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Jimmy Carter: Punishing Innocent Palestinians is a Crime (1 Viewer)

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"In a newspaper published this weekend, former President Jimmy
Carter has pathetically attacked the United States and defended the
terrorist group, Hamas. Carter says we have engaged in a "crime" in our
tough stance against these terrorists and he calls America to task."

The following is a Public Document; In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, This document I submit is without profit. The included information is for research and educational purposes.

Jimmy Carter: Punishing Innocent Palestinians is a Crime

By
Jimmy Carter
7 May 2006

This article was published in the May 7, 2006, issue of the International Herald Tribune

Innocent Palestinian people are being treated like animals, with the presumption that they are guilty of some crime. Because they voted for candidates who are members of Hamas, the United States government has become the driving force behind an apparently effective scheme of depriving the general public of income, access to the outside world and the necessities of life.

Overwhelmingly, these are school teachers, nurses, social workers, police officers, farm families, shopkeepers, and their employees and families who are just hoping for a better life. Public opinion polls conducted after the January parliamentary election show that 80 percent of Palestinians still want a peace agreement with Israel based on the international road map premises. Although Fatah party members refused to join Hamas in a coalition government, nearly 70 percent of Palestinians continue to support Fatah's leader, Mahmoud Abbas, as their president.

It is almost a miracle that the Palestinians have been able to orchestrate three elections during the past 10 years, all of which have been honest, fair, strongly contested, without violence and with the results accepted by winners and losers. Among the 62 elections that have been monitored by us at the Carter Center, these are among the best in portraying the will of the people.

One clear reason for the surprising Hamas victory for legislative seats was that the voters were in despair about prospects for peace. With American acquiescence, the Israelis had avoided any substantive peace talks for more than five years, regardless of who had been chosen to represent the Palestinian side as interlocutor.

The day after his party lost the election, Abbas told me that his own struggling government could not sustain itself financially with their daily lives and economy so severely disrupted, and access from Palestine to Israel and the outside world almost totally restricted. They were already $900 million in debt and had no way to meet the payroll for the following month. The additional restraints imposed on the new government are a planned and deliberate catastrophe for the citizens of the occupied territories, in hopes that Hamas will yield to the economic pressure.

With all their faults, Hamas leaders have continued to honor a temporary cease-fire, or hudna, during the past 18 months, and their spokesman told me that this "can be extended for two, 10 or even 50 years if the Israelis will reciprocate." Although Hamas leaders have refused to recognize the state of Israel while their territory is being occupied, Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh has expressed approval for peace talks between Abbas and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel. He added that if these negotiations result in an agreement that can be accepted by Palestinians, then the Hamas position regarding Israel would be changed.

Regardless of these intricate and long-term political interrelationships, it is unconscionable for Israel, the United States and others under their influence to continue punishing the innocent and already persecuted people of Palestine. The Israelis are withholding approximately $55 million a month in taxes and customs duties that, without dispute, belong to the Palestinians. Although some Arab nations have allocated funds for humanitarian purposes to alleviate human suffering, the U.S. government is threatening the financial existence of any Jordanian or other bank that dares to transfer this assistance into Palestine.

There is no way to predict what will happen in Palestine, but it would be a tragedy for the international community to abandon the hope that a peaceful coexistence of two states in the Holy Land is possible. Like Egypt and all other Arab nations before the Camp David Accords of 1978, and the Palestine Liberation Organization before the Oslo peace agreement of 1993, Hamas has so far refused to recognize the sovereign state of Israel as legitimate, with a right to live in peace. This is a matter of great concern to all of us, and the international community needs to probe for an acceptable way out of this quagmire. There is no doubt that Israelis and Palestinians both want a durable two-state solution, but depriving the people of Palestine of their basic human rights just to punish their elected leaders is not a path to peace.

Former President Jimmy Carter is founder of the Carter Center, a nonprofit organization working for peace and health worldwide.
 
Yes, it sounds very reasonable to me, what Mr. Carter says here.

The Israelis are withholding approximately $55 million a month in taxes and customs duties that, without dispute, belong to the Palestinians. Although some Arab nations have allocated funds for humanitarian purposes to alleviate human suffering, the U.S. government is threatening the financial existence of any Jordanian or other bank that dares to transfer this assistance into Palestine.
It's sad, but true. But as far as I know, the European Union and the United States recently changed their mind about finance issues connected to Palestine.
 
ThePhoenix said:
Hamas leaders have refused to recognize the state of Israel while their territory is being occupied

So Israel is owned by Hamas now?
Statements like this do not give me much hope of diplomacy working out for them.
 
akyron said:
So Israel is owned by Hamas now?
Statements like this do not give me much hope of diplomacy working out for them.
The way I understand it, their territory means the West Bank, the Gaza Stripe and al-Quds(Jerusalem) here. At least this is what I read from statements given by Palestinian officials made in Moscow early this year. It was not clear if East-Jerusalem or the whole city was meant. By international law, only East-Jerusalem is occupied territory, I guess.
 
Seems to me that a group of people such as palestine (I wont use the word "country") that wants to be recognized by the world as a nation.....would be able to support itself.

The people of palestine need to look to their newly elected government for the funds they need.
 
Palestine is occupied, there are restrictions in economy and there were destructions in the past done by Israeli forces. And now Israel withholds tax and duty money of the Palestinian Authority. There are reasons, because the financial situation is so difficult now.
 
Volker said:
Palestine is occupied, there are restrictions in economy and there were destructions in the past done by Israeli forces. And now Israel withholds tax and duty money of the Palestinian Authority. There are reasons, because the financial situation is so difficult now.
Israel totally withdrew from Gaza in August of 2005. A total Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian portions of the West Bank will be accomplished by 2008. The city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and will not be bifurcated under any circumstance.

The Palestinian taxes collected by Israel are now held in escrow and will be released after Hamas agrees to account for its disbursal. After all, Hamas is still designated a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, Canada, Australia, and the European Union. Israel has no intention of allowing the tax monies it collects on behalf of Hamas to become a slush-fund for Hamas inspired terrorism. Unless and until Hamas amends its charter, it will remain a designated terrorist organization and global pariah.

As for Hamas and its bluster to observe a cease-fire... a suicide-bombing in Tel'Aviv less than a month ago killed eight civilians and wounded dozens. As for Mr. Carter, he once again demonstrates exactly why he was a one term president... and quite possibly the worst US president to ever 'occupy' that office.
 
If Jimmy Carter could have been president when the "innocent" German people elected the National Socialist Party, we know what would have happened, Winston Churchill would have looked the other way if he found out a German U-boat was in the vicinity of the presidential yacht.

Oops, I forgot, Jimmy would have sold the yacht, so Churchill would have just had to shoot Jimmy, and I am quite sure that America would have forgiven Churchill.
 
Tashah said:
Israel totally withdrew from Gaza in August of 2005. A total Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian portions of the West Bank will be accomplished by 2008. The city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and will not be bifurcated under any circumstance.
Yes, we will see, what the future brings. How many countries acknowledge Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, three?

Tashah said:
The Palestinian taxes collected by Israel are now held in escrow and will be released after Hamas agrees to account for its disbursal.
So this is one of the reasons for the financial situation of Palestinian Authority at the moment.

Tashah said:
observe a cease-fire... a suicide-bombing in Tel'Aviv less than a month ago killed eight civilians and wounded dozens.
As far as I know, this was not Hamas-related, therefore it was not a breach of the cease-fire.

Tashah said:
As for Mr. Carter, he once again demonstrates exactly why he was a one term president... and quite possibly the worst US president to ever 'occupy' that office.
Because of Camp David? Are you mad at at him, because Sinai is Egyptian again?
 
DivineComedy said:
Winston Churchill would have looked the other way if he found out a German U-boat was in the vicinity of the presidential yacht.
He would have done the same to every person, he wasn't a nice guy :roll:

Couldn't he have warned you before the Japanese went to Pearl Harbour?
 
Volker said:
Yes, we will see, what the future brings. How many countries acknowledge Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, three?
If I recall correctly, you and I have already been down this road Volker. Jerusalem is, and will continue to be the capital of Israel. Unless you envision taking it by force, the future will exist in perfect harmony with the present.

Volker said:
So this is one of the reasons for the financial situation of Palestinian Authority at the moment.
This is indeed one reason why Hamas is financially strapped. However, there are at least a half-dozen other overarching reasons. Go figure.

Volker said:
As far as I know, this was not Hamas-related, therefore it was not a breach of the cease-fire.
As the legitimate government of Palestine, Hamas is responsible for the actions of Palestinian terrorist organizations against another soverign nation that eminate from Palestinian territory. If Hamas cannot control the violence eminating from its territory then, in effect, it does not govern that territory responsibly now does it? Hamas was given the opportunity, but refused to condemn the perpetrators or initiate any law-enforcement attempts to arrest them.

Volker said:
Because of Camp David? Are you mad at at him, because Sinai is Egyptian again?
Lol. Carter's foibles are legion and legendary. Shall we begin with the Hostage Crisis? Sinai was returned to Egyptian sovereignty as a result of the Israel/Egypt Peace Treaty. During the intervening decades, there has never been any untoward incidents between Israel and Egypt. A comprehensive peace treaty like this... is a concept the Palestinians just can't seem to wrap their minds around.
 
Tashah said:
Jerusalem is, and will continue to be the capital of Israel. Unless you envision taking it by force, the future will exist in perfect harmony with the present.
This is an opinion. As far as I know, the status of the city was a subject of negotiations in the past and probably will be subject of negotiations in the future.

On October 6, 2002, Yasser Arafat signed the Palestinian Legislative Council's law making Al Quds "the eternal capital of Palestine."

International bodies such as the United Nations have condemned Israel's Basic Law concerning Jerusalem as a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention and therefore hold that the establishment of the city as Israel's capital is against international law. Consequently, countries have established embassies to Israel's government outside of Jerusalem. Similarly, missions to the Palestinian National Authority are at the insistence of Israel's government located outside of Jerusalem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern....22Occupied.22_vs._.22Disputed.22_territories

Tashah said:
This is indeed one reason why Hamas is financially strapped.
Well, ok, Hamas and Palestinian Authority is not the same and yesterday Israeli government decided to give the money to Palestinians.

Tashah said:
As the legitimate government of Palestine, Hamas is responsible for the actions of Palestinian terrorist organizations against another soverign nation that eminate from Palestinian territory. If Hamas cannot control the violence eminating from its territory then, in effect, it does not govern that territory responsibly now does it? Hamas was given the opportunity, but refused to condemn the perpetrators or initiate any law-enforcement attempts to arrest them.
The reaction of the Palestinian Authority was not helpful, even Mahmoud Abbas did better in this case.

Tashah said:
Lol. Carter's foibles are legion and legendary. Shall we begin with the Hostage Crisis?
Yes, Operation Eagle Claw was really stupid.

Tashah said:
Sinai was returned to Egyptian sovereignty as a result of the Israel/Egypt Peace Treaty. During the intervening decades, there has never been any untoward incidents between Israel and Egypt. A comprehensive peace treaty like this... is a concept the Palestinians just can't seem to wrap their minds around.
Well, Camp David and Oslo were not so bad in the beginning, there was more than one side responsible for not finding good solutions, I guess.
 
Mr. Carter, as always, is quite the fine writer, but he certainly lacks in logical argumentation in this one. If he is to present the notion that these Palestinians are "innocent", he only provided arguments to the contrary when he spoke in such glowing terms as to the freeness of their election of their terrorist government. I would think that if her were to truly make a case for the Palestinian people, he would have needed to show that Hamas somehow subverted the will of the people.

As to Hamas, itself, whatever hudna they may or may not be honoring is irrelevant, since a hudna is only a tactical construct, and represents no change in their game plan. Coupled with their interpretation of the practice of al takeyya, I certainly wouldn't put any stock in these hudnas. What counts here is what they actually represent, and their actual practices. They are a terrorist organization without question, and any attempt to discount this fact represents a politically motivated act of deception.

Mr Carter failed to present any case supporting the notion of innocence. Is a person innocent if they are consumed by hatred to the point they support murder? Genocide? When people indoctrinate their children in racist hatred, dress them up as little terrorists and parade them about with fake bombs strapped to their sides, are they innocent? When they create an enormous propaganda apparatus that demonizes jewish people night and day, are they innocent? When 70% support terrorist acts, are they innocent? My question to Mr. Carter would be this: As a people, of what are they innocent? Those who do not actively engage in terrorism are certainly innocent in that regard, but are they any more innocent now than the German people of 70 years ago who supported the Nazis and supported their aims, but did not actually load any Jewish people into cattle cars? This is the question Mr Carter failed to address, and it is a moral one. What does innocent mean, and when one speaks of innocence, is one speaking of select individuals or the people as a whole? I might agree with Mr Carter that there are select, individual Palestinians I would consider innocent. The difficulties in interpretation arise when switching from individuals to the group. When a populace freely elects a terrorist organization to lead them, and when this populace is driven by ethnic hatred to the point they support the actual terrorist acts from a philosophical standpoint, are they truly innocent?

I say a resounding no. No, as a people they are not innocent. Why the world acts as if they are children instead of adults and never responsible for anything they do is beyond me. Well, it isn't beyond me since I understand the appeal and sophistication of Arab propaganda and their role in it, but I don't understand why intelligent people such as Mr Carter play right along.
 
Arthur Fonzarelli said:
Wikipedia lists Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Did you notice the footnote sign there?

Capital: Jerusalem[1] <- this one? Follow it and you find an explanation.

Arthur Fonzarelli said:
It is common knowledge - not just simply ones opinion.
Gee, common knowledge, it's an opinion :mrgreen:
 
ProudAmerican said:
Seems to me that a group of people such as palestine (I wont use the word "country") that wants to be recognized by the world as a nation.....would be able to support itself.

The people of palestine need to look to their newly elected government for the funds they need.

Seems to me that Israel gets more aid then any country on earth.

Also seems to me Israel gained back control of that region by actions of others.

You want to talk about supporting yourself. you picked the wrong country.

As for the aid, this is tax money paid in by palestianians that Israel is now holding.
 
zymurgy said:
Seems to me that Israel gets more aid then any country on earth.

Also seems to me Israel gained back control of that region by actions of others.

You want to talk about supporting yourself. you picked the wrong country.

As for the aid, this is tax money paid in by palestianians that Israel is now holding.


What "seems" to you and actual truth are two different matters. You are certainly free to base your beliefs upon falsehoods, but falsehoods they are, nevertheless.

The Palestinian territories received 2 billion in world aid in 2004. THis dwarfs the amout of aid Israel receives.
 
Gardener said:
What "seems" to you and actual truth are two different matters. You are certainly free to base your beliefs upon falsehoods, but falsehoods they are, nevertheless.

The Palestinian territories received 2 billion in world aid in 2004. THis dwarfs the amout of aid Israel receives.

:rofl

The Israeli government is the largest recipient of US financial aid in the world, receiving over one-third of total US aid to foreign countries, even though Israel’s population comprises just .001% of the world’s population and has one the world’s higher per capita incomes.

Since 1949 the US has given Israel a total of $84,854,827,200. The interest costs born by US taxpayers on behalf of Israel are $49,937,000,000 – making the total amount of aid given to Israel since 1949 $134,791,507,200 (more than $134 billion).

The total cost of this financial aid to US tax payers per Israeli is $23,240.

Since 1992, the US has offered Israel an additional $2 billion in loan guarantees every year.

Nearly all past loans to Israel have been forgiven – leading Israel to claim that they have never defaulted on repayment of a US loan – with most loans made on the understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them.

In 1997 alone, the total of US grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion, i.e., $15,068,493 per day.
 
Volker said:
Did you notice the footnote sign there?

Capital: Jerusalem[1] <- this one? Follow it and you find an explanation.

Gee, common knowledge, it's an opinion :mrgreen:

While the footnote is quite compelling why does a well respected online encyclopedia list Jerusalem as the captial & not Tel Aviv?

very first words in the footnote...HHHhhhMMMmmm...
^ Jerusalem is the official capital...
...here's more...
...and the location of the presidential residence, government offices and the Knesset, Israel's Parliament. In 1980, the Knesset confirmed Jerusalem's status as the nation's "eternal and indivisible capital", by passing the Basic Law: Jerusalem — Capital of Israel...
...and the rest...
...However, the United Nations disapproved of this designation and considers Tel Aviv as Israel's capital. The international community argues that Israel's capture of the eastern half of Jerusalem from Jordan during the Six Day War was in violation of international law, and that the final issue of the status of Jerusalem will be determined in future Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. Therefore, nearly all countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv (CIA Factbook). See the article on Jerusalem for more information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_capitals
Tel Aviv not listed...

I must concede to it being opinion. However, it is also common knowledge.
 
Volker said:
This is an opinion. As far as I know, the status of the city was a subject of negotiations in the past and probably will be subject of negotiations in the future.
It is actually more than an opinion. Hamas has until the end of this year to recognize Israel and negotiate. If Hamas demurs, Israel intends to...

1) Set the permanent border.
2) Consolidate Israeli West Bank settlements into three large enclaves.
3) Retain the Jordan Ridge as a defensive necessity.
4) Consider the border dispute as settled and irrevocable.

Israel Says There is Deadline for Peace Talks [accessed 5.11.2006]

Volker said:
Well, ok, Hamas and Palestinian Authority is not the same and yesterday Israeli government decided to give the money to Palestinians.
Israel said it will release to Palestine the tax/customs money Israel collects on its behalf. $50 million dollars has been held in escrow by Israel pending international guarantees that fund disbursals be strictly monitored and dedicated to Palestinian administrative/humanitarian purposes.

Israel to allow Palestinian aid
Jerusalem
Israel said Wednesday it would accept a decision by international mediators to provide humanitarian aid to the Palestinians, provided the funds do not fall into the hands of the Hamas-led government.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002986287_wdig11.html - [accessed 5.11.2006]

On another financial note... Because of fiscal mismanagement and corruption, the Palestinian government has a serious new problem... it is 28 million dollars in arrears to Dor Energy, a private Israeli fuel concern.

Israeli Supplier Cuts Gas to Palestinians - [accessed 5.11.2006]
 
Tashah said:
It is actually more than an opinion. Hamas has until the end of this year to recognize Israel and negotiate. If Hamas demurs, Israel intends to...

1) Set the permanent border.
2) Consolidate Israeli West Bank settlements into three large enclaves.
3) Retain the Jordan Ridge as a defensive necessity.
4) Consider the border dispute as settled and irrevocable.

Israel Says There is Deadline for Peace Talks [accessed 5.11.2006]
Ok, so Mr. Ramon has a timetable for Palestinian Authority to comply with the preconditions for negotiations. This makes sense.

Tashah said:
Israel said it will release to Palestine the tax/customs money Israel collects on its behalf. $50 million dollars has been held in escrow by Israel pending international guarantees that fund disbursals be strictly monitored and dedicated to Palestinian administrative/humanitarian purposes.
Yes, this should be a solution both sides can live with.

Tashah said:
On another financial note... Because of fiscal mismanagement and corruption, the Palestinian government has a serious new problem... it is 28 million dollars in arrears to Dor Energy, a private Israeli fuel concern.
I wonder if paying this bill can be seen as humanitarian purpose, too. Well, I think so.
 
Volker said:
Ok, so Mr. Ramon has a timetable for Palestinian Authority to comply with the preconditions for negotiations. This makes sense.
In essence Volker, Israel has adopted this stance:

1) Israel accepts the two state solution and recognizes Palestine as a soverign entity governed by a democratically elected organization.
2) Since 1967 the official border between Israel and Palestine has been in dispute.
3) Israel has come to the logical conclusion that the border dispute is an aberration that cannot and must not endure for perpetuity.
4) Israel is willing to enter into negotiations to not only settle the border dispute, but to arrive at a comprehensive and lasting peace accord.

Now for the problems:

1) Hamas remains a designated and active terrorist organization.
2) Hamas has not evidenced the ability to cease attacks upon Israel or to disarm armed organizations that are not part and parcel of the official Palestinian government/police/military.
3) Hamas has stated that it will not amend its charter which calls for the destruction of Israel. Unless it does so, it cannot be considered a viable partner in any effort to secure a lasting peace.
4) Hamas does not recognize Israeli sovereignty. Unless it does so, it cannot officially come to terms with a nation that essentially 'does not exist'.
5) Hamas has stated that it will not honor previous agreements brokered between Israel and the PA of Arafat and Abbas. This implies that the aim of Hamas is to begin again at square one. Understandably, Israel will not accede to this implicut and unrealistic scenario.
6) How can Israel officially negotiate with a designated terrorist organization? This is against Israeli law.
7) Israel will not negotiate the bifurcation of Jerusalem. Since ancient times the City of David has been the capital of Israel and it shall remain so.
8) Israel will not cede the high-ground of the Jordan Ridge. From this elevated and strategic geographical feature, major Israeli cities are vulnerable to rocket, mortar, and artillary attack.
9) Israel will not allow Palestinian overflights of its territory for security reasons and insists on a single Palestinian air-corridor between Gaza and the West Bank.
10) Israel would seek guarantees that Jewish pilgrims have safe passage to historically important Jewish shrines such as in Hebron (Shechem) and Jericho.
11) Due to the passage of decades, the Palestine of 1967 no longer exists and it is impractical to pretend otherwise.
12) Israel would seek to retain three large Jewish enclaves in the West Bank.
13) For security reasons and to ensure peace, Israel would seek admittance to the NATO Alliance and can invoke Article Five if attacked. Israel is already in compliance with NATO economic/military standards.
 
Yes, sounds fair to me.
Tashah said:
7) Israel will not negotiate the bifurcation of Jerusalem. Since ancient times the City of David has been the capital of Israel and it shall remain so.
11) Due to the passage of decades, the Palestine of 1967 no longer exists and it is impractical to pretend otherwise.
This is kinda funny, if it's good for the case, then it's ok to go 1900 years back in history, if not, 40 years are to much.
 
Volker said:
Yes, sounds fair to me.
This is kinda funny, if it's good for the case, then it's ok to go 1900 years back in history, if not, 40 years are to much.
I wasn't engaged in legitimizations Volker, just listing some of the pressing and lingering problems inherent in the Israeli/Palestinian dispute.
 

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