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Jobless Claims Rise By 6,000!!!

gordontravels

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This is the headline in the Washington Post this morning. That's 4,000 more than the government was expecting. This is absolutely horrible news for the Bush Administration. Can't you hear it now? President Bush doesn't know what he's doing or he is deliberately causing people to lose their jobs. How can he do this to us? Three time the job losses than his own government envisioned. He's got to be planning and plotting behind closed doors to harm his fellow Americans. Many people usually just read the headline and the first few paragraphs and this story tells it all. The Bush Administration is punishing American workers.

Oh. Down in the article a little further it says that last month 207,000 jobs were created, the highest in 3 months. So what, right?
:duel :cool:
 

ShamMol

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Wait, jobless claims rise by 6k, so they rise by that to what? That is what my question is. Honestly I don't care that much, but I just wanted to ask you why you start all your topics with that little head...little wierd.
 

Arch Enemy

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ShamMol said:
Wait, jobless claims rise by 6k, so they rise by that to what? That is what my question is. Honestly I don't care that much, but I just wanted to ask you why you start all your topics with that little head...little wierd.
We have a name for people like him... um... attention whores.

That's why his letters are akward, same for all the emotes. He's seeking attention, obviously he gets it.
 

ShamMol

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Well, I hadn't really noticed it before today about the heads so I was just wondering...I have let go about the letters, if he wants to alienate people before they read his writing, that is his business and nobody elses.
 

gordontravels

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If you don't care about the post then there is nothing to debate. As far as my use of emotes or how I post, you will see it easily and will be able to just skip it without having to read anything I write. Consider it a favor from me or a problem you have; either way you have your rights. Anything I post are my words from my own due diligence. The style I decide to use and the additions to that post are provided for by this forum. Recently they even made it easier to post using those two lines above to the "Reply to Thread" box.

I've been posting this way since I came to the forum and at least one of you has debated with me. I must be doing something right if you bring this up at this late date.

If you have a problem with my post other than the information that I write then just skip me. I would imagine you only took the time to respond here because you don't like what I posted but your argument based on emotes or colors or fonts is very weak. Weakness, not a problem I have. So please, skip me and I won't notice and won't have to debate someone that "doesn't care".
:duel :cool:
 

ShamMol

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Umm...I actually did ask a question about the actual facts in the post of which I am not certain.
 

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Now this is an email I recieved earlier today from my party's state chairman. In this email it shows an unemployment chart comparing the unemployment in Michigan my state and The United states in general and if you look at that chart Michigan is doing a lot worse then the U.S in general. So I'll just post the email for you and this is an artical from the Detroit news.

Thursday, August 18, 2005


Michigan's unemployment rate rises to 7% in July, and economists predict an even bleaker future.

By Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News





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Michigan's job picture worsened in July and a wave of expected layoffs throughout the auto industry and other sectors could mean things will get worse before they get better.

As most of the nation saw strong job growth, Michigan's unemployment rate climbed to 7 percent in July from 6.8 percent in June. The nation's jobless rate is 5 percent.

"Overall, it looks like a real struggle here for a while," said Dana Johnson, chief economist for Comerica Inc.

The July numbers are a snapshot that doesn't fully reflect the storm clouds hovering over Michigan's economy.

Major auto companies including General Motors Corp.and Ford Motor Co. plan to cut thousands of jobs in the coming months and years, and possibly close local plants.

By the end of the summer, GM will have shuttered a plant in Lansing, and other plants may be vulnerable. Ford's Wixom plant appears likely to close after 2007, industry analysts say.

The world's largest auto supplier, Troy-based Delphi Corp. is threatening bankruptcy, and rival Visteon Corp. in Van Buren Township is preparing to shed 24 plants and thousands of jobs.

Delphi has 14,700 workers, and Visteon employs 6,000 salaried workers and thousands of hourly workers.

Kmart is moving its headquarters to Illinois due to its merger with Sears Roebuck Co., which means the loss of nearly 2,000 jobs in Troy. And Farmer Jack has only closed six of its planned dozen store closures in Michigan.

"Look at the data: There is no turnaround. There is no other major growth in other sectors that can offset the losses," or the impact of more layoffs, said Lansing-based economist Patrick Anderson.

Comerica's Johnson said layoffs by automakers aren't anything new to the state. But the potential for large job losses in other industries could compound the state's problems.

In July, seasonal layoffs in the auto industry due to factory shutdowns in July resulted in 10,000 fewer manufacturing jobs compared to June, according to the Michigan Department of Labor & Economic Growth. There was also a loss of 6,000 jobs in the trade, transportation and utilities sector, which includes retail jobs. Overall, the state lost 17,000 jobs in July compared to June.

The most substantial job growth in July came with an 8,000-job increase in professional and business services.

The number of education and health service jobs increased by about 2,000 from June to July.

The education and health services sector has shown the most improvement since July 2004, adding an estimated 8,000 jobs.

"The only sliver of a silver lining is that the tourism industry has held its own," said Anderson. Tourism jobs have held steady from a year ago July, showing a 1,000 job gain.

Many Michigan workers talk of trying to survive an economy where joblessness and underemployment have become pervasive.

"It's like trying to balance everything on a string," Sara Lopez, 33, of Taylor, said Wednesday. Since losing her eight-year job at Frank's Nursery & Crafts last summer when the Troy-based retailer went bankrupt, she's been scraping by with part-time jobs.

She's working at two fast-food chains near the Detroit Metropolitan Airport, which often results in a 12-hour day. On Tuesday, her day started at 5 a.m. for a morning shift at one eatery, and an afternoon shift at the other chain began at 1 p.m. Between the shifts, she often parks her 10-year-old minivan in an empty parking lot of a closed hotel and sleeps.

"My kids need school supplies," she said, explaining her long hours.

Her husband, Danny, has worked in construction this summer ever since losing his forklift job at an Ecorse trucking company in November.

Their fluid jobs are turning ordinary decisions into family dilemmas. "My 14-year-old wants to play football for his high school this year, and, you know, that's a hard choice, " Lopez said. "If he really gets hurt, that could ruin us, because we ain't got no health insurance. How (do) you explain something like that (to a child)?"

Shalamayne Humphrey of Hazel Park says many companies and others are starting to prey on the jobless. She says she spent 10 months at a vocational school with the promise of a health care job after completing her training. That was a year ago and still no job.

"All I got was debt" Humphrey, 27, said recently as she waited outside the Michigan Works! office, a work force development agency in Southgate.

"I doubt anyone in my class got a job. People will believe anything right now if they think they can get a good job."

Metro Detroit has had one of the highest jobless rates of any major urban area in the nation for the past 15 months. In July, the region's jobless rate was 7.4 percent, according to the state.

Nationally, the largest expansion of payrolls in three months meant 207,000 jobs were created and held the unemployment rate steady at 5 percent for the second consecutive month.

The increase in payroll jobs reflected hiring across a range of industries. Retailing, education and health services, financial activities and construction all expanded employment


So if the washington post is going to talk aboout unemployment in any area it should be about michigans unemployment problem.
 

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ShamMol

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You won't say you won't care, you just won't answer the question I posed which is directly relevant to the discussion, or lack thereof here?
 

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ShamMol said:
You won't say you won't care, you just won't answer the question I posed which is directly relevant to the discussion, or lack thereof here?
I choose who to respond to based on their posts to me. You and Arch Enemy don't want to just debate the issue but make me out the fool that is only a name he picked out for me and think I seek nothing but attention.

Quite the contrary. I cite where I got my information, the Washington Post and it was today's on line edition. Look it up and use what you find to garner your own attention but as for me responding to you when I start a thread with a serious concern and have someone come back to let me know they consider me a "little weird". Sorry, you were the first to bring it up so you are the first that can go get the facts and figures yourself. I told you where.

Oh and if you don't want to? I understand. You can use that against me too and I'll just roll with it. Hey, nothing personal.
:duel :cool:
 

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gordontravels said:
This is the headline in the Washington Post this morning. That's 4,000 more than the government was expecting. This is absolutely horrible news for the Bush Administration. Can't you hear it now? President Bush doesn't know what he's doing or he is deliberately causing people to lose their jobs. How can he do this to us? Three time the job losses than his own government envisioned. He's got to be planning and plotting behind closed doors to harm his fellow Americans. Many people usually just read the headline and the first few paragraphs and this story tells it all. The Bush Administration is punishing American workers.

Oh. Down in the article a little further it says that last month 207,000 jobs were created, the highest in 3 months. So what, right?
:duel :cool:
Yes, so what. If this was at all important or somehow a huge failure... the liberal media would be all over it. And I highly doubt the Pres is deliberately causing the US to lose jobs...
 

ShamMol

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Fine, since you don't want to help me, I guess I will have to look. I honestly just wanted to know that and tacked on an extra question that has caused you to discount everything I say. You should at least cite the article, which is what I do whenever I cite something.

Well, I can't access it from the website, so let's try and find the story elsewhere. There we go, CNN Money. CNN Article

"The Labor Department said the number of Americans filing new claims for unemployment benefits rose to 388,000 in the week ended Aug. 10 from a revised 382,000 the prior week. Economists, on average, expected 380,000 new claims, according to Briefing.com."

So, that isn't some insignificant number that we can just write off, is it gordontravels? No, that is why I wanted the information. Do you find that insignificant, more than 1/3 of a million people? The report also state that only 6,000 new jobs were added in the month...the upturn for the economy seems to be souring a bit.
 

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Which also puts the unemployment rate at 5% so President Bush and how he is handling of the economy is doing just fine. I remember quite well that during his first term people were touting President Clinton keeping the unemployment rate between 5.4 and 5% as if that were the benchmark. There was plenty of praise for what President Clinton had done. The difference is that our media reports a missed number while not mentioning that the figures are still very good. Why report that it is good if it reflects well on President Bush?

I remember Senators Kerry and Kennedy among others during the year before the last election that if the Bush Tax Cuts weren't repealed that unemployment would go through the roof. Don't you think they should be proud of the President now that he has gotten past 9/11 and it's effects on our economy and brought unemployment down to 5%?

By the way. It is easy to sign up for the NYT's or the Washington Post on line. At the Washington Post you then go to your preferences and chose Business News. They will send you their business section and it makes it easy to keep up. I thought I mentioned the Washington Post in the opening post and that it was today's article. Maybe not?
:duel :cool:
 

ShamMol

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It is common courtesy to cite sources whenever you say something like that gordontravels, I thought you would have known that considering how long you have been here. I do it, especially when I am starting a thread, and mind you, I don't start many.

Now onto what you said. It is true that unemployment is down, but those numbers are also misleading. For Clinton, that was a benchmark considering how bad things had gotten for the country and how bad the unemployment usually was, but I may just not have my history right as I cannot remember back to when I was 10 all the political stuff. Anyway, the numbers are encouraging, but also note that more people who go out and look for jobs just give up and start home businesses now than ever before. Now, this is great for Republicans and their touted entrepenureal (sp?) spirit, but honestly, for the first few months, and possibly, forever, that business will just be getting off the ground and they will not have steady income most likely.

The other thing to note is that for every job lost, it is more likely that the job that replaces it (aka the one that President Bush's economy created) is a minimum wage to very low-wage paying job which is likely not equivelant to what the previous job was.

If you need some sources, I can get them, but honestly, this stuff is being said on FOX as well as CNN, so I thought you might have already heard it before and just needed some prodding to remember it.

Again, I don't like those two senators, I actually just said that in another thread, but you had no reason to read that, so no fault to you. I think that the do no represent the party well anymore. Kennedy, when he started out, was great, but now, all that is shown of him is being a pompus airbag. That is partly the media's fault, but honestly, it is also his. He is a good guy, but sometimes...sometimes I wish we had someone quieter in his place.

I don't register for those things, I don't like the junk mail it gets me. That is why I get actual newspapers delivered daily. LA Times and NY Times.
 

gordontravels

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ShamMol said:
It is common courtesy to cite sources whenever you say something like that gordontravels, I thought you would have known that considering how long you have been here. I do it, especially when I am starting a thread, and mind you, I don't start many.

Now onto what you said. It is true that unemployment is down, but those numbers are also misleading. For Clinton, that was a benchmark considering how bad things had gotten for the country and how bad the unemployment usually was, but I may just not have my history right as I cannot remember back to when I was 10 all the political stuff. Anyway, the numbers are encouraging, but also note that more people who go out and look for jobs just give up and start home businesses now than ever before. Now, this is great for Republicans and their touted entrepenureal (sp?) spirit, but honestly, for the first few months, and possibly, forever, that business will just be getting off the ground and they will not have steady income most likely.

The other thing to note is that for every job lost, it is more likely that the job that replaces it (aka the one that President Bush's economy created) is a minimum wage to very low-wage paying job which is likely not equivelant to what the previous job was.

If you need some sources, I can get them, but honestly, this stuff is being said on FOX as well as CNN, so I thought you might have already heard it before and just needed some prodding to remember it.

Again, I don't like those two senators, I actually just said that in another thread, but you had no reason to read that, so no fault to you. I think that the do no represent the party well anymore. Kennedy, when he started out, was great, but now, all that is shown of him is being a pompus airbag. That is partly the media's fault, but honestly, it is also his. He is a good guy, but sometimes...sometimes I wish we had someone quieter in his place.

I don't register for those things, I don't like the junk mail it gets me. That is why I get actual newspapers delivered daily. LA Times and NY Times.
Yes you're right. I should have told you it was the Washington Post instead of the Washington Post and that it was today's article too maybe. I really considered that I had considered doing that and even actually did that out of consideration in the very first words of the post like you know, "This was the headline in the Washington Post this morning."

Now on to what you said. I thought the economy and unemployment was worse under President Bush prior to 9/11 and then for sure after that infamous day. We were told by the Democrats that "if" George W. Bush was elected we were finished. The tax cuts he wanted would kill the economy and jobs. We needed a Democrat in the White House.

Now as to you citing things: President Bush and minimum wage jobs? With our economy roaring? Housing up 14%+ during this year alone? Interest rates at historic lows? Unemployment at 5%?

Yes, I would like the sources for the minimum wage jobs and would also like your take on both the manufacturing index since 2001 (when Bush took over) and manufacturing construction figures. Those are the expenditures that American Manufacturers take out to build new facilities which preceeds the hiring of workers in skilled and simi-skilled jobs which I think you'll find in the last year of his first term to date. I'm sure you know that though since you have sources. The Manufacturing Index is where you want to look for some good stuff that will refute your minimum wage citing. Remember, don't take it from Bob Schieffer or Brian Williams. Don't rely on Fox or CNN because they won't tell you. Go get the facts they won't tell you. That will really enlighten you which I am sure you want. Manufacturing Index, yep, that'll do it.

Also if you sign up for the Business Section of the Washington Post you can choose in preferences not to get junk mail. Don't be so timid, they want you to subscribe.
:duel :cool: lil weird
 

ShamMol

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Well, in fact, the Dems were right about the tax cuts. They said that it would increase the wealthy's richs and decrease the poor's funds. The number of people who live in poverty has increased under this president-fact. The wealthiest americans have gotten subsequently wealthier thanks to tax breaks and refunds under this president-fact.

I don't know anything about the manufacturing index/manufacturing construction figures, perhaps you will enlighten me. I don't know where to get the facts. Do I just google Manufacturing Index? I did see on CNN Money that manufacturing productivity is up even if the jobs are not. I honestly don't have much experience on economics and rely on what my girlfriend tells me since she is a wiz at it.

Gains in service sector jobs accounted for nearly all the job gains in the month of july and usually, not always, those jobs are lower paying jobs that, let's face it, don't require much skill. You say our economy is roaring, and some signs are in your favor, but some ominous ones, like inflation is not. The unemployment can be explained away by the entrepenurial (sp?) thing that I said, but let's face it, your buying that is as likely as my thinking that the economy is doing just great.
 

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ShamMol said:
Well, in fact, the Dems were right about the tax cuts. They said that it would increase the wealthy's richs and decrease the poor's funds. The number of people who live in poverty has increased under this president-fact. The wealthiest americans have gotten subsequently wealthier thanks to tax breaks and refunds under this president-fact.

I don't know anything about the manufacturing index/manufacturing construction figures, perhaps you will enlighten me. I don't know where to get the facts. Do I just google Manufacturing Index? I did see on CNN Money that manufacturing productivity is up even if the jobs are not. I honestly don't have much experience on economics and rely on what my girlfriend tells me since she is a wiz at it.

Gains in service sector jobs accounted for nearly all the job gains in the month of july and usually, not always, those jobs are lower paying jobs that, let's face it, don't require much skill. You say our economy is roaring, and some signs are in your favor, but some ominous ones, like inflation is not. The unemployment can be explained away by the entrepenurial (sp?) thing that I said, but let's face it, your buying that is as likely as my thinking that the economy is doing just great.
I hope you will take two or three minutes to read this.

I note you are prefacing with "fact" and closing with "fact". Yet, you don't know anything about two of the most important indexes that track our economy. Even if you rely on CNN you would think they get their information from somewhere. Maybe they do and then put it in their own words so you don't hear about new manufacturing construction or how good the Bush Administration is really doing. Do you think Paula Zahn or Arron Brown want to give President Bush any praise?

However, with your limited knowledge in economics the Democrats say something and you say "fact". Isn't this a fact? If you want to creat jobs whether you are 3M or a guy opening a barber shop, you have to spend money. I believe the old saying is "it takes money to make money". To say that the tax cuts only benefited the rich when they were across the board and those in the lowest tax brackets were dropped from the payment rolls entirely is not to be quoting "fact". The Tax Cuts have led to our economy growing both from "capital expenditure" and "consumer spending". That's "fact".

I'm really wasting my time here. If your girlfriend is such a wiz at economics then simply let her get the indexes for you and see for yourself rather than having some Republican or Democrat or media outlet tell you. They will only give you part of it. If you have cable or satellite then tune in CNBC or Bloomberg and spend an hour a day for the next week or two and you will get actual figures and even some politics from both sides.

Tell your girlfriend to try http://firstgov.gov/ That should really help you both. She'll be able to find information directly from government officials that are government employees or bureaucrats if you will. These are folks who are both Republicans and Democrats or like me, not Republicans or Democrats and they report actual facts and figures. It's then that the Republicans, Democrats and our illustrious media twist and spin it to fit whatever agenda they have and call it informing or reporting to you.

Once you find this stuff for yourself then you can post "fact" to your hearts content. I do.
 

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Aaron said:
Now this is an email I recieved earlier today from my party's state chairman. In this email it shows an unemployment chart comparing the unemployment in Michigan my state and The United states in general and if you look at that chart Michigan is doing a lot worse then the U.S in general. So I'll just post the email for you and this is an artical from the Detroit news.



So if the washington post is going to talk aboout unemployment in any area it should be about michigans unemployment problem.
Michigans unemployment problem stems from GM and Ford not building competitive cares and unions demanding more and more to build them, NOT from inherent problems in the economy. The auto industry is booming in the South.
 

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Stinger said:
Michigans unemployment problem stems from GM and Ford not building competitive cares and unions demanding more and more to build them, NOT from inherent problems in the economy. The auto industry is booming in the South.
Well Aaron. Got three words for you. S U V. Out here in the country we need the one ton and 3/4 ton trucks for the ranch and farm. It's those city folks that like their Explorer or Hummer that have the hard time now. I like that Hummer commercial with the beautiful redhead driving through the city looking out the sunroof smiling confidently. They cut away before that worried look crosses her countenance as she realizes she has to find a place to park the mammoth vehicle. Parallel anyone?

The only thing that supported your economy over the last few months were sales of the less gas guzzling vehicles. Your manufacturing base has insisted for years that we want SUV's and the folks bought them. Your manufacturing base even gave them to us at the price the folks that built them could buy them for. I do believe those days are over. The SUV will still sell but in far fewer numbers.

It's one thing to look at the sign and see $1.49.9 per gallon and then see it when it's $2.64.9. Maybe you need to talk to your state government and ask them why they didn't think about what higher energy prices could do to your economy. People have been talking about the SUV for years. Your economy was built around it. Did you vote for these people? You know they are the accountable ones don't you?

There is plenty of oil in the world and in fact there are sufficient supplies right now. Fact: The United States hasn't had a refinery built here for more than 25 years while SUV'S were pushed by our car companies. You think they knew that? Don't you think they knew that the environmentalists made it so cost prohibitive for companies to provide more gasoline that maybe their high fuel using vehicles could suffer one day?

I think you need to go back to every President, Senator, Congressman, State Representatives and Corporate Head along with the Environmentalists and ask them these questions before you blame anyone. Then you probably will be able to blame them all and have done with it.
:duel :cool:
 

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Well our employment problem isn't just because of GM and ford. It has a lot to do with the fact that Governor Jennifer Granholm (who you'll find is a democrat and canadian raised in california) our governor has at one point in time during her administration was taxing businesses for providing health insurance! She has also Taxed componies to move into michigan in total making michigan a less business friendly state. Also before the GM and Ford problem we were having unemployment problems already as it is because companies like Fizer (etc.) have left our state. So to sum it al up in janurary our state was 7.5% unemployed. Last month we were the 2nd state ranked in unemployment and now we are number 1 in unemployment AGAIN! Now that is something you can't just say was the GM and Ford issue. Also gordon no I didn't vote for Granholm because I wasn't old enough to vote and still am not old enough to vote but I am still doing my part to get granholm out of ofice in the upcoming elections in 2006.
 

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Aaron said:
Well our employment problem isn't just because of GM and ford. It has a lot to do with the fact that Governor Jennifer Granholm (who you'll find is a democrat and canadian raised in california) our governor has at one point in time during her administration was taxing businesses for providing health insurance! She has also Taxed componies to move into michigan in total making michigan a less business friendly state. Also before the GM and Ford problem we were having unemployment problems already as it is because companies like Fizer (etc.) have left our state. So to sum it al up in janurary our state was 7.5% unemployed. Last month we were the 2nd state ranked in unemployment and now we are number 1 in unemployment AGAIN! Now that is something you can't just say was the GM and Ford issue. Also gordon no I didn't vote for Granholm because I wasn't old enough to vote and still am not old enough to vote but I am still doing my part to get granholm out of ofice in the upcoming elections in 2006.
Then I wish you the best of luck. Doesn't make a bit of difference to me whether someone is Democrat or Republican. It only means something when they do what they do. If that's good? Support them. If not - do what you are doing. A nobel cause I say. :duel :cool:
 
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