• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

"Joe Biden’s Abortion Extremism"

So If I asked all those nice anti-abortion people marching around the capitol every January (except this year) whose life they were celebrating everybody would solemnly intone, "We are celebrating everyone's life, all lives."

Right!
From the Right to Life March website comes this little gem celebrating everybody's life
TOGETHER,
WE STAND FOR
THE UNBORN

Abortion is the most significant human rights abuse of our time. Will you take a stand?
JOIN US FOR THE
NATIONAL MARCH FOR LIFE

Washington, D.C. | January 21, 2022

So much for the fathers and mothers and already born children and grandparents etc. The smarmy hypocrisy and inability to be honest are the least charming characteristics of the anti-abortion movement.
Born people are very expensive. Being pro fetus costs nothing
 
Over 250 posts now - has anyone here determined what the "extremism" in the OP is actually referring to?

I won't be holding my breath...
 
So If I asked all those nice anti-abortion people marching around the capitol every January (except this year) whose life they were celebrating everybody would solemnly intone, "We are celebrating everyone's life, all lives."

Right!
From the Right to Life March website comes this little gem celebrating everybody's life
TOGETHER,
WE STAND FOR
THE UNBORN

Abortion is the most significant human rights abuse of our time. Will you take a stand?
JOIN US FOR THE
NATIONAL MARCH FOR LIFE

Washington, D.C. | January 21, 2022

So much for the fathers and mothers and already born children and grandparents etc. The smarmy hypocrisy and inability to be honest are the least charming characteristics of the anti-abortion movement.

Sophistry for the loss, Weaver. You're old enough to know the origins of the March for Life and its focus on abortion. March for Life (Washington, D.C.) - Wikipedia

And you're smart enough to realize that other groups, inclusive of all who are already born, already do have rights to life (although it's also true that globally, very difficult triage decisions have had to be made because of COVID).

If I had been marching in D.C. and had asked me, I would have responded just the way I have posted for many years: There is dignity and worth in every human life, but some are more likely to be marginalized than others--the very old, the very sick, the very disabled, and the most vulnerable of us all, the unborn. Respecting life is about respecting ALL life, and yes, I do worry about those who are most likely to be marginalized, which includes but are not limited to the unborn.

I am going to assume in good faith that you have visited nursing homes and are familiar with the fact that for some, these are dumping grounds in which to be forgotten...that you have familiarity with state "schools" for the hopelessly mentally damaged and that you understand how little thought is given by most to those who are vulnerable because of profound disabilities.
 
Over 250 posts now - has anyone here determined what the "extremism" in the OP is actually referring to?

I won't be holding my breath...
of course not, its made up hyperbole lol
 
Sophistry for the loss, Weaver. You're old enough to know the origins of the March for Life and its focus on abortion. March for Life (Washington, D.C.) - Wikipedia
And you're smart enough to realize that other groups, inclusive of all who are already born, already do have rights to life (although it's also true that globally, very difficult triage decisions have had to be made because of COVID).

If I had been marching in D.C. and had asked me, I would have responded just the way I have posted for many years: There is dignity and worth in every human life, but some are more likely to be marginalized than others--the very old, the very sick, the very disabled, and the most vulnerable of us all, the unborn. Respecting life is about respecting ALL life, and yes, I do worry about those who are most likely to be marginalized, which includes but are not limited to the unborn.

I am going to assume in good faith that you have visited nursing homes and are familiar with the fact that for some, these are dumping grounds in which to be forgotten...that you have familiarity with state "schools" for the hopelessly mentally damaged and that you understand how little thought is given by most to those who are vulnerable because of profound disabilities.
Youbrought up the Right to Life March not me and I seldom use fallacious arguments. They aren't honest and they waste my time. And yes you make a lot of noise about dignity and respect for all lives but when we are talking about abortion there is a lazer like focus, to the exclusion of everyone else, on the fetus. I have never read any post by you that shows the least concern for the already born children or the grandparents that so often shoulder the responsibility of raising an unplanned and unwanted child. I can't think of any post that discusses care and respect for the lives of the father or mother but you've extolled the value of the fetus innumerable times.

The elderly and the handicapped live in some of the worst and some of the best insititutions. What is your point? We are talking about the lives of born people able to experience the pain and tragedy of an unwanted child. And you are saying they are less worthy than a non-seeing non-feeling, non-aware fetus. You would condem a poor family into deeper poverty to fulfil your religious belief that a fetus has value greater than an entire family?

March for life of the fetus. Play at elevating the fetus above women's rights. Just don't expect much sympathy for your cause from people who think in broader terms of what has value and what benefits society.
 
Youbrought up the Right to Life March not me and I seldom use fallacious arguments. They aren't honest and they waste my time. And yes you make a lot of noise about dignity and respect for all lives but when we are talking about abortion there is a lazer like focus, to the exclusion of everyone else, on the fetus.
There is no dignity or respect for a woman when you are protesting and praying that she do something against her will, that she cant do in good conscience, cant afford, cant do and care for her other dependents, cant do and uphold her commitments to employer, church, community, society.

It's completely disrespectful and denial of her dignity to assume that strangers know better than the woman what she needs to do with and in her life. It's placing THEIR beliefs and desires ABOVE what the woman needs. It's placing the life of the unborn above hers. It's complete arrogance and self-righteousness.
 
Last edited:
Youbrought up the Right to Life March not me and I seldom use fallacious arguments. They aren't honest and they waste my time. And yes you make a lot of noise about dignity and respect for all lives but when we are talking about abortion there is a lazer like focus, to the exclusion of everyone else, on the fetus. I have never read any post by you that shows the least concern for the already born children or the grandparents that so often shoulder the responsibility of raising an unplanned and unwanted child. I can't think of any post that discusses care and respect for the lives of the father or mother but you've extolled the value of the fetus innumerable times.

The elderly and the handicapped live in some of the worst and some of the best insititutions. What is your point? We are talking about the lives of born people able to experience the pain and tragedy of an unwanted child. And you are saying they are less worthy than a non-seeing non-feeling, non-aware fetus. You would condem a poor family into deeper poverty to fulfil your religious belief that a fetus has value greater than an entire family?

March for life of the fetus. Play at elevating the fetus above women's rights. Just don't expect much sympathy for your cause from people who think in broader terms of what has value and what benefits society.

I don't even expect any understanding.

As for posts from me on concern for already-born children and etc., you've been at DP for a year and a half. When I first joined DP, I posted more frequently in the Abortion forum than any other, but I stopped posting here years ago because of the futility of it all. Just because you haven't read my opinions doesn't mean that I haven't shared them multiple times. It also doesn't mean that I don't put my time/treasure into helping poor families. I do, and basically daily. The work includes feeding and clothing the hungry, helping those without transportation keep medical appointments, and assisting in ending the cycle of poverty by helping others escape from predatory loans.
 
I don't even expect any understanding.

As for posts from me on concern for already-born children and etc., you've been at DP for a year and a half. When I first joined DP, I posted more frequently in the Abortion forum than any other, but I stopped posting here years ago because of the futility of it all. Just because you haven't read my opinions doesn't mean that I haven't shared them multiple times. It also doesn't mean that I don't put my time/treasure into helping poor families. I do, and basically daily. The work includes feeding and clothing the hungry, helping those without transportation keep medical appointments, and assisting in ending the cycle of poverty by helping others escape from predatory loans.

I applaude your work. It is valuable and respected by all. It shows great humanitarianism. It's not however what we were talking about. Your posts on abortion show no respect, no sense that you care or value any life other than that of the fetus nor any support for the low cost distribution of highly effective women's contraceptives that help keep families out of the kind of abject poverty you are involved in helping.
 
Last edited:
I applaude your work. It is valuable and respected by all. It shows great humanitarianism. It's not however what we were talking about. Your posts on abortion show no respect, no sense that you care or value any life other than that of the fetus.

Well, then, there you go. If you think that I don't have respect for life other than the fetus, there is really nothing I can say to you.
 
I applaude your work. It is valuable and respected by all. It shows great humanitarianism. It's not however what we were talking about. Your posts on abortion show no respect, no sense that you care or value any life other than that of the fetus nor any support for the low cost distribution of highly effective women's contraceptives that help keep families out of the kind of abject poverty you are involved in helping.

Just my opinion but I wouldn't say the "no respect" part is accurate. ..

its more like a hierarchy based on situation and circumstances.

In the case of abortion yes that person's posts factually show she views the woman as the lesser compared to the ZEF and that the woman's legal and human rights are most definitely secondary . . .

but I wouldnt say that means NO respect . . .just less than the ZEF. The ZEF is first and the woman is second class.
 
Last edited:
Just my opinion but I wouldn't say the "no respect" part is accurate. .. its more like a hierarchy based on situation and circumstances. In the case of abortion yes that person's posts factually show she views the woman as the lesses compared to the ZEF and that the woman's legal and human rights are most definitely secondary . . . but I wouldnt say that means NO respect . . .just less than the ZEF. The ZEF is first and the woman is second class.

Abortion is not a situation where one can value the life of both the family and the fetus. One can mourn the death of one or the other but mourning the dead is not the same as valuing the living. The aim of the anti-abortion movement is to insert their religious beliefs into a family's private life and take control of their decision making. Their goal is to deny families the right to make extremely personal, life changing decisions about their private lives. And there are no exceptions, unless there is risk of the woman's death. One either values the woman's and her family's decision and the fetus is aborted or one values the fetuses life and the family's hopes for a life out of poverty or dysfuntion are aborted. There is no second class in the value of life.
 
Last edited:
Abortion is not a situation where one can value the life of both the family and the fetus. One can mourn the death of one or the other but mourning the dead is not the same as valuing the living. The aim of the anti-abortion movement is to insert their religious beliefs into a family's private life and take control of their decision making. Their goal is to deny families the right to make extremely personal, life changing decisions about their private lives. And there are no exceptions, unless there is risk of the woman's death. One either values the woman's and her family's decision and the fetus is aborted or one values the fetuses life and the family's hopes for a life out of poverty or dysfuntion are aborted. There is no second class in the value of life.

Im pro life and I agree with SOME of what you posted but how does any of that change or relate to my post about that other person's views?
 
Im pro life and I agree with SOME of what you posted but how does any of that change or relate to my post about that other person's views?

Ah, the other person's views. Well, based on what I have seen of their posts there are multiple references to good works as proof that they value lives other than the fetuses. But those references are never situations that include a fetus. When the question of abortion comes up the poster has stated on several occasions that the fetus is the only entity that has value. Neither the mother or the father or already born children or the family itself has the value in God's eyes and therefor the posters eyes that the fetus has. The justification is always the same: the fetus has a right to life that is not extended to the already born. No matter how much charitable work is done for the already born it doesn't compensate for the fact that when it comes to abortion the fetus is valued above all .
 
Ah, the other person's views. Well, based on what I have seen of their posts there are multiple references to good works as proof that they value lives other than the fetuses. But those references are never situations that include a fetus. When the question of abortion comes up the poster has stated on several occasions that the fetus is the only entity that has value. Neither the mother or the father or already born children or the family itself has the value in God's eyes and therefor the posters eyes that the fetus has. The justification is always the same: the fetus has a right to life that is not extended to the already born. No matter how much charitable work is done for the already born it doesn't compensate for the fact that when it comes to abortion the fetus is valued above all .

the bolded is spot on. . . .like I said, when it comes to abortion their posted views clearly show the woman is second and so are her legal and human rights . .
 
Im pro life and I agree with SOME of what you posted but how does any of that change or relate to my post about that other person's views?

The the author and title of this thread are interesting. Ms Bene believes Biden's actions on birth control are etxteme. Extreme in this case means repealing Trump's EO to stop funding women's sexual health clinics in foreign countries. By law abortions are never funded by the US with any aid package anywhere in the world. The aid is strictly to provide contraceptives, education, counseling and treating STD. Why is this considered extreme? Because the some of the contraceptives offered by these clinics are considered abortafacients by evangelicals and the Catholic Church. Again we find the fetus taking precedence over the mother desperate to stop serial pregnancies and the family that is stuck in poverty because there are too many children. There is value only for the fetus and none for the parents and the already born children.
 
The the author and title of this thread are interesting. Ms Bene believes Biden's actions on birth control are etxteme. Extreme in this case means repealing Trump's EO to stop funding women's sexual health clinics in foreign countries. By law abortions are never dsfunded by the US with any aid package anywhere in the world. The aid is strictly to provide contraceptives, education, counseling and treating STD. Why is this considered extreme? Because the some of the contraceptives offered by these clinics are considered abortafacients by evangelicals and the Catholic Church. Again we find the fetus taking precedence over the mother desperate to stop serial pregnancies and the family that is stuck in poverty because there are too many children. There is value only for the fetus and none for the parents and the already born children.

The question was asked in this thread what was joe bidens "extremism" no logical and actual answers were given that I saw . . . seems VERY telling . . .but maybe i missed them though, thats very possible 🤷‍♂️
 
The question was asked in this thread what was joe bidens "extremism" no logical and actual answers were given that I saw . . . seems VERY telling . . .but maybe i missed them though, thats very possible 🤷‍♂️

I think you are right. Nobody gave any actual answers describing Biden's "extremism" But the only thing he has done about that involves reproduction is repeal Trumps EO prohibiting aid to foreign countries for women's sexual health clinics. The Catholic Church and the evangelicals counted Trump's EO as a huge triumph. And in a sense it was. It closed many clinics world wide. It also sent a signal to conservative governments in other countries that it was OK to deny other health services to women. I mentioned as an example Eritrea's closing of the clinic where a friend was volunteering her services as a pediatric gastroenterologist instructing rural nurses on counteracting diarrhea in newborns.
 
" The few remaining members who began their congressional careers in the 1990s or earlier switched their positions to conform to party norms, as happened with senior Appropriations Committee member Kay Granger (R-Tex.), who has become more antiabortion, and Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio), who has become more supportive of abortion rights. "

" Even Republican women such as Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (Wash.), Jackie Walorski (Ind.) and Ann Wagner (Mo.), who in the past supported such Democratic proposals as the Violence Against Women Act, are voting uniformly on party lines even on family planning issues such as allowing states to deny Title X family planning funding to groups that also provide abortions, such as Planned Parenthood. "



"The Hyde Amendment’s uncertain future
A more strongly pro-abortion-rights House Democratic caucus has become more willing to challenge the Hyde Amendment, all the way up to the committee and party leadership. But the parties are so polarized on abortion issues that few Republicans — even Republican women — are likely to support letting the amendment lapse by not including the restrictions in appropriations bills.

" As a result, it will be very difficult for Democrats to overcome a filibuster threat in the Senate. And the few remaining antiabortion Democrats, such as Sen. Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, could hold up passage in that chamber. "









Will the Covid-19 funding bill have the Hyde Abortion Limiting amendment?


Views 1 K

//
 
Last edited:
In Exodus, Chapter 21 vs 22, the Holy Bible provides for a penalty of a fine, for the accidental causing of a miscarriage. The same chapter calls for the death penalty for causing the death of an actual human. Thereby a fetus is less than human, according to the Holy Bible.
 
"The Hyde Amendment’s uncertain future
A more strongly pro-abortion-rights House Democratic caucus has become more willing to challenge the Hyde Amendment, all the way up to the committee and party leadership. But the parties are so polarized on abortion issues that few Republicans — even Republican women — are likely to support letting the amendment lapse by not including the restrictions in appropriations bills. " As a result, it will be very difficult for Democrats to overcome a filibuster threat in the Senate. And the few remaining antiabortion Democrats, such as Sen. Joe Manchin III of West Virginia, could hold up passage in that chamber. "

Did some checking. Apparently Biden has said he would work to overturn the Hyde. I would welcome it's demise and that has nothing to do with abortion. I object to the idea that political groups have a right to pick and choose what "their" tax dollars support. It's a philosophy that is destructive of democacy.
 
In Exodus, Chapter 21 vs 22, the Holy Bible provides for a penalty of a fine, for the accidental causing of a miscarriage. The same chapter calls for the death penalty for causing the death of an actual human. Thereby a fetus is less than human, according to the Holy Bible.
What it proves is that God values women more than the unborn. I do have those scriptures on hand and a couple of translations. The pro-life people just ignore it tho.

This one supports your claim better, it shows how God views the unborn as transient and insubstantial. Not yet having a soul.

Psalms 58:8 "Let them be as a snail which melts away as it goes along, like the miscarriages of a woman which never see the sun."​

It's used as an example in an analogy...so then most pro-lifers use that as an excuse to say "God didnt say the unborn is like slug slime!" Apparently many pro-lifers have problems understanding grammar school-level analogies.
 
"Washington D.C., Feb 12, 2021 / 02:00 pm MT (CNA).- Members of Congress on Thursday debated abortion funding restrictions in a proposed COVID relief package, with one member comparing abortion coverage to cancer treatments. "


"During a markup of COVID relief in the House Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Jackie Walorski (R-Ill.) introduced an amendment to ensure protections against funding of abortions in health coverage.

The relief measure would fund COBRA health insurance premiums for unemployed workers, and Walorski’s amendment would have ensured that federal subsidies could not pay for abortion coverage.

“I believe every human life is precious, and taxpayers should not be forced to pay for the destruction of life,” Walorski said on Thursday. Her amendment failed in committee."






Views 2 K

//
 
Last edited:
"Washington D.C., Feb 12, 2021 / 02:00 pm MT (CNA).- Members of Congress on Thursday debated abortion funding restrictions in a proposed COVID relief package, with one member comparing abortion coverage to cancer treatments. "
"During a markup of COVID relief in the House Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Jackie Walorski (R-Ill.) introduced an amendment to ensure protections against funding of abortions in health coverage.
The relief measure would fund COBRA health insurance premiums for unemployed workers, and Walorski’s amendment would have ensured that federal subsidies could not pay for abortion coverage.

“I believe every human life is precious, and taxpayers should not be forced to pay for the destruction of life,” Walorski said on Thursday. Her amendment failed in committee."

"United we stand, divided we fall" means that you don't get to exempt out your pet peeve from the law. I happen to think that the channeling of the Mississippi Delta has cost billions of dollars in hurricane destruction, wildlife and fishing losses to say nothing of the lives lost in hurricanes and flooding. My taxes still go to channeling because the majority of Congress wants channeling. An overwhelming majority of the public and Congressional members want universal health care which includes birth control and support for abortion. They have sound economic, social and psychological reasons unlike Ms Walorski's reason that her church bunch likes to pretend that "unborn children" are sacred.
 
Back
Top Bottom