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Jewish representatives shout down Arab representative in the Israeli Knesset.

L0neW0lf

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Really despicable that an elected speaker in the Israeli Knesset of all places isn't even allowed to speak by Disruptors.
In this case by representatives of the high percentage (statistically) of racist Jews in Israel.
the unfortunate situation in Israel and their supposed support of freedom of speech as a whole.

Shameful and unconscienable The Knesset couldn't do anything about it.

YouTube - knesset members attacks haneen zoabi after free gaza fortilla

if you are wondering where you've seen this before, yes yes what inspired me to create this was mbig's thread
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...-shout-down-israeli-ambassador-uc-irvine.html


What you'll find there is multiple hilarious (when compared to this) comments from Israelis and pro Israelis about free speech, the difference though that in the university they were able to control the situation with all the kids and all.
 

Apocalypse

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Really despicable that an elected speaker in the Israeli Knesset of all places isn't even allowed to speak by Disruptors.
In this case by representatives of the high percentage (statistically) of racist Jews in Israel.
the unfortunate situation in Israel and their supposed support of freedom of speech as a whole.

Shameful and unconscienable The Knesset couldn't do anything about it.

YouTube - knesset members attacks haneen zoabi after free gaza fortilla

if you are wondering where you've seen this before, yes yes what inspired me to create this was mbig's thread
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...-shout-down-israeli-ambassador-uc-irvine.html


What you'll find there is multiple hilarious (when compared to this) comments from Israelis and pro Israelis about free speech, the difference though that in the university they were able to control the situation with all the kids and all.
Well first of all there's clearly nothing racist here.
A race was never brought up, and the opposition is to her political opinions.
If she was a Jewish MK with such political opinions she would get the same reaction.

Secondly the handling of the incident by the Knesset chairman was completely appropirate.
Those who've distrupted her speech were escorted out of the room by security, and she did get to speak in the end.
While this is certainly something that should be opposed, there's no need to blow it out of proportions, no harm was done, it's still far away from being the same situation as in the parliaments of Turkey, Ukraine, Taiwan etc.
 

L0neW0lf

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Well first of all there's clearly nothing racist here.
A race was never brought up, and the opposition is to her political opinions.
If she was a Jewish MK with such political opinions she would get the same reaction.
They called her a terrorist multiple times and joked about searching her for knives, if she was Jewish they wouldn't have shouted that and I highly doubt they would have shouted her down, but then again if that is the kind of freedom of speech you are accustomed to in the Knesset am not sure how you (or any Israeli/pro Israeli) can complain about some kids heckling a speaker in some university.

Do you agree or not that, given the place and nature of it, it was much worse than the kids' incident?
 

Apocalypse

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They called her a terrorist multiple times and joked about searching her for knives, if she was Jewish they wouldn't have shouted that and I highly doubt they would have shouted her down
I completely disagree, she would have been called that if she was Jewish too - no doubt about it.
but then again if that is the kind of freedom of speech you are accustomed to in the Knesset am not sure how you (or any Israeli/pro Israeli) can complain about some kids heckling a speaker in some university.

Do you agree or not that, given the place and nature of it, it was much worse than the kids' incident?
In this case freedom of speech was not violated. She was allowed to speak.
In the other incident freedom of speech was violated. The speaker was not allowed to speak.

Yes, it's as simple as that.
 

L0neW0lf

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In this case freedom of speech was not violated. She was allowed to speak.
In the other incident freedom of speech was violated. The speaker was not allowed to speak.
Was she allowed back again to speak those 5 mins you mean? because in both cases the speakers were heckled by constant shouting, hecklers got kicked by security, speakers continued.
the difference being, those weren't kids, they were elected officials.
 

joergan

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When people like Tom Tancredo and Bibi Netanyahu visit college campuses, and the leftist student trash shout them down and disrupts their speeches, do you demand that they stop?
 

L0neW0lf

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When people like Tom Tancredo and Bibi Netanyahu visit college campuses, and the leftist student trash shout them down and disrupts their speeches, do you demand that they stop?
Yes, but in cases like the latter I wouldn't be dignifying him with my presence in the first place, if other racists do then by all means.

when bullying people out of their freedom of speech extends to places like the Knesset though, I expect serious consequences. After all, they were behaving like 13 year old kids.

.
 

Iron Yank

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Yes, but in cases like the latter I wouldn't be dignifying him with my presence in the first place, if other racists do then by all means.

when bullying people out of their freedom of speech extends to places like the Knesset though, I expect serious consequences. After all, they were behaving like 13 year old kids.
So then how many Jews get to even participate in the governing process of most of the muslim countries?
That is the ones that even allow Jews to live inside there borders...

I think you know the answer to that....

Maybe you could also expand on your vast knowledge here & also tell us about the christians that live in muslim countries and that the populations of them are in steady decline over the last few decades...why is that anyway?

Israel is populated with Jews of different skin colors & this really has nothing to do with racism and is more about
religous differences than race. Compared to the Arab countries the Jews are quite a bit more tolerant than any Muslim country I could even think of. At least Israel lets there religous minorites participate in government. If your a Jew or a Christian living in a Islamic country your lucky you dont get your throat cut much less get shouted down while speaking in a govermental body.

No comparison here & not even sure why you felt the need to create a thread on this considering the double standard here.
 

L0neW0lf

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So then how many Jews get to even participate in the governing process of most of the muslim countries?
Not relevant.

I think you know the answer to that....
Actually I don't, what I remember though is that Morocco's king still maintains a Jewish advisor but again irrelevant.

As obviously 'Muslim' countries do not have an entry ticket to the 'free world' and non of them are the 'only democracy' in the ME.

Maybe you could also expand on your vast knowledge here & also tell us about the christians that live in muslim countries and that the populations of them are in steady decline over the last few decades...why is that anyway?
again, irrelevant.

Israel is populated with Jews of different skin colors & this really has nothing to do with racism and is more about
religous differences than race. Compared to the Arab countries the Jews are quite a bit more tolerant than any Muslim country I could even think of. At least Israel lets there religous minorites participate in government.
If your a Jew or a Christian living in a Islamic country your lucky you dont get your throat cut much less get shouted down while speaking in a govermental body.
Irrelevant and quite a statement to make without backing up without at least some evidence. But again, doesn't matter much so don't bother.

No comparison here & not even sure why you felt the need to create a thread on this considering the double standard here.
If you actually read the OP you'd realize the comparison wasn't between Muslim countries and Israel. So you can go read it again, and if you have anything relevant to say, say it.
 

Tashah

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As obviously 'Muslim' countries do not have an entry ticket to the 'free world' and non of them are the 'only democracy' in the ME.
Let me see if I understand this correctly.

ME Muslim countries are exempt from any criticism because their repressive policies are both ingrained and ordained. Is that about right?

Just this past week Egypt stated that it will strip citizenship from Egyptians married to Israelis.

A highly repressive and draconian state action. Quite reminiscent of the Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany.

But this sort of intrusive repression can be glossed over because Egypt isn't Israel.

Okay. Gotcha.
 

L0neW0lf

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Let me see if I understand this correctly.

ME Muslim countries are exempt from any criticism because their repressive policies are both ingrained and ordained. Is that about right?
Not really, what I obviously meant is that it is already established that these puppet governments were stupid and trying to bring them up to try and defend Israel in something that is no way related is irrelevant.

Now, if you want to go back to the thread's topic, what do you think about your representatives' bullying of a fellow speaker from her freedom of speech in the Knesset?

isn't it worse than some kids trying to heckle a university speaker?

I mean in that thread people were on about how outrageous it was, so I simply want to hear your opinion here about this incident (ie; the answer is not Egypt does this or Jordan did that), personally i think its more outrageous and I think for acting unprofessionally like kids, they require some discipline.
 

Tashah

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Not really, what I obviously meant is that it is already established that these puppet governments were stupid and trying to bring them up to try and defend Israel in something that is no way related is irrelevant.
I've seen numerous stories and pics of parliamentarians actually throwing punches and chairs at each other.

Don't give us this little-miss-innocent-is-being-picked-on crap.

Here's the deal. If ya sling mud... wear a poncho.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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From what I have read, this was the issue of a Knesset member acting in an inappropriate way and entering a closed military zone. Apparently, the Israeli Attorney General is examining the situation to determine if legal action is warranted and the degree of violations that the Knesset member may have. Any attempts to make this a racial issue are unfounded and prejudicial in their own right. This is a legal issue. Nothing more.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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I've seen numerous stories and pics of parliamentarians actually throwing punches and chairs at each other.

Don't give us this little-miss-innocent-is-being-picked-on crap.

Here's the deal. If ya sling mud... wear a poncho.
Russia, China, Japan, just to name a few. Back in the 1800's in Congress, one Senator took a gun and shot at another Senator. What happened is really not that uncommon. The issue is that making it a racial issue, is racist in and of itself.
 

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I've seen numerous stories and pics of parliamentarians actually throwing punches and chairs at each other.











Never happened in Israel.
 
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L0neW0lf

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Any attempts to make this a racial issue are unfounded and prejudicial in their own right. This is a legal issue. Nothing more.
She had had multiple death threats, 500 Israelis even started a Facebook group for her execution.

If she was a Jewish Israeli she wouldn't have had any of those, and she wouldn't have been called a terrorist.

So to sum up the Israeli position so far, denying a parliament speaker elected to make her voice (and the ones she represent) freedom of speech, is not as outrageous as some kids shouting at some university speaker.

Will obviously so long as what he/she is going to be pro Israeli ;)
 

CaptainCourtesy

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She had had multiple death threats, 500 Israelis even started a Facebook group for her execution.

If she was a Jewish Israeli she wouldn't have had any of those, and she wouldn't have been called a terrorist.

So to sum up the Israeli position so far, denying a parliament speaker elected to make her voice (and the ones she represent) freedom of speech, is not as outrageous as some kids shouting at some university speaker.

Will obviously so long as what he/she is going to be pro Israeli ;)
None of what you are saying proves any of your absurd accusations. She potentially violated parameters of her position as a member of the Knesset. It is irrelevant as to her ethnic background. Further, name calling has nothing to do with legal treatment, and therefore has nothing to do with government sanctioned discrimination. You're throwing crap against a wall to see if it sticks, and it isn't.
 

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Will obviously so long as what he/she is going to be pro Israeli ;)
I would think it goes without saying that an elected official of ANY country should be "pro" that country.
 

digsbe

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This woman deserved to be heckled, although I do think the MKs should have let her finish and then brutally demolish her opinion/arguments. How dare this woman say "all immoral people support the blockade" and that "people with morals oppose it." She had her right to speak, but her speech itself was classic flame baiting at a state level. I saw no racism towards her for being Arab, but I saw judgement and discrimination within her speech.

Also, is this woman even an Israeli citizen? She says "You know the whole world is against you" as if she is saying she isn't part of Israel. She talks as if she has no loyalty or allegiance to her nation and uses her elected spot in government to diminish her country.
 
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mbig

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Really despicable that an elected speaker in the Israeli Knesset of all places isn't even allowed to speak by Disruptors.
In this case by representatives of the high percentage (statistically) of racist Jews in Israel.
the unfortunate situation in Israel and their supposed support of freedom of speech as a whole.

Shameful and unconscienable The Knesset couldn't do anything about it.

YouTube - knesset members attacks haneen zoabi after free gaza fortilla

if you are wondering where you've seen this before, yes yes what inspired me to create this was mbig's thread
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...-shout-down-israeli-ambassador-uc-irvine.html


What you'll find there is multiple hilarious (when compared to this) comments from Israelis and pro Israelis about free speech, the difference though that in the university they were able to control the situation with all the kids and all.
Since it was my string you say inspired you, and Not being hypocritical... I agree with you... her being shouted down was Unjust.

I disagree about the use of 'racist' in general, but again agree those people who said she had a knife were probably making racist comments.
Tho I don't know the context.. perhaps her previous public utterances within those within the Knesset would lead some to say what they did.
Our Israeli posters would know better than I.

You have to understand also I think, Israel is in a rather unique position in the world.
It has a significant portion of it's population "expressing views inimical" (see below) to it's very existence.
In Simple terms, treasonous.
Imagine if in the USA we not only had an illegal immigrant population, but 20% who wanted 'Aztlan', the 'Greater Mexico' of old not ruled by an 'illegimate Anglo' govt.

Brigitte Gabriel/Lebanese Arab Israeli.. now a US citizen in her speech at Columbia University 2005:
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/21693
"....The lies that Arab society tried to teach me as a child in Lebanon are the same as those spread under the guise of academic freedom on the Morningside campus of Columbia.
During a recent speech at a Columbia Law school forum, Professor Massad repeated 24 times in a half-hour that,
"Israel is a racist Jewish apartheid oppressive state."
His exercise in academic freedom ignores the facts.

As a Middle Easterner brought up on this patent "Israel is a racist state" propaganda, I discovered it is total hate inspired nonsense. I've seen with my own eyes what kind of society Israel is.
I consider Israel to be one of the most multi-racial and multi-cultural countries in the world.
There are no racial restrictions on becoming a citizen of Israel like there are in many Arab countries.
Remember, Jews can't live in the neighboring Arab Kingdom of Jordan or in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
Israel's multi-racial society belies the acusation of 'racism'.
More than 100 different countries of the world are represented in the population of Israel. Consider how the Israeli government spent tens of millions of dollars airlifting more than 40,000 black Ethiopian Jews to Israel in 1984 and 1991. Since 2001 Israel has reached out to help others taking in non-Jewish refugees from Lebanon, the Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, Vietnam, Liberia, Congo and even Bosnian Muslims.

How many such refugees have the 22 states in the Arab league taken in? The Arab world won't even give their own Palestinian refugees citizenship in their host countries!
Over one million Arabs are full Israel citizens.
An Arab sits on the Supreme Court of Israel. There are Arab political parties expressing views inimical to the State of Israel sitting in the Knesset, Israel's parliament.
Women are equal partners in Israel and have complete human rights.
Professor Massad... show me an Arab nation with a Jew in their government.
Show me an Arab country with half as many Jewish citizens as Israel has Arab citizens. I'll borrow some of your academic freedom now and say that Arab nations are the real racist and oppressive states...."
And would also like to point out; even black Muslim Sudanese refugees fled [perilously] through Muslim Racist Egypt to get to free Jewish Israel.
 
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ido_

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The fact that we have an Arab woman with Masters degree as a Knesset member just shows how Israel gives equal rights to its citizens.
And yes, Jews are getting death threats two, hell one was even murdered, heard about Rabin? How about Ehud Barak or Arik Sharon who recieved death threats?
We have our share of assholes, even in the Knesset (mainly in the Knesset) but we are far far away from being a racist society.
 

L0neW0lf

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Interesting how only few Israelis have a problem with their representatives shouting down a 'colleague'
how hard is it for an Israeli to say, hey what they did was wrong there need to be some disciplinary measures taken? so far it seems only 3 have a problem with it the rest are trying to show how it is normal (and I agree).

After all she is only put there so an Israeli can say hey
"The fact that we have an Arab woman with Masters degree as a Knesset member just shows how Israel gives equal rights to its citizens."

I couldn't care less what Egypt does or what Gabriel thinks, subject here is Israel so you can stick with it if you want.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Interesting how only few Israelis have a problem with their representatives shouting down a 'colleague'
how hard is it for an Israeli to say, hey what they did was wrong there need to be some disciplinary measures taken? so far it seems only 3 have a problem with it the rest are trying to show how it is normal (and I agree).
I don't see this as any more of a problem than if an Israeli member of the Knesset shouted down another Israeli member of the Knesset. You are trying to make this a racial issue, which it is not.

After all she is only put there so an Israeli can say hey
"The fact that we have an Arab woman with Masters degree as a Knesset member just shows how Israel gives equal rights to its citizens."
And that is nothing more than your own unsubstantiated bias. Prove it if you can.

I couldn't care less what Egypt does or what Gabriel thinks, subject here is Israel so you can stick with it if you want.
And if the subject is Israel, unless you have some evidence of bias in the Israeli Knesset, you're demonstrating nothing than your OWN bias.
 
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