't you instead talk about his general point that government plays an important role in technology, instead of doing the lawyerly crap.

Why dont 'you' address your incorrect assertions about the list you provided, which has been counterpointed twice in this thread? Not willing to defend your own statements?
 
SOME is a fair statement. EVERY SINGLE is not. WOuld you agree then that Biden was incorrect?

Without a doubt, Biden was incorrect. Sadly there seems to be some sort of anti-invention movement going on in the US. It feels like progress is being stalled because too many people feel that the government should be the one doing it or no one else. And that is a bad thing.
 
Don't mock the Mach. Anyway, that's one of hndreds upon hundreds of great ideas that the federal government had zip to do with.

What we do need is balance. Things being out of balanced caused this recent and on-going depression.
In many areas, our governments have gone too far,IMO.
In other areas(financial regulation) NOT far enough.
In truth, our governments have directly and indirectly contributed to all of the inventions.
I think the problem is that we have anti-government people who are unwilling to look at things , deeply.
 
In truth, our governments have directly and indirectly contributed to all of the inventions.
I think the problem is that we have anti-government people who are unwilling to look at things , deeply.

Simply untrue, as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.

I think the real problem is that we have pro-government people who are unwilling to look at things , realistically.
 
Awesome! said:
My advice would be to read Biden's book: Promises to Keep. Amazon is selling for 2.60 from the original 25.95 retail. Such a small price to learn about the man, the essence that makes Joe Biden, the intellectual, the storyteller, the American hero and brilliant government mind...Our country owe's a debt to this legend...

What exactly has he done that makes him an 'American Hero'? Specifically. No generalities please.

As for 'brilliant government mind', this is the man that wanted to split Iraq into three different parts, remember? Brilliant is pretty much the opposite of Joe Biden.

cricket... cricket... cricket...
 
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